Reversing heart hypertrophy/plaque: Can it be done?

[Colosseus]

Here's one :

"Effects of l-carnitine administration on left ventricular remodeling after acute anterior myocardial infarction"

**broken link removed**

I think its 9 grams IV during the first week followed by 600mg orally per day afterwards.

 

[mountaindog1]

gotcha - thank you. I was going to use it for fat loss, but I just don't have the balls to do 2 grams at once, so I just do 600 mgs. Even at this dose, I do feel really "healthy" and never really get out of breath. Interesting. I had a few friends today actually that told me I looked like I got 10 years younger.

JM

 

[Colosseus]

Here's another supporting abstract I found a while ago:

"Effects of L-carnitine treatment on left ventricular function and erythrocyte superoxide dismutase activity in patients with ischemic cardiomyopathy"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10856733/

Carnitine increases plasma SOD and improved LVEF in the study.

 

[LK3]

Here's another supporting abstract I found a while ago:

"Effects of L-carnitine treatment on left ventricular function and erythrocyte superoxide dismutase activity in patients with ischemic cardiomyopathy"

The effects of L-carnitine treatment on... - PubMed Mobile - NCBI

Carnitine increases plasma SOD and improved LVEF in the study.

why not just take SOD?

 

[Colosseus]

I believe the issue would be the transport kinetics of administering exogenous SOD. Vs. A constant endogenous elevation in plasma as well as red cell activity with L-carnitine use.
If I recall correctly SOD levels do increase Lymph to Plasma Ratio in a 90min window after IV bolus but they quickly return to normal endogenous levels within 3 hours.
So you could supply SOD every 3 hours oral bio availability being a factor Or inject L-carnitine or do both for that matter if free radicals keep you up at night ;-).

 

[deke77]

You can't reverse enlargement of the heart. You can do things already mentioned to reduce plaque buildup and inflammation. If it's to the point of being a concern and you are still on juice, stop. No ifs, no counterpoints, just stop.

 

[nothuman]

You can't reverse enlargement of the heart. You can do things already mentioned to reduce plaque buildup and inflammation. If it's to the point of being a concern and you are still on juice, stop. No ifs, no counterpoints, just stop.

Most signs point to you being wrong about this one. Some people can, others can't. Believe me, I've googled this to death.

 

[0893]

You can't reverse enlargement of the heart. You can do things already mentioned to reduce plaque buildup and inflammation. If it's to the point of being a concern and you are still on juice, stop. No ifs, no counterpoints, just stop.

I just did a quick google and got this off mayo clinic:

"An enlarged heart (cardiomegaly) isn't a disease, but rather a symptom of another condition.

The term "cardiomegaly" most commonly refers to an enlarged heart seen on a chest X-ray. Other tests are then needed to diagnose the condition causing your enlarged heart.

You may develop an enlarged heart temporarily because of a stress on your body, such as pregnancy, or because of a medical condition, such as the weakening of the heart muscle, coronary artery disease, heart valve problems or abnormal heart rhythms.

An enlarged heart may be treatable by correcting the cause. Treatment for an enlarged heart can include medications, medical procedures or surgery."


So I guess it IS possible.

 

[Colosseus]

Heart enlargement can also be an adaptation. I would be willing to bet most if not all powerlifters and strongmen have enlarged hearts as an adaptation to the physical stress. The heart is infact muscle tissue and subject to anabolism as well as atrophy regardless of substance useage. In many cases heart enlargement isn't really a detriment to health. Now plaque and scarring, that is another story.

 

[nothuman]

Heart enlargement can also be an adaptation. I would be willing to bet most if not all powerlifters and strongmen have enlarged hearts as an adaptation to the physical stress. The heart is infact muscle tissue and subject to anabolism as well as atrophy regardless of substance useage. In many cases heart enlargement isn't really a detriment to health. Now plaque and scarring, that is another story.

When I think heart enlargement, I am not thinking LVH. We all know that's not a big deal most of the time for us. It's those other measurements that tend to be slightly high out of range when it gets a little concerning. I don't know if it's a sure thing that all those powerlifters and strongman get that. LVH sure, but who cares about that.

Even plaque can likely be reversed to some degree. However, that's probably not the case if there is enough plaque already there.

 

[heavydeadlifts]

You can't reverse enlargement of the heart. You can do things already mentioned to reduce plaque buildup and inflammation. If it's to the point of being a concern and you are still on juice, stop. No ifs, no counterpoints, just stop.

Are you retarded? Of course you can reverse it in most cases...just remove the antagonizing variable...

 

[nothuman]

What I wonder is whether a decent amount of weight loss is necessary for reversal to happen. Even if one isn't fat to begin with. Thoughts?

 

[gabe walker]

You can't reverse enlargement of the heart. You can do things already mentioned to reduce plaque buildup and inflammation. If it's to the point of being a concern and you are still on juice, stop. No ifs, no counterpoints, just stop.

Wrong.

 

[IRONWERKS123]

Chelation therapy. I was a mess from smoking, drinking and too many carbs 10 years ago. Went through about 6 months of once weekly chelation and my arterys were bacically cleared. All tests before and after (stress echo) conclusive. Even my cardiologist was puzzled. Fat by the way is fine. Drop the carbs. High carbs cause extreme raise in triglycerides. so does alcohol (sugar)

Rick

 

[gabe walker]

Anything that increases mitochondrial biogenesis, function, efficiency etc..
Short list:
Ubiquinol not coQ10
ALCAR/ALA
PQQ
Oxaloacetate
And .. Telmesartin (partial ppar gamma agonist > pgc-1 a agonist)
Or any ppar gamma agonist-glitazones, or any other ppar gamma, ppar alpha- fibrates, ERR agonists (flavones,isoflavones, etc..) that up regulate pgc-1a, EGCG, Quercitin, reaveratrol, curcumin, pterostilbene, on and on, etc. blah blah,

Metformin as well, different mech=mito efficiency

 

[nothuman]

Call me crazy but part of me thinks low dose DNP would even help

 

[nothuman]

Chelation therapy. I was a mess from smoking, drinking and too many carbs 10 years ago. Went through about 6 months of once weekly chelation and my arterys were bacically cleared. All tests before and after (stress echo) conclusive. Even my cardiologist was puzzled. Fat by the way is fine. Drop the carbs. High carbs cause extreme raise in triglycerides. so does alcohol (sugar)



Rick

How low were your carbs? Did you have any other than veggies or fruits?

 

[gabe walker]

Call me crazy but part of me thinks low dose DNP would even help

And we have a winner..... you cray cray, not ... DNP = calorie mimetic > pgc-1 transcription thus mito what???

Of course dose dependent....

 

[nothuman]

And we have a winner..... you cray cray, not ... DNP = calorie mimetic > pgc-1 transcription thus mito what???

Of course dose dependent....

Lol, well it causes rapid weight loss. Go low dose and consume carbs from only veggies/fruits and then come off when desired weight is reached, while maintaining that diet. I don't really know what I'm talking about, but it makes sense to me in a strange way.

 

[LK3]

I believe the issue would be the transport kinetics of administering exogenous SOD. Vs. A constant endogenous elevation in plasma as well as red cell activity with L-carnitine use.
If I recall correctly SOD levels do increase Lymph to Plasma Ratio in a 90min window after IV bolus but they quickly return to normal endogenous levels within 3 hours.
So you could supply SOD every 3 hours oral bio availability being a factor Or inject L-carnitine or do both for that matter if free radicals keep you up at night ;-).

or you could inject SOD...

been playin with this for oh.... almost 10 years... lol

in all honestly L-carnitine seems pretty low on the totem pole.