Share your labs of Tren’s effect on igf1 levels from hgh

[Parabolic33]

I’m looking to gather some group data to see from people who were using hgh and a specific dose who usually get a specific igf1 reading. Did trenbolone affect that for you?
I’m bringing this up now, because I’ve been testing out in the 270-290 ng/ml igf1 level and have been not using hgh, only 12.5mg mk677 at night

-4 weeks before recent blood test added 560 Tren E per week

-9 days before recent blood test added 7.9iu hgh split 3x daily intra muscular.

-My igf1 is exactly 272 currently on 7.9iu hgh

-It was at 275 months ago in March just taking mk677, Test and Deca but without tren in the mix. No hgh during this time

Is it tren that’s preventing my igf1 from coming up ? Or could it be using my gh intramuscular?

 

[slesh]

I’m no expert on Tren and it’s affect on IGF - that’s a @Type-IIx question which I believe he has addressed in the past. However I’m confident in saying it shouldn’t matter if you’re injecting IM, SubQ, IV, etc…

 

[Mufasa123]

3.5 to 4 ius I think I was low to mid 300s no tren. On 300-350mg of tren a the same dose of hgh products a 170. This is rough from memory but generally right in magnitude.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I’m looking to gather some group data to see from people who were using hgh and a specific dose who usually get a specific igf1 reading. Did trenbolone affect that for you?
I’m bringing this up now, because I’ve been testing out in the 270-290 ng/ml igf1 level and have been not using hgh, only 12.5mg mk677 at night

-4 weeks before recent blood test added 560 Tren E per week

-9 days before recent blood test added 7.9iu hgh split 3x daily intra muscular.

-My igf1 is exactly 272 currently on 7.9iu hgh

-It was at 275 months ago in March just taking mk677, Test and Deca but without tren in the mix. No hgh during this time

Is it tren that’s preventing my igf1 from coming up ? Or could it be using my gh intramuscular?

Post in thread 'TRENBOLONE and igf1 levels - Blood tests'
https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...d-igf1-levels-blood-tests.166733/post-3062493

 

[Alzadosghost]

A little off topic here but it is interesting. Mariusz pudgianowski used to run an hgh infusion through iv along with igf1 and epo. Evidently it was a very effective method. This is not a rumor. I actually know someone that witnessed it firsthand during WSM . I always wanted to try it but the thought of mainlining anything freaks me out.

 

[cage99]

A little off topic here but it is interesting. Mariusz pudgianowski used to run an hgh infusion through iv along with igf1 and epo. Evidently it was a very effective method. This is not a rumor. I actually know someone that witnessed it firsthand during WSM . I always wanted to try it but the thought of mainlining anything freaks me out.

Man, that cat was a beast in the strongman competitions. It seemed like if Mariusz was competing then the others should just stay home. He was that dominant!

Cage

 

[Parabolic33]

3.5 to 4 ius I think I was low to mid 300s no tren. On 300-350mg of tren a the same dose of hgh products a 170. This is rough from memory but generally right in magnitude.

Oh hell yea. This is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. I appreciate you sharing that.

Regardless, for me anyways I’m getting such an obvious visual change, as well as weight on the scale change since adding the gh in that it makes sense to me that serum level isn’t everything. Like a greater serum
Level of Igf1 is probably better in the exact same qual situation, but that’s not what this is, and Tren is obviously making igf1 more effective some how or doing something with it.

 

[Mufasa123]

Oh hell yea. This is exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. I appreciate you sharing that.

Regardless, for me anyways I’m getting such an obvious visual change, as well as weight on the scale change since adding the gh in that it makes sense to me that serum level isn’t everything. Like a greater serum
Level of Igf1 is probably better in the exact same qual situation, but that’s not what this is, and Tren is obviously making igf1 more effective some how or doing something with it.

I think type II said something like the decrease in igf is due to tren using it. Not something he or others were concerned about. Glad it was helpful. BTW tren dose was 350mg of tren a so nothing mega to get that igf impact.

 

[ALPHALIFEFITNESS]

I don't remember my #'s. But I know my gh serum test and igf was way low on 6iu a day (10iu) before test when I was on tren, thought my sourcegave me shit GH. There is a study and post here showing that even though the levels are lower on tren, it's because the tren makes it better used. Also a podcast on Anabolic mind goes over it

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Interesting topic that multiple people have shown on the forums. But I also feel like we know that just because ones IGF score is lower, it doesn’t mean a thing in terms of GH’s effects. Look at Chase Irons’ IGF score on 18iu of Seros…it was like 200 sometning I believe and he was still making insane progress. That shows you all u need to know.

 

[luki7788]

A little off topic here but it is interesting. Mariusz pudgianowski used to run an hgh infusion through iv along with igf1 and epo. Evidently it was a very effective method. This is not a rumor. I actually know someone that witnessed it firsthand during WSM . I always wanted to try it but the thought of mainlining anything freaks me out.

with all due respect, but this is complete nonsense and a lie - I know because I know Mariusz

 

[Alzadosghost]

Man, that cat was a beast in the strongman competitions. It seemed like if Mariusz was competing then the others should just stay home. He was that dominant!

with all due respect, but this is complete nonsense and a lie - I know because I know Mariusz

You’d know better then I would I didn’t know the man. Sorry for passing bad info Luki. I’ll say something

 

[specter]

You’d know better then I would I didn’t know the man. Sorry for passing bad info Luki. I’ll say something

so he didnt see it first hand ?

 

[Alzadosghost]

so he didnt see it first hand ?

Evidently not. My bad guys I truly did believe him.

 

[Black Beard]

with all due respect, but this is complete nonsense and a lie - I know because I know Mariusz

Polish power

 

[Parabolic33]

I think type II said something like the decrease in igf is due to tren using it. Not something he or others were concerned about. Glad it was helpful. BTW tren dose was 350mg of tren a so nothing mega to get that igf impact.

I’ve read those posts on that, I just want sure to what magnitude the results where, but I’ve looked around here for posts over the last day or two and saw guys saying their igf1 was like cut in half essentially with vs without trenbolone.

On a side note, I’ve actually mostly abandoned high dose gh for off-season mass gaining phases, because I found I was getting much better results with igf1lr3. However the sensitivity loss to lr3 seems to also be mitigated by trenbolone even at a low dose. I found after 3-4 weeks normally igf1 lr3 100mcg daily I’d start to loose sensitivity and effect, but with tren in the mix, I was pushing the lr3 use all the way out to 6,7,8 weeks in duration without feeling and loss of effect.

So there is some sort of complex interaction that tren has in a unique way on the igf1 axis.

I’m not sure all the mechanisms of igf1 and negative feedback. Like idk if high intramuscular igf1 provides negative feedback for liver Igf1. Idk how that would even work to be honest, because if igf1 is hugh in the muscle, it’s in the muscle, not in circulation, so there has to be some way for it to provide stimulus as the liver to cause it to not produce as much igf1.

 

[Mufasa123]

I’ve read those posts on that, I just want sure to what magnitude the results where, but I’ve looked around here for posts over the last day or two and saw guys saying their igf1 was like cut in half essentially with vs without trenbolone.

On a side note, I’ve actually mostly abandoned high dose gh for off-season mass gaining phases, because I found I was getting much better results with igf1lr3. However the sensitivity loss to lr3 seems to also be mitigated by trenbolone even at a low dose. I found after 3-4 weeks normally igf1 lr3 100mcg daily I’d start to loose sensitivity and effect, but with tren in the mix, I was pushing the lr3 use all the way out to 6,7,8 weeks in duration without feeling and loss of effect.

So there is some sort of complex interaction that tren has in a unique way on the igf1 axis.

I’m not sure all the mechanisms of igf1 and negative feedback. Like idk if high intramuscular igf1 provides negative feedback for liver Igf1. Idk how that would even work to be honest, because if igf1 is hugh in the muscle, it’s in the muscle, not in circulation, so there has to be some way for it to provide stimulus as the liver to cause it to not produce as much igf1.

This is interesting stuff. Way beyond what I can offer but also potentially very practical in use. I don't know how to flag people in posts but Type II is likely the best to offer thoughts on this. I'd ping him.

 

[Doitagain]

This is interesting stuff. Way beyond what I can offer but also potentially very practical in use. I don't know how to flag people in posts but Type II is likely the best to offer thoughts on this. I'd ping him.

@Type-IIx

 

[SouthernMuscle]

i already linked @Type-IIx thoughts on this, apparently nobody wanted to click the link

 

[Type-IIx]

The practical difficulty with determining Tren & rhGH dose/response vis-à-vis Δ IGF-I relates primarily to almost nobody having a true base-line serum IGF-I to refer to.

Some relevant posts/threads I have written on the topic:
Factors that Diminish GH Response (↓Δ IGF-I); The Purpose of the Serum IGF-I Test: A Revision (2.0) [Author: Type-IIx] – this is of the utmost importance for establishing meaningful bases to determine your dose/response.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...d-igf1-levels-blood-tests.166733/post-3062493 (thank you @SouthernMuscle for sharing this earlier in this thread) – this is a simplified explanation of the mechanisms. I also have written a detailed subsection, in the Reference portion of Bolus: A Practical and Reference Guide for the Use of Recombinant Human Growth Hormone (rhGH), under the section Interactions with other drugs or exogenous hormones – Trenbolone – that contains subsections (a) Enhanced insulin sensitivity & (b) Increased muscle and decreased fat mass, that explains all that we know about Trenbolone & rhGH synergy (greater than additive; 1 + 1 > 2).

To illustrate based on bloodwork from clients that I have been working with (note that even these guys don't have true base-line IGF-I values, there was always some confounding factor to their IGF-I values that I hope to correct by writing the above MesoRx quasi-article) how individual the apparent (though it cannot be quantified with reference to base-line, only by reference to the normal distribution of IGF-I values in a reference population) ↓Δ IGF-I & ↓ IGF-I (diminished increase to circulating liver-secreted IGF-I & diminished absolute circulating liver-secreted IGF-I) can be:

Example 1 has been running 100 mg trenbolone enanthate q.w., 300 mg testosterone cypionate q.w., anastrozole 0.25 mg t.i.w. & rhGH 5 IU q.d. or 6.i.w. (1.977 IU/BSA/day & 13.842 IU/BSA/week) on a long time-course and enjoys a 345 μg/L serum IGF-I.

Example 2 running 500 mg testosterone cypionate q.w., 350 mg methenolone enanthate q.w., 150 mg trenbolone enanthate q.w. & 5 IU q.d. rhGH (2.5 IU/m²/d & 17.5 IU/m²/w) after 6 weeks saw a paltry serum IGF-I of 246 μg/L. His rhGH dose has since been titrated up.

Other examples are confounded by the use of insulin & other agents that increase IGF-I bioavailability; these are recent, representative examples.