Stop ruining your entire contest prep!

[JonnyO]

My question to you JonnyO is what did your water and sodium look like while you loaded carbs Weds -fri -- + a shitload saturday.

That sounds like mis timing of sodium, water intake and if I had to guess a diuretic.

For me I will "clean load" Friday night around 8-9pm OR early Saturday morning around 330 AM.

What I mean by "clean load" is this --- I wont quite re-introduce sodium just yet, so I will load on simple sugars and fats -- but low sodium content. Things like breakfast bars + cashew butter, coconut butter, plain white potatoes and jam etc....

I know that sodium has not been fully excreted with water as I am still clearing water at Friday night after I cut it off (8-10 pm) so I make sure to clean load without sodium.

Once I Have been cut off from water for 8-9 hrs I will then add sodium back in and shitload + eat normal foods.

-FF

Man we're going back to 2004 I think when I did the ECup, my journals at home and Im at work right now. I beleive I kept sodium/water normal on Weds, Thurs cut both in half and Fri no water and no sodium until that evening after weighins because I remember eating bread and a fillet at Outback.

Ive experimented lately with various protocols on others though and have had success keeping water high until the night of like you and just Fri cutting sodium then reintroducing it early Sat am and has worked very well. But not all bodies are alike and Ive also cut sodium in half Thursday and its worked well.

I am going to run water to fri and keep it high as it could be a reason I flatten out so much myself. Its frustrating knowing I need to be fuller with my conditioning and pounding so much carbs like have have in the past and still didnt fill out. Ive also usually worked with a coach too so heeded their advice to the T. The ECup was a show I did myself with a friend and put two heads together for that prep and it was my best one.


Diuretics I usually run Fri eve once waters shut down, Dyazide or Aldactazide whatever I can get my hands on. Noel gave me advice with Aldactone last year for someone (female) and it worked out pretty well I must say. I wouldnt use it on myself though.

 

[Ironman2010]

Thank you for all your help FF, its nice of you to give up your time to help and chime in with some of your experiences etc

I have a idea in my head now how to run my last week...it'll be nothing to drastic....everything you have said makes sense...i will keep you guys updated with the outcome

 

[ajdonutz]

Fantastic post.. good to know most guys are just overcomplicating things..

 

[Chipper Jones78]

Man we're going back to 2004 I think when I did the ECup, my journals at home and Im at work right now. I beleive I kept sodium/water normal on Weds, Thurs cut both in half and Fri no water and no sodium until that evening after weighins because I remember eating bread and a fillet at Outback.

Ive experimented lately with various protocols on others though and have had success keeping water high until the night of like you and just Fri cutting sodium then reintroducing it early Sat am and has worked very well. But not all bodies are alike and Ive also cut sodium in half Thursday and its worked well.

I am going to run water to fri and keep it high as it could be a reason I flatten out so much myself. Its frustrating knowing I need to be fuller with my conditioning and pounding so much carbs like have have in the past and still didnt fill out. Ive also usually worked with a coach too so heeded their advice to the T. The ECup was a show I did myself with a friend and put two heads together for that prep and it was my best one.


Diuretics I usually run Fri eve once waters shut down, Dyazide or Aldactazide whatever I can get my hands on. Noel gave me advice with Aldactone last year for someone (female) and it worked out pretty well I must say. I wouldnt use it on myself though.

Hey Jonny;

Can you emphazie the comment above and comment on the advice that was given for a female?

Many thanks

chip

 

[FutureFreak]

Man we're going back to 2004 I think when I did the ECup, my journals at home and Im at work right now. I beleive I kept sodium/water normal on Weds, Thurs cut both in half and Fri no water and no sodium until that evening after weighins because I remember eating bread and a fillet at Outback.

Ive experimented lately with various protocols on others though and have had success keeping water high until the night of like you and just Fri cutting sodium then reintroducing it early Sat am and has worked very well. But not all bodies are alike and Ive also cut sodium in half Thursday and its worked well.

I am going to run water to fri and keep it high as it could be a reason I flatten out so much myself. Its frustrating knowing I need to be fuller with my conditioning and pounding so much carbs like have have in the past and still didnt fill out. Ive also usually worked with a coach too so heeded their advice to the T. The ECup was a show I did myself with a friend and put two heads together for that prep and it was my best one.


Diuretics I usually run Fri eve once waters shut down, Dyazide or Aldactazide whatever I can get my hands on. Noel gave me advice with Aldactone last year for someone (female) and it worked out pretty well I must say. I wouldnt use it on myself though.

Ecup 2005 -- when middle wt Todd Scott won correct?

I would be willing to bet that it was the simple fact that you reduced fluids in half thursday and then stopped drinking pretty much all friday + the dyazide (if you used aldactazide that can flatten fast) --- I dont care how much carbs you pound down -- it gets to the point where it is NOT a carbohydrate issue -- but rather a sodium/water issue.

It sounds crazy and backwards --- but I prioritize sodium and water 1st and 2nd and carbs 3rd in importance of how you will look.

If you nail your sodium and water perfect --- you do not need that many carbs......

FF

 

[JonnyO]

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Hey Jonny;

Can you emphazie the comment above and comment on the advice that was given for a female?

Many thanks

chip

Well things changed for me in the way Id handle water and sodium that last week. Like I mentioned Id taper both down the last few days before and its worked well for others. With Aldactone, keeping both in there shouldnt be an issue as long as water and sodium were in. Ald was used as the norm starting Tuesday moderate amounts. Worked out well, she missed winning her Pro card by 1 point!

But I dont think women BB or Fit/fig/bikini really need to worry too much about flattening out as much as men do.

 

[JonnyO]

Ecup 2005 -- when middle wt Todd Scott won correct?

I would be willing to bet that it was the simple fact that you reduced fluids in half thursday and then stopped drinking pretty much all friday + the dyazide (if you used aldactazide that can flatten fast) --- I dont care how much carbs you pound down -- it gets to the point where it is NOT a carbohydrate issue -- but rather a sodium/water issue.

It sounds crazy and backwards --- but I prioritize sodium and water 1st and 2nd and carbs 3rd in importance of how you will look.

If you nail your sodium and water perfect --- you do not need that many carbs......

FF

Yeah bro that was the year, I won the Heavies that year.

And I agree completely, sometimes in this sport you need to go against the grain to get the desired results. At first I thought keeping water high and not tapering was rediculous, as I was brainwashed to think the opposite and tapering only made sense right? Welll no and when you analyze the theory of keeping water high then shutting it off what happens after that you realize what the hell was I tapering water before for, lol.

Great discussion. I might compete this year around November, right now Im dieting for show time on the beach in Mexico in 9 days, lol. But now I really want to compete to try this myself and see how I look.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

Well things changed for me in the way Id handle water and sodium that last week. Like I mentioned Id taper both down the last few days before and its worked well for others. With Aldactone, keeping both in there shouldnt be an issue as long as water and sodium were in. Ald was used as the norm starting Tuesday moderate amounts. Worked out well, she missed winning her Pro card by 1 point!

But I dont think women BB or Fit/fig/bikini really need to worry too much about flattening out as much as men do.

Cheers & Thanks.

Chip.

 

[Bigmix]

Damn great post... I'm 17-days out myself and well give this a go... much appreciated info right here

 

[Jim_87]

awesome thread

 

[FutureFreak]

Yeah bro that was the year, I won the Heavies that year.

And I agree completely, sometimes in this sport you need to go against the grain to get the desired results. At first I thought keeping water high and not tapering was rediculous, as I was brainwashed to think the opposite and tapering only made sense right? Welll no and when you analyze the theory of keeping water high then shutting it off what happens after that you realize what the hell was I tapering water before for, lol.

Great discussion. I might compete this year around November, right now Im dieting for show time on the beach in Mexico in 9 days, lol. But now I really want to compete to try this myself and see how I look.

Will be cool to see you compete again --- My fiance wants me to diet for our wedding and honey moon --- but I am making best gains of my life right now! I want to keep the ball rolling, + I have a guest posing gig in July.....Looks like I will be doing some mild manipulations to shed some water and reduce facial bloat ---- but sacrifice gains --- I sure hope not!

-Ff

 

[Redrum123]

1.) Unless he was carb cycling 100 , 50, 150 or something to that extent and was USED TO that low of carbs I would just keep at 100g....

Then focus on drying him out friday, and adding carbs Saturday morning. Super simple.

-Ff

This is my exact situation... coming in to the show on very very low carbs, how would you change the final touches? I have been pretty flat and depleted these last 3 weeks but the weigh is most definately coming off.

This is more the typical " shitload " method correct?

 

[Redrum123]

If you nail your sodium and water perfect --- you do not need that many carbs......

FF

Please explain not "that" many, people like skip follow much of the same protocol as you and as he has said it is next to impossible to spill over when shitloading... ie: 1k plus carbs all the while getting fuller and better conditioned.

 

[Jblack]

First I had to google KCL. Then I asked, as well as well as went through all his meds, if he's on any Potassium supplement or aldactone and he said no. His Lasik tabs are 20mg and he takes those twice a day and has done so for years. He's also on a Beta Blocker (metoprolol 100mg 3x/day), ACE inhibitor lisinopril 2.5mg/day) and blood thinner (Pradaxa 150mg 2x/day).

Should he be taking a potassium supplement and if so when? Right when he takes the lasik or give is a few hours after while he's losing the fluid?

The lisinopril helps spare potassium.

 

[canibust]

what a great post thank you

 

[fr8lnr01]

Didn't read the full thread but the first post is right on. Dropping all of the carbs forces the body to exchange fluids in the wrong direction and it is difficult to correct 1 day before the show. It amazes me how beautiful people look days after the show versus day of. People do not often pay attention to the loss of magnesium when using diuretics, and the correlation of the two electrolytes when it comes to potassium absorbtion. We often have to give mag so a patient can absorb k in the medical setting.

Just a snippet..
Magnesium and potassium are the 2 major intracellular cations. The intracellular concentrations of these 2 ions appear to be closely correlated, but the existence of a relationship between the plasma concentrations of these ions has been controversial. A major function of potassium is to maintain the excitability of nerve and muscle tissue. Alterations in either the intracellular or extracellular potassium concentration affect membrane excitability by alterations in the resting membrane potential. The critical factor is not the actual potassium concentration in either compartment but rather the ratio of the intracellular to the extracellular concentration. The intracellular concentration of potassium is maintained against an electrochemical gradient by active transport involving an ionic pump mechanism. In this metabolically active ion-pump mechanism the inward transport of potassium is balanced by the outward transport of sodium; this active transport mechanism involves magnesium. The plasma concentration of potassium has been reported to be an important factor in the genesis of cardiac arrhythmias. The arrhythmogenic mechanisms of hypokalaemia, particularly in mild degrees, have not been clearly defined. However, evidence has begun to accumulate that magnesium deficiency may be a critical factor in the cardiac arrhythmias associated with hypokalaemia. Diuretic drugs are recognised as primary agents in the treatment of essential hypertension. In patients on antihypertensive treatment evidence has recently been reported that there is a link between the administration of diuretics and sudden death. In addition to their action on the renal tubular handling of sodium and water, diuretic drugs affect the renal tubular handling of other ions. A well-established complication of therapy with diuretic drugs is an increased urinary excretion of potassium resulting in hypokalaemia. Hypokalaemia and hypomagnesaemia can be induced by the same mechanisms and are often clinically correlated with one another. The reported incidence of hypomagnesaemia is greater than that of hypokalaemia; a significant correlation also appears to exist between the plasma concentrations of magnesium and potassium. A significant inter-relationship between the plasma concentrations of magnesium and potassium and the evidence for a critical role of magnesium in the genesis of cardiac arrhythmias would support the proposal that magnesium should be routinely measured in situations, such as diuretic therapy, that are potentially associated with hypokalaemia.(Magnesium and potassium. Inter-relationships in cardia... [Drugs. 1986] - PubMed - NCBI)

 

[FutureFreak]

This is my exact situation... coming in to the show on very very low carbs, how would you change the final touches? I have been pretty flat and depleted these last 3 weeks but the weigh is most definately coming off.

This is more the typical " shitload " method correct?

Coming into the final stages carb depleted (which could mean 50g, 100g, or 150g) is definitely expected if in LEAN --LEAN condition as carbohydrate depletion is relative to each person due to metabolism, activity level and body size.

So you can do a few things here --

Load early meaning something around 3-4xs current carb intake for 2 days on Tuesday & Wednesday (300-500g) -- then go back to original levels Thursday and Friday and dissipate water that could have been leaked into interstitial space and focus on getting water and sodium perfect for ultra dry condition upon rising on Saturday.

Once you have been dry for 8+ hrs you could then dry out and "quick fill" more by eating some "shit food" essential sodium, sugars and fats.

Keep eye on condition while eating and do not be afraid of drinking if going flat and losing muscle contractions.

Plan B -- is simply staying on depletion amount of carbs (whatever that may be) --- focus on DRYing out for friday night ----> once water has been cut around 9PM ---> load some sodium free carbs (potato, yam, rice , rice cakes, ) etc.... right after water shut off ---- as you further excrete more water & sodium you can then introduce shitty foods in Saturday morning.

So Friday begin sodium free carbs --- slowly transferring to sodium based carbs after 8 hrs of drying out from water shut off.

-FF

 

[FutureFreak]

Please explain not "that" many, people like skip follow much of the same protocol as you and as he has said it is next to impossible to spill over when shitloading... ie: 1k plus carbs all the while getting fuller and better conditioned.

This is true once you are stripped of water and sodium...only because you are NOT reintroducing water in GREAT AMOUNTS.

Yes you can keep jam packing shit into your system but I promise you bloat and Distention will occur.

You really are just too damn dehydrated in the first place as if you nail the timing of water and sodium cut off perfect --- you really do not need endless amounts of shitty foods to do the trick....

But yea noone should ever really "count carbs" once loading in this manner,

-FF

 

[lilarnold]

I wont go out of my way to add soy sauce to my meals the last week or do anything EXTRA ordinary.

I ALWAYS season my fish, chicken, steak etc,,,,, very well so I just keep doing so until Thursday at bed.

I do believe in ramping up water even HIGHER Friday then days prior....sounds strange, but I taper up if anything.

It goes right in the face of the bullshit taper down method and makes old school guys scratch their heads but it works well.

I will prioritize thursday and friday for just drinking enough fluids and try to stay close to home as driving is a real pain in the ass peeing all the time.

I will drop water off abruptly Friday anywhere from 8-10 pm.

Friday night I have been 228 loaded with gallons of water --- by saturday weigh in ----very TIGHT 216-217.

-FF

what if your weigh in is on friday evening????

 

[FutureFreak]

what if your weigh in is on friday evening????

That is the one stipulation that will change things abit.

Being that you are "SQUEEZING" into the top of a lower weight class I will ASSUME you will ripped to the damn bone -- dry without water manipulation etc...

That would be where you "gamble" a bit and drink just enough and eat just enough to MAKE WEIGHT then the coach should be right at your side to determine whether to continue drinking + carbing or simply just eating more foods and drying out without ADDING WEIGHT.

Weight will only come from FLUID + CARBS --- not eating tons of carbs with water shut off -- most of the time you just get lighter....

Fine balancing act then of adding some sodium, some water,,,, carbs etc... then PAUSE everything and attempt to hold a certain look.

Making weight and actually looking PERFEct is tough....

Usually the guys pulls too much --- then does NOT KNOW HOW to go about filling back out the proper way and wishes he looked how he did 1 week earlier dry, veiny and fat free with no "trickery."

-Ff