The OG training thread.

[bbxtreme]

Again, I hate starting threads on here or not being the one learning.

But I’ve gotten a ton of PM’s and request for me to start a thread on training and my experience from members.

At this point, I’m sure everyone is sick of reading my post (I know I am). So I am creating this thread a bit differently and it will either be a huge hit and take off or be an epic fail, which if that happens- mods please feel free to delete. No harm no foul.

Instead of leading with “what is my opinion and experience on training”, I’m instead calling on all the OG (as the thread title implies) to come here and share:

1. How did you start training and what age? Stats then.

2. What was your training routine at your peak and your stats?

3. What would you differently, if anything?

4. How do you train now, and why that method.

Summary- I’m calling on all vets only to share what training routine made you the biggest mother fucker in bodybuilding, why did you do it, and what would you change?

Im not going to tag or call anyone out by name as you know who you are if you fall into this category. If you have to “ask the question”- is this me? Then I ask that you please don’t post and sit back, grab a protein shake and fucking learn.

Why am I doing it this way?

Because I have degrees on the subject, have 3 training certs from ISSA, CE credits from NASM on the subject, as well have attended seminars from top Olympic strength coaches, trained under and with multiple IFBB pro’s, been guided by legends such as Lee Haney, then went on to dedicate a full season and prep to FST-7, another to John Meadow’s programs Gamma Bomb and Creeping Death. If that’s not enough was coached by Milos, Vu, and now AJ is my guy until my pro card.

I could continue on my list of credentials, history, and experience as since I was 15 I’ve been obsessed with the art of training as I am to be the hardest working mother fucker in the gym. I’ve always known I don’t have the genetic gift that many bodybuilders do. The opposite, so I maximize every other angle I possibly can and make sure that I know when I step on stage that win or lose- nobody fucking outworked me.

I’ve had most coaches tell me I need to “recover more”, sleep in, or watch over training and I fully agree… I likely do, but this is what we do. There is no off switch. I compete because I love train, I don’t train because I love competing- I honestly hate that day and process/trophies. It’s me vs. me even if I never get a pro card.

So while I could tell you all the textbook crap on training and how this muscle group is X fiber type which means it should theoretically be trained Y way. Guess what? It doesn’t work that way in all cases. I sit down with and see NASM guys constantly asking for input because they see what I’m “doing” contradicts every text book.

End of rant- Vets and top guys post away please. And yes, if the thread takes off and there’s enough demand I’ll outline my training history and the other items I noted above. But most of the real life shit that works came from this forum and the vets here.

Post up your OG routines guys- no right or wrong way for the vets or a bad post.

 

[alfresco]

Again, I hate starting threads on here or not being the one learning.

But I’ve gotten a ton of PM’s and request for me to start a thread on training and my experience from members.

At this point, I’m sure everyone is sick of reading my post (I know I am). So I am creating this thread a bit differently and it will either be a huge hit and take off or be an epic fail, which if that happens- mods please feel free to delete. No harm no foul.

Instead of leading with “what is my opinion and experience on training”, I’m instead calling on all the OG (as the thread title implies) to come here and share:

1. How did you start training and what age? Stats then.

2. What was your training routine at your peak and your stats?

3. What would you differently, if anything?

4. How do you train now, and why that method.

Summary- I’m calling on all vets only to share what training routine made you the biggest mother fucker in bodybuilding, why did you do it, and what would you change?

Im not going to tag or call anyone out by name as you know who you are if you fall into this category. If you have to “ask the question”- is this me? Then I ask that you please don’t post and sit back, grab a protein shake and fucking learn.

Why am I doing it this way?

Because I have degrees on the subject, have 3 training certs from ISSA, CE credits from NASM on the subject, as well have attended seminars from top Olympic strength coaches, trained under and with multiple IFBB pro’s, been guided by legends such as Lee Haney, then went on to dedicate a full season and prep to FST-7, another to John Meadow’s programs Gamma Bomb and Creeping Death. If that’s not enough was coached by Milos, Vu, and now AJ is my guy until my pro card.

I could continue on my list of credentials, history, and experience as since I was 15 I’ve been obsessed with the art of training as I am to be the hardest working mother fucker in the gym. I’ve always known I don’t have the genetic gift that many bodybuilders do. The opposite, so I maximize every other angle I possibly can and make sure that I know when I step on stage that win or lose- nobody fucking outworked me.

I’ve had most coaches tell me I need to “recover more”, sleep in, or watch over training and I fully agree… I likely do, but this is what we do. There is no off switch. I compete because I love train, I don’t train because I love competing- I honestly hate that day and process/trophies. It’s me vs. me even if I never get a pro card.

So while I could tell you all the textbook crap on training and how this muscle group is X fiber type which means it should theoretically be trained Y way. Guess what? It doesn’t work that way in all cases. I sit down with and see NASM guys constantly asking for input because they see what I’m “doing” contradicts every text book.

End of rant- Vets and top guys post away please. And yes, if the thread takes off and there’s enough demand I’ll outline my training history and the other items I noted above. But most of the real life shit that works came from this forum and the vets here.

Post up your OG routines guys- no right or wrong way for the vets or a bad post.

Thanks for starting this. It’s going to be good.

I will see what I can dig up. (Done this before.) Caution, it’s probably going to be looooong

 

[AsiaGear]

Thanks for sharing bro!

Will be following along on this thread

 

[b-boy]

Started - age 13 just basically barbell bench press, bent rows, shoulder press, dumbell pull overs legs ext, and leg curls and standing barbell curls and skull crushers. This was all I could do on my cheap ass bench at home that my mom got me for Christmas, it was those old concrete weights covered in hard plastic. LOL
Got a universal machine at Jr. High (8th grade) and trained mainly on that and some at home.
Freshman year in high-school is when it all got real as I was training mostly with the football team in a real gym where u started squatting and got obsessed with pull-ups and dips. I started getting pretty damn strong as I became the strongest freshman on the football team (a few guys were right on my heels)
Senior year I was pounding food and my life was all about football, training was our football strength program which was pyramid up in weight, down in reps like 10,8,6,4,2 (the 10 rep was basically a warm up). I was 190lbs and I maxed out on bench press at 420 right before I graduated and hit 430 at 195lbs that summer. During the summer I ran with some crazy dudes and got a few assaults on my record and the local army recruiter saved me from going to jail by talking the judge into letting me join the US army. While in the military I kept doing my football strength program when I got out of basic training, I lost a lot of weight in basic training and lost a lot of strength, I got down to around 170lbs. When I got to my station at Ft. Bragg, NC I just kept dieting and got down to a shredded 160 then remained at around 165 lbs got my strength up to benching around 385 which was good considering I basically had starved that weight off of me. I also changed up my lifting to a more bodybuilding style workout with much more volume and kept rep ranges in the 8-12 rep range and I looked like I could step on stage any day I wanted as I was ripped 24/7 all the time. Diet was high protein, med carbs, lots of veggies and I was active as fuck.

Continue later ^^^^

 

[bbxtreme]

Thanks for starting this. It’s going to be good.

I will see what I can dig up. (Done this before.) Caution, it’s probably going to be looooong

That’s ok and good. It’s why I asked others to share first. It will take me a few days to make time to write all of mine out.

I’m excited to see the diversity of training techniques used as I’ve seen some crazy and cool stuff over the years.

 

[Flex500]

Again, I hate starting threads on here or not being the one learning.

But I’ve gotten a ton of PM’s and request for me to start a thread on training and my experience from members.

At this point, I’m sure everyone is sick of reading my post (I know I am). So I am creating this thread a bit differently and it will either be a huge hit and take off or be an epic fail, which if that happens- mods please feel free to delete. No harm no foul.

Instead of leading with “what is my opinion and experience on training”, I’m instead calling on all the OG (as the thread title implies) to come here and share:

1. How did you start training and what age? Stats then.

2. What was your training routine at your peak and your stats?

3. What would you differently, if anything?

4. How do you train now, and why that method.

Summary- I’m calling on all vets only to share what training routine made you the biggest mother fucker in bodybuilding, why did you do it, and what would you change?

Im not going to tag or call anyone out by name as you know who you are if you fall into this category. If you have to “ask the question”- is this me? Then I ask that you please don’t post and sit back, grab a protein shake and fucking learn.

Why am I doing it this way?

Because I have degrees on the subject, have 3 training certs from ISSA, CE credits from NASM on the subject, as well have attended seminars from top Olympic strength coaches, trained under and with multiple IFBB pro’s, been guided by legends such as Lee Haney, then went on to dedicate a full season and prep to FST-7, another to John Meadow’s programs Gamma Bomb and Creeping Death. If that’s not enough was coached by Milos, Vu, and now AJ is my guy until my pro card.

I could continue on my list of credentials, history, and experience as since I was 15 I’ve been obsessed with the art of training as I am to be the hardest working mother fucker in the gym. I’ve always known I don’t have the genetic gift that many bodybuilders do. The opposite, so I maximize every other angle I possibly can and make sure that I know when I step on stage that win or lose- nobody fucking outworked me.

I’ve had most coaches tell me I need to “recover more”, sleep in, or watch over training and I fully agree… I likely do, but this is what we do. There is no off switch. I compete because I love train, I don’t train because I love competing- I honestly hate that day and process/trophies. It’s me vs. me even if I never get a pro card.

So while I could tell you all the textbook crap on training and how this muscle group is X fiber type which means it should theoretically be trained Y way. Guess what? It doesn’t work that way in all cases. I sit down with and see NASM guys constantly asking for input because they see what I’m “doing” contradicts every text book.

End of rant- Vets and top guys post away please. And yes, if the thread takes off and there’s enough demand I’ll outline my training history and the other items I noted above. But most of the real life shit that works came from this forum and the vets here.

Post up your OG routines guys- no right or wrong way for the vets or a bad post.

1. How did you start training and what age? Stats then.

• 10 years old in my basement doing bench press and curls, etc. Had an other step brother who loved working out and I fell in love it it. Was a very good athlete and always loved the weight training part. I was the super athletic overly muscular kid in high school (was a 100m sprinter in college), but not huge. 5'7" 185, but super lean and muscular. When the college I went to cut mens track I got really into it and went from 185 to 215 natural and at that age (around 19 or so) is when I really got into it).

2. What was your training routine at your peak and your stats?

• It started as high volume bro split but I found I responded better when I did one "peak set" and more of a HIT routine in the mold of yates. For instance I did a "back day" with about 5 movements but only one "work set" to failure. At my biggest and best I was working out 4 days a week doing back/hams, chest/shoulders, legs, arms. I was a sloppy 5'8" 270, but a lean and mean 240 (when I bulked correctly). I competed well but got my ass worked on a nationally stage. I'll admit, no discipline to diet. I just didn't have it in my 20's. I kept track of everything and this is the routine that worked best for me (most movements stayed pretty similar). It was basically three extremely intense days and then an arm day that was pretty short and less overall fatigue.
  • Back/Hams:
    • Back extension (or other ham movement): 1 set to failure
    • Pullups: 1 set to failure
    • Deadlifts: 1 set to failure, usually one back off set higher reps
    • Barbell row: 1 set to failure, usually one back off set higher reps
    • Some sort of machine row: 1 set to failure
  • Chest/Shoulders
    • Some sort of bench press: 1 set to failure, usually a higher rep back off set
    • Machine bench press: 1 set to failure
    • Some sort of fly movement: 1 set to failure
    • Side laterals: 1 set to failure
    • OHP: 1 set to failure
  • Legs
    • Ham Curls: 1 set to failure, one high rep back off set
    • Leg extensions: 1 set to failure
    • Squats: 1 set to failure
    • Leg press: 1 set to failure
    • Leg Extension (again) 1 set to failure
  • Arms
    • Abs: high rep set to failure
    • Biceps: 1 movement to failure, one back off set
    • Triceps: two movements, usually a pressdown and then a close grip bench or dip to failure.

3. What would you differently, if anything?

• Not a lot, but I would have gotten right to a lower volume, intensity focused routine faster. I also would have focused on taking momentum out of the lifts sooner. I used to squat a shit ton but it was fast (people would describe it as great form), I probably could have had less wear and tear if I slowed it down a bit and started doing pause squats sooner, pause bench, etc. etc.

4. How do you train now, and why that method.

• I'm in my twilight years and like to experiment. I'm doing full body/1 set to failure 5-7 times a week now. After come off a year of "pregnancy protocol" I felt a very high frequency program would be good (and fun). I'm on legit trt now and while I want to improve, I'm 41 and my best days are behind me so I do a lot of things for fun now. I do somewhat miss that old program I did and thinking about trying it again.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

How did it started: What exercise do I fancy doing?

How it’s going: What exercise can I do that doesn’t hurt



I’m definitely not an OG or vet so won’t bother posting my BS

Very interested to follow

Enjoyed/enjoying your insulin thread be interested for you to post equivalent ones on gear and diet very insightful

 

[Flex500]

How did it started: What exercise do I fancy doing?

How it’s going: What exercise can I do that doesn’t hurt



I’m definitely not an OG or vet so won’t bother posting my BS

Very interested to follow

Enjoyed/enjoying your insulin thread be interested for you to post equivalent ones on gear and diet very insightful

You should definitely post, I think you qualify lol.

 

[bbxtreme]

How did it started: What exercise do I fancy doing?

How it’s going: What exercise can I do that doesn’t hurt



I’m definitely not an OG or vet so won’t bother posting my BS

Very interested to follow

Enjoyed/enjoying your insulin thread be interested for you to post equivalent ones on gear and diet very insightful

Shit man you look better and have more size than 95% of guys on here. My only critique is that you way overthink things, which we are all guilty of early on IMO.

Feel free to post your answers and routine. We’d love to know and see it.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

Shit man you look better and have more size than 95% of guys on here. My only critique is that you way overthink things, which we are all guilty of early on IMO.

Feel free to post your answers and routine. We’d love to know and see it.

Thank you mate I appreciate that a lot!

I’m definitely an over thinker by nature and then the fact that I’ve been lifting for quite a while but only fairly recently got seriously into bodybuilding and specifically researching stuff prior to that I just “did” without to much thought.

When I initially got into training at a gym and for the first year or so I just followed various flex magazine workouts (and diets) as I didn’t have much of a clue about anything

Being from the UK it didn’t take long until I found Dorian Yates blood and guts dvd so after watching that it pretty much shaped my ever lasting philosphy
On training

For years post that I’ve always favoured and practiced lower volume HIT stuff whether that be following Dorian’s exact workouts to doing the DC programmes then onto PPL

I mainly favoured this type of training because it just made sense whereas a lot of the volume stuff just seemed to be “just because” whereas the the HIT/DC type stuff seemed to be backed my science (potentially
Of the bro nature here and there) but to me at least just made sense

So until I got into powerlifting I always trained that type of style

Present day I adhere to and believe training the maximum volume and maximum frequency (that you can recover from) in a progressive overload fashion will yield the maximum results in minimum timeframe

This works out to about 10-14 absolute failure progressive overload sets per body part over the course of a week hitting everything twice over 7 days. I will say and by no means at all am I bragging but I do believe I am slightly
Above average genetics in terms of recovery as I know others who’ve tried this and burn out within a couple of weeks and I do do absolutely everything I can to maximise recovery and in general treat this like a pro would so that shall reflect in my ability to recover




I will add on to this I believe the more traditional bro style volume workouts DO have their place once a person has built most of their size and or reached gym poundage’s that make chasing weight more risk than it’s worth but seeing as the large majority (definitely including me) aren’t at this stage then I still believe the methods I follow to be superior

Again just my opinions which are partly
Backed by science and partly just my own findings

 

[showstopper83]

Again, I hate starting threads on here or not being the one learning.

But I’ve gotten a ton of PM’s and request for me to start a thread on training and my experience from members.

At this point, I’m sure everyone is sick of reading my post (I know I am). So I am creating this thread a bit differently and it will either be a huge hit and take off or be an epic fail, which if that happens- mods please feel free to delete. No harm no foul.

Instead of leading with “what is my opinion and experience on training”, I’m instead calling on all the OG (as the thread title implies) to come here and share:

1. How did you start training and what age? Stats then.

2. What was your training routine at your peak and your stats?

3. What would you differently, if anything?

4. How do you train now, and why that method.

Summary- I’m calling on all vets only to share what training routine made you the biggest mother fucker in bodybuilding, why did you do it, and what would you change?

Im not going to tag or call anyone out by name as you know who you are if you fall into this category. If you have to “ask the question”- is this me? Then I ask that you please don’t post and sit back, grab a protein shake and fucking learn.

Why am I doing it this way?

Because I have degrees on the subject, have 3 training certs from ISSA, CE credits from NASM on the subject, as well have attended seminars from top Olympic strength coaches, trained under and with multiple IFBB pro’s, been guided by legends such as Lee Haney, then went on to dedicate a full season and prep to FST-7, another to John Meadow’s programs Gamma Bomb and Creeping Death. If that’s not enough was coached by Milos, Vu, and now AJ is my guy until my pro card.

I could continue on my list of credentials, history, and experience as since I was 15 I’ve been obsessed with the art of training as I am to be the hardest working mother fucker in the gym. I’ve always known I don’t have the genetic gift that many bodybuilders do. The opposite, so I maximize every other angle I possibly can and make sure that I know when I step on stage that win or lose- nobody fucking outworked me.

I’ve had most coaches tell me I need to “recover more”, sleep in, or watch over training and I fully agree… I likely do, but this is what we do. There is no off switch. I compete because I love train, I don’t train because I love competing- I honestly hate that day and process/trophies. It’s me vs. me even if I never get a pro card.

So while I could tell you all the textbook crap on training and how this muscle group is X fiber type which means it should theoretically be trained Y way. Guess what? It doesn’t work that way in all cases. I sit down with and see NASM guys constantly asking for input because they see what I’m “doing” contradicts every text book.

End of rant- Vets and top guys post away please. And yes, if the thread takes off and there’s enough demand I’ll outline my training history and the other items I noted above. But most of the real life shit that works came from this forum and the vets here.

Post up your OG routines guys- no right or wrong way for the vets or a bad post.

1. Always training to failure regardless of how heavy or rep ranges

2. Progressive Overload

3. Periodization when you are no longer making strength/muscle gains.

4. Emphasis on stretching- i even stretch mildly before large meals, as i believe the pump from it allows for better nutrient absorption- no science that i know of to support this, i go off feel and notice i am much more full when i do.

5. Eccentric training/Negative reps - More volume in a stretched out muscle than a contracted one

 

[bbxtreme]

I’ll take a stab and add more as I have time if of interest:

1. How did you start training and what age? Stats then.

First time I touched weights was 7th grade football weight training. Had never touched a weight. DOMS is real. We did every compound lift and I went balls to the wall. Hours later class was dismissed for science and I couldn’t get up. The teacher yelled at me and I told her “I can’t move or feel my legs.” She came over and pushed me out of the class room and I couldn’t move one foot in front of the other. I didn’t go back to weight training. It was embarrassing.

So fast forward as I had a weight set in my room after that, but my real entry was when I joined a local hardcore gym. I would go in and just move as much weight as I could. The dumbells weighed more than me. I met a hardcore meat head who looked like Branch Warren- he wore high laced construction boots from his job to lift in and did legs EOD.

He pulled me aside one day and asked if “really” wanted to learn how to train. I did! So I met him everyday at the gym and he lifted harder than anyone I’ve met to this day. Total Branch Warren Style. Legs were heavy ass leg press pyramiding up each set until you had nothing left. Then the workout began- old school cybex hacks. Plate to failure each set going up whether it was 100 reps or 20… then pyramid back down same. I puked so many times I lost count. I used to go in at 5am early on off days (my dad drove me) and do hacks thinking if I did more I could keep up. But we finished with lying leg curls 9 straight sets of heavy ass weights. The gym owner was a former NPC guy and asshole, but played hard core rock all day- females didn’t go here.

I worked up to about 150 pounds at 5’6 training with him. I was strong as hell and some days would do barbell military 3 plates a side with him spotting as I did my shitty ass reps. LOL

Once I was able to drive at 16 I got a membership at LA Fitness as that’s where the pros here trained. Roc Shabazz was there at the time. He let me work in with him and was the opposite of what I was doing- heavy controlled weight. I’d never seen someone move so much weight with perfect form. Toney Freeman was also there and was the same. It was eye opening to me and a whole new world. Learning from them and their style was the eye opener that made me say “I want to be a bodybuilder”. I had done strongman competitions and powerlifting because I was strong as shit for my size. But I had idea how to use that strength and wanted to look like Roc and Freeman- so I became obsessed and soaked it all up.

Perfect contractions, learned what a negative was, drop sets and how to create hypertrophy. It was constant battle of them yelling “slow it down”. As I loved to train heavy as shit and still do to this day. The battle became how can I translate all this strength into controlled form. At 175 by that point I could rep 315 on barbell incline like it was air. But couldn’t get my muscle to grow or to look like them. Granted I was only using superdrol at this point. No gear because I was the innocent kid and nobody would help me out.

So fast forward again- it was time to pay for school and college and I’m obsessive and need to know “why” and the science. So I paid for and registered for 3 ISSA programs- 2 in training and one in sports nutrition. At the time they were the largest and most accredited. I spend every last penny on them.

As part of the exam I had the chance to go to attend a 3 day lecture with NY strength coach Dr. Jack Barnathan. He’s counseled Arnold and multiple Olympic athletes and at the time was a big deal. The seminar took place in Atlanta and it was three days of him teaching us each muscle group, fiber types, and how to optimally train them. I was hooked- you mean I should train shoulders different than I do back? Stretch tension vs explosive motion… I got it. But I’ll never forget day 3 was dedicated to legs. He said “today I’m going to teach you the best and most important exercise for leg thickness.” We all headed to the squat rack and he laughed and pointed down to the adductor machine and said “this is where thick legs are made… this isn’t a sissy girls machine.” Then had us get on it and each feel and experience the contraction, tension and stretch points. Holy shit… I didn’t know you could hurt there. after that we limped to the squat rack and he made us squat until our back was perfect, but more importantly- if our knees went over our toes we had to re-rack and start over. “Never break structure and form for weight”.

I took all this and had just started my bachelors for human nutrition, food and exercise sciences so I became a nerd. I obsessed over my form, but had to use heavy weight as it was engrained in me. At the time I had NO back. Someone asked me I ever trained back. That was it. I would do pull-downs and barbell rows for hours each day obsessing over feeling the muscle and engaging it. Finding my range of motion and form. Today my back is my best bodypart and I still slaughter it at the gym. Everyone ask how I have such good form and for pointers when I do back in a tank. I had all the textbook knowledge, I knew it was a stretch muscle I’ll call it in layman’s terms, but it came from spending hours in the gym trying to feel the muscle which I now see I only found because I worked past fatigue of every other muscle group until all I had was back to move the weight. It worked. But now can teach or show someone in 5 min how to engage their lats.

But for years that’s how I trained and got to go back and train with Roc and Freeman and they thought I was a different person. So for my early years I trained as heavy as possible, as controlled as possible and worked each muscle group based on the fiber type and its function. One day I got told “you look like a 3D action figure when I walked in the gym. I was about 195 at that point and still just superdrol (not proud of that).

I used my knowledge to train others, helped a few people compete as I knew all the text book stuff and my training was an art. There was no top sets, giant sets, FST 7, DC training, Mountain Dog etc at this time. I would buy all the Coleman and Cutler DVD’s and mirror them while applying my knowledge and just work the muscle based on its function, motion and fiber type and hit it from every angle. When I couldn’t use the muscle group anymore that’s when the workout was over. I had the science, the foundation (strength) and thanks to Dr. Jack and a handful of pro’s I had perfect form. But most importantly- nobody was going to outwork me in the gym. Training was fun, effective and nobody wanted to train with me- I made Jack shit as a personality trainer because I tried having every client train my style like a bodybuilder. they wanted jumping jacks and fun shit. So I had to find another job to pay for school- was the worst trainer. LOL

That worked for years and very well as people came to me for advice on workouts and helped a lot of guys compete in my early 20’s.

My next phase came when I decided to come back into competing at 30. I thought times have changed and now everyone has a training program. That’s when I worked under Milos on giant sets, did a season of full FST-7, a prep using JM Gamabomb and creeping death.

But that’s chapter 2 and for another day. I’ve done just about every top coaches program out there. Was it or has it been better… do you tailor your training to a set workout program or do you Taylor the program to your body, form, ROM, etc. to be continued later this week. Enjoy!

 

[bbxtreme]

Apologies for the typo’s- wrote that one off my phone and in one pass. Need to proof better.

An example workout from this time as I know that’s what guys want to see:

Chest:
Incline barbell press- 2 warm up sets, 4 sets pyramiding up in weight. 12, 10, 8, 6.

(Arched back, chest up, control the negative and explode up. Never bring bar below perpendicular and control the negative. Don’t lock out as the goal is the negative/stretch down and a controlled explosion up to stimulate upper pecs only. If you engage front delts you’ve pressed too high).

Hammer strength flat bench press- 4 sets. 12, 10, 8, 6

(Align handles with chest (roughly at the armpit. Too high or low will engage delts. Chest up, back arched, and fully contract the pec muscles, hold 1-2 seconds and then control the negative with a 3-4 count negative never going below 90 degrees or allowing your rotator cuff/shoulders to feel the load of the negative. Keeping elbows slightly dropped during the moment to only allow pecs to engage).


Decline hammer strength press- 4 sets. 12, 10, 8, 6

(Drop the seat way down until handles align with the armpit crease. This will be lower than most guys sit for this movement. Contract the pec each set and squeeze for 1-2, 3-4 controlled negative/stretch. Never drop elbows allowing delts to be engaged).

Pec or cable fly machine (with back support)- 16, 14, 12 , 10 - drop set 50% weight hold 3 seconds on contraction and 4 seconds on the negative

(Chest up, slightly drop elbows, slightly bend arms- as if you’re giving a hug, hold contraction and flex chest 1-2, 3-4 negative/stretch. On this movement you can slowly stretch into the pecs beyond 90 degrees as long as the pec is being engaged- not the delts. Keeping elbows dropped will make this easy to not break form). On the drop set control and rep out until failure as you want to chase the pump.

Weighed dips- throw on a weight belt with 1-2 plates and rep out 10-12 reps focusing on the negative and stretch. 1-3 sets. Determined by muscle exhaustion.

(keep shoulders in and flair elbows out- this is a chest stretch and finisher, not a tricep exercise. Lean or dip into the movement and control the negative and do not fully lock out as to not engage the delts and triceps) this is a stretch/finisher movement so sets are determined by how much left you have to exhaust the muscle.

With all of the above there is a cohesive theme:

1. Always keep constant tension on the muscle group being worked. This means not breaking form or locking out on set movements.

2. Minimize and do not engage secondary support muscles during the movement- only use them for “stabilization”. This prevents risk of injury and goes back to number 1- keeps constant tension on the muscle.

3. Find your range of motion- never force a movement or go past your body’s personal range of motion. This will vary based on the person, their build, stretching and your physical structure.

Notes: It’s a basic bread and butter workout. Start with the key compound movement- incline. Then target the full chest with flat hammer strength which allows for control. Then a deep seated decline to really contract and carve out the lower pecs. Cable fly to do a final full chest engaging movement with deep controlled stretching to maximize hypertrophy. Then finish with old school dips to stretch and do a final fatigue of the chest.

I never saw or found benefit in doing higher reps. No top set or anything fancy at this time.

It’s not how much weight, but how you control the weight was my theme. Which is compound movements to start for thickness and size and finishing with stretching movements at the end that always induce hypertrophy. Always use as heavy of weight as possible each set.

This is just my opinion and how I trained in the past, my reasons and details on why and how as well. Does not make them fact or right. Just what I did and what worked for me at the time. The same level of thought and detail went into every workout and body part.

 

[qbkilla]

Apologies for the typo’s- wrote that one off my phone and in one pass. Need to proof better.

An example workout from this time as I know that’s what guys want to see:

Chest:
Incline barbell press- 2 warm up sets, 4 sets pyramiding up in weight. 12, 10, 8, 6.

(Arched back, chest up, control the negative and explode up. Never bring bar below perpendicular and control the negative. Don’t lock out as the goal is the negative/stretch down and a controlled explosion up to stimulate upper pecs only. If you engage front delts you’ve pressed too high).

Hammer strength flat bench press- 4 sets. 12, 10, 8, 6

(Align handles with chest (roughly at the armpit. Too high or low will engage delts. Chest up, back arched, and fully contract the pec muscles, hold 1-2 seconds and then control the negative with a 3-4 count negative never going below 90 degrees or allowing your rotator cuff/shoulders to feel the load of the negative. Keeping elbows slightly dropped during the moment to only allow pecs to engage).


Decline hammer strength press- 4 sets. 12, 10, 8, 6

(Drop the seat way down until handles align with the armpit crease. This will be lower than most guys sit for this movement. Contract the pec each set and squeeze for 1-2, 3-4 controlled negative/stretch. Never drop elbows allowing delts to be engaged).

Pec or cable fly machine (with back support)- 16, 14, 12 , 10 - drop set 50% weight hold 3 seconds on contraction and 4 seconds on the negative

(Chest up, slightly drop elbows, slightly bend arms- as if you’re giving a hug, hold contraction and flex chest 1-2, 3-4 negative/stretch. On this movement you can slowly stretch into the pecs beyond 90 degrees as long as the pec is being engaged- not the delts. Keeping elbows dropped will make this easy to not break form). On the drops set control and rep out until failure as you want to chase the pump.

Weighed dips- throw on a weight belt with 1-2 plates and rep out 10-12 reps focusing on the negative and stretch. 1-3 sets. Determined by muscle exhaustion.

(keep shoulders in and flair elbows out- this is a chest stretch and finisher, not a tricep exercise. Lean or dip into the movement and control the negative and do not fully lock out as to not engage the delts and triceps) this is a stretch/finisher movement so sets are determined by how much left you have to exhaust the muscle.

With all of the above the is a cohesive theme:

1. Always keep constant tension on the muscle group being worked. This means not breaking form or locking out on set movements.

2. Minimize and do not engage secondary support muscles during the movement- only use them for “stabilization”. This prevents risk of injury and goes back to number 1- keeps constant tension on the muscle.

3. Find your range of motion- never force a movement or go past your body’s personal range of motion. This will vary based on the person, their build, stretching and your physical structure.

Notes: It’s a basic bread and butter workout. Start with the key compound movement- incline. Then target the full chest with flat hammer strength which allows for control. Then a deep seated decline to really contract and carve out the lower pecs. Cable fly to do a final full chest engaging movement with deep controlled stretching to maximize hypertrophy. Then finish with old school dips to stretch and do a final fatigue of the chest.

I never saw or found benefit in doing higher reps. No top set or anything fancy at this time.

It’s not how much weight, but how you control the weight was my theme. Which is compound movements to start for thickness and size and finishing with stretching movements at the end that always induce hypertrophy. Always use as heavy of weight as possible each set.

This is just my opinion and how I trained in the past, my reasons and details on why and how as well. Does not make them fact or right. Just what I did and what worked for me at the time. The same level of thought and detail went into every workout and body part.

I know Milos and many others are big on "pumping nutrient rich blood" into the muscle, paired with shakes, slin, fast acting carbs, and training designed to maximize pump following more heavy duty type training.

Other examples are fst 7 (although Haney talks more about fascia), seths approach to small muscle groups, also nubret or Vince g routines.

Curious with your experience, thoughts on sarcoplasmic or pump type training, or do they merely work not due to "pumping blood" being anabolic but sheer volume and intensity? Also if you do believe in this theory working, do you feel that the preworkout shakes and ingredients and skin are effective in maximizing this stimulus?

 

[bbxtreme]

I know Milos and many others are big on "pumping nutrient rich blood" into the muscle, paired with shakes, slin, fast acting carbs, and training designed to maximize pump following more heavy duty type training.

Other examples are fst 7 (although Haney talks more about fascia), seths approach to small muscle groups, also nubret or Vince g routines.

Curious with your experience, thoughts on sarcoplasmic or pump type training, or do they merely work not due to "pumping blood" being anabolic but sheer volume and intensity? Also if you do believe in this theory working, do you feel that the preworkout shakes and ingredients and skin are effective in maximizing this stimulus?

Good questions and this would take me into part 2 of my experiences which I don’t have time to fully outline today in depth as I like to be objective and thorough.

In short- the techniques are very real and they do work IMO as I’ve done them all. I’m also a huge fan of optimizing the blood flow and maximizing the pump and nutrient uptake.

My take after doing them all- I feel they can be very effective if implemented into a progressive overload style program. But in my experience I’ve lost size and thickness when only doing pump workouts or giant sets. I’ve stuck with giant sets only for arms for 12 weeks for example, but at the end myself and everyone around me commented on how I looked smaller.

It’s my opinion and experience that many misunderstand giant sets and FST sets- they’re not the foundation of the workout. They’re the finisher or pre-exhaust method that can be used to shuttle blood and nutrients to help support the hypertrophy from the working sets and key movements being done.

Hany doesn’t have his guys only doing FST-7 sets the entire workout. Milos doesn’t have clients doing giant sets every workout. They are tools to enhance the workout or to use in prep to fill out and shuttle or deplete glycogen. I can’t remember the last time I saw CBUM, Derek or Hadi do an FST 7 set in their YouTube videos. Maybe I missed them.

I of course am a huge fan of pre and intra supplements and compounds to enhance this process. Maximizing that window is key IMO.

Remember, even high volume training consist of progressive overload. You’re just moving less weight over more reps and sets, but the end net weight moved at the end of the workout should be close to the same if you’re super detailed and want to track to that level.

Again, just my experience, stance and opinion. Other guys may have a different stance and find it extremely beneficial.

 

[aHarness]

Remember, even high volume training consist of progressive overload.

And failure! I hate when people equate high failure to fluff work…

 

[bbxtreme]

And failure! I hate when people equate high failure to fluff work…

Agreed. High rep work can be brutal. IMO all techniques have their place in training and can enhance your foundational work. That’s what makes it bodybuilding. As I learned early on, you can be the strongest guy in the gym, yet be the smallest. The goal of this sport is hypertrophy.

I watched a video of Charles Glass years back and he was asked what his favorite machine was for chest. His response- “whatever is open.” Then went into how guys obsess over machines and exercises when their focus should be on doing “whatever works the muscle the most.” Gotta love simplicity.

 

[showstopper83]

And failure! I hate when people equate high failure to fluff work…

Exactly what i said in my previous post- failure can be at any weight or rep range. Just comes down to how much weight you can do at that particular rep range.

I feel like im cheating myself if i finish an exercise and dont at least come close to failing during my last set.

 

[qbkilla]

Good questions and this would take me into part 2 of my experiences which I don’t have time to fully outline today in depth as I like to be objective and thorough.

In short- the techniques are very real and they do work IMO as I’ve done them all. I’m also a huge fan of optimizing the blood flow and maximizing the pump and nutrient uptake.

My take after doing them all- I feel they can be very effective if implemented into a progressive overload style program. But in my experience I’ve lost size and thickness when only doing pump workouts or giant sets. I’ve stuck with giant sets only for arms for 12 weeks for example, but at the end myself and everyone around me commented on how I looked smaller.

It’s my opinion and experience that many misunderstand giant sets and FST sets- they’re not the foundation of the workout. They’re the finisher or pre-exhaust method that can be used to shuttle blood and nutrients to help support the hypertrophy from the working sets and key movements being done.

Hany doesn’t have his guys only doing FST-7 sets the entire workout. Milos doesn’t have clients doing giant sets every workout. They are tools to enhance the workout or to use in prep to fill out and shuttle or deplete glycogen. I can’t remember the last time I saw CBUM, Derek or Hadi do an FST 7 set in their YouTube videos. Maybe I missed them.

I of course am a huge fan of pre and intra supplements and compounds to enhance this process. Maximizing that window is key IMO.

Remember, even high volume training consist of progressive overload. You’re just moving less weight over more reps and sets, but the end net weight moved at the end of the workout should be close to the same if you’re super detailed and want to track to that level.

Again, just my experience, stance and opinion. Other guys may have a different stance and find it extremely beneficial.

Good stuff, loving this thread and your insight. It seems like most good programs incorporate heavy overload followed by pump training that day (Milos and fst7). Then you have fortitude and powerbuilding ( like Layne Norton PHAT) that have heavy days then strength days. Then I guess some use periodization where they have say 4 weeks of HIT type then 4 weeks of more pump stuff. Do you feel any of these approaches to incorporate both heavy and pump training are better or worse? I assume the "fail safe" method would be like Milos to have heavy and pump work in a single workout for a part .. if we want to make sure each workout gives us a growth stimulus.

 

[bbxtreme]

Good stuff, loving this thread and your insight. It seems like most good programs incorporate heavy overload followed by pump training that day (Milos and fst7). Then you have fortitude and powerbuilding ( like Layne Norton PHAT) that have heavy days then strength days. Then I guess some use periodization where they have say 4 weeks of HIT type then 4 weeks of more pump stuff. Do you feel any of these approaches to incorporate both heavy and pump training are better or worse? I assume the "fail safe" method would be like Milos to have heavy and pump work in a single workout for a part .. if we want to make sure each workout gives us a growth stimulus.

It’s funny you’re walking me through the questions in my own thread. This would be part 3- what do I do now…

But first my personal opinion and experience:

FST 7- Great program overall, but to me in the end it had too much volume. There was a lot of heavy movements blended with high volume and then after that you threw an FST 7 set on top at the end OR in prep a superset FST 7 pre exhaust pair of exercises- I.e dips and cable fly superset for FST 7 to pre
exhaust and then into he heavy training with excess volume. IMO it’s too much blended in a program. High volume plus heavy progressive overload, and an FST 7 set at the end- I over trained a lot personally using the program. Didn’t have the same look cutting down with it that I’d preferred. To be fair I was using HGH, insulin and 2g of gear, but still couldn’t fully feel recovered. But again Hany wrote the program and has more O titles than any coach so it clearly works and has a place. I def should have scaled it back to recover better- this is why you tailor a plan to you and not vice versa.

Mountain Dog- Gamma Bomb and Creeping Death: I loved Gamma bomb and is by far my favorite Meadow’s program- it’s extremely under rated IMO. It was the right mix of volume and heavy overload training with some pump days and work added in. I prepped and competed in 2022 using this program and came in solid.

Creeping death as the name implies is a program that will challenge how bad you want it in the gym. I personally like the original better than the second addition. For guys who love to train hard and heavy and want to push for sheer size this would be the program I’d suggest they use as the base. You will find death if you do it as outlined.

Critiques- it’s hard to critique JM just as it was Hany above. My only critique which I’ve heard from others and coaches as well- there is too much exercise rotation which doesn’t IMO allow you to fully maximize an exercise or weak point. I.e- if you’re rotating back exercises every week over 4 weeks and need to bring up lower lat thickness. Doing a reverse grip dumbbell or barbell row should be your focus and each week you should be building off the previous week to bring up the weak area. By rotating exercises each week you miss that ability to really focus on lagging areas optimally IMO. By the time you’re making progress on a movement you’re done with the program or onto the next one.

It also uses a lot of free weights and compound movements. If you have injuries or are older you will likely have to substitute movements for some of the free weight items like Meadow’s row’s for chest supported overhand row if you have hip issues- rough example.

But again- overall Meadow’s programs are still to this day where I send people looking for a complete program. John loved to train like a an animal and heavy with pure, raw weights so if you like or need machines they won’t be for you. He’s a legend and has a row named after him for a reason. Nobody will ever be able to replace JM.

Giant sets- effective for some for arms and many do well with high volume shoulder work. But IMO giant sets aren’t a long term program for gaining size. It’s great for depletion, loading and for guys maintaining their physique or are pressed for time in the gym.

I could keep going with high frequency or high intensity, but the best programs IMO contain elements of each style as they’re all effective and can have a place.

But what I do now is very similar to what I outlined in my last post. And based on the body part being trained I incorporate methods that align with and enhance that workout. I.e- on my leg days I always finish with the opposing muscle being hit with an FST 7 set. So on quad day I end with an FST 7 set on seated leg curls using holds and stretched negatives on all 7 sets timed.

On ham and glute day I end with an FST 7 set of hack squats with controlled and counted negatives and on the positive to fully engage the quads. I’m trying to bring my legs back up after 6 months of a set back in late 2022. So I use foundational exercises just as I described in my last post, but I throw in techniques to enhance my workouts to bring up lagging areas. I also don’t rotate exercises until I have maxed out a movement which will generally be 12 weeks in my experience. Then I revisit the outline.

The same applies to every other body part- I now start chest day with an FST-5 set on back supported cable fly with holds and counted negatives. Most forget that FST7 is 4-7 sets. It’s not straight to 7. You start with 4 and build.

The other thing I do now that I would have done differently is use hammer strength and machines. I was taught to train heavy as hell and never touched a machine or cable. You wouldn’t be caught dead on the cables when I was younger in a bodybuilding gym. Golds hardly had machines. I will always love to train heavy, but if I could do it over I would have introduced hammer strength, smith and set machines sooner to prevent injuries. My AC in my left shoulder is beat to hell. I loved barbell military press and incline barbell. It caught up to me a few times. Admittedly I still can’t stay away from incline barbell with impeccable form, but it’s only after a pre-exhaust exercise and won’t go below 8 reps.

I could go on for hours about training as I’m sure we all could. But that’s my take and now it’s time to let other guys on here share their routines and experiences. Training is about finding what is sustainable and works for your body. Anything beyond that is just over complicating it IMO.