What do you carry

[Marvin Martian]

I would really like to open an intelligent discussion on when you can legally shoot vs when you think you can legally shoot but would end up in jail. I present the following scenario for the purpose of discussion. You are the victim of a road rage incident in which you both end up pulled over on the side of the road. The other driver approaches your car holding a lug wrench in his hand and proceeds to smash your windshield while you are sitting in your car. At this point can you legally shoot or do you produce your weapon and warn him to back off. My opinion is that if you shoot you could possibly end up in jail because even though he appeared to want to harm you he may have stopped at just breaking your windshield even though you weren't sure. At what point do you assume you are in danger of great physical harm and kill another human being? I think the right choice would be to warn him to back off. What do you think? How do you handle this or similar situations when you are armed? There is a great responsibility to carrying a firearm and knowing when and how you can use it.

You are correct in my opinion. While I don’t necessarily thinks it’s always a good idea to wait around and see just how bad someone wants to f you up - I do think that self control is paramount.
We have to be stronger than our fear. Acting PURELY from fear is weak.

 

[boxer cam]

Woke up in a good mood, until I seen this thread and remembered how shit Australian gun laws are compared to the USA. No choice but to be a victim in Australia.

Have owned a custom built colt 1911 in 38 super and a modified S&W 686 in 357 mag for IPSC practical pistol. Going to get back into it, but can't have more than 10 round mag, shorter than 120mm barrel or larger than 38 cal projectile. Rules out so many cool pistols.

I'm on farm 99% of time, where I can carry a rifle or shotgun, but still not allowed to use a pistol on farm. A S&W Governor loaded with 410 would be a lot more convenient for poisonous snakes, than carrying a full size shotgun.

Any of you guys using or used a Walther PPX for CCW or IPSC? I would like to get one for my return to IPSC, but going to cost a fortune after custom longer barrel and reduced capacity mags.

 

[RLTW<3>]

This is crazy talk, I use a Browing A-blot Medallion .270 with Nosler ballistic tips 170 gr for hunting deer 1 shot and its down. Why would you want to pump it full of lead, ruin all the meat! I can hit a deer running full tilt through the woods and it will slide on its face and roll with one shot! You can watch the fur fly after a hit, no reason to keep shooting, unless I know I didn't hit it

You didn’t see my response to his message LOL. I asked him if he likes preshredded beef

 

[Gunsmith]

My deer would disagree

It's painfully obvious that some folks don't know much about ballistics or shot many living critters.

Incapacitating your target has much more to do with the quality of the bullet used and location of the shot than the caliber of the weapon.

It's always funny to see how many discussions turn into arguments over what caliber is better and why and 99.5% of the information is some he said she said shit. I especially like the guys that are convinced that their pappies old 1911 45 kills better than the new "plastic gun" , "the 1911 in 45 caliber clean knocks a man off his feet" LMFAO

 

[chinaboy]

I would really like to open an intelligent discussion on when you can legally shoot vs when you think you can legally shoot but would end up in jail. I present the following scenario for the purpose of discussion. You are the victim of a road rage incident in which you both end up pulled over on the side of the road. The other driver approaches your car holding a lug wrench in his hand and proceeds to smash your windshield while you are sitting in your car. At this point can you legally shoot or do you produce your weapon and warn him to back off. My opinion is that if you shoot you could possibly end up in jail because even though he appeared to want to harm you he may have stopped at just breaking your windshield even though you weren't sure. At what point do you assume you are in danger of great physical harm and kill another human being? I think the right choice would be to warn him to back off. What do you think? How do you handle this or similar situations when you are armed? There is a great responsibility to carrying a firearm and knowing when and how you can use it.

You drive away. If you shoot the person you are a murderer.

If you stopped the car and shot a person. That's pretty much intent to kill.

If you can get away and you didn't, then chose to shoot a person. That's murder man.

 

[RLTW<3>]

It's painfully obvious that some folks don't know much about ballistics or shot many living critters.

Incapacitating your target has much more to do with the quality of the bullet used and location of the shot than the caliber of the weapon.

It's always funny to see how many discussions turn into arguments over what caliber is better and why and 99.5% of the information is some he said she said shit. I especially like the guys that are convinced that their pappies old 1911 45 kills better than the new "plastic gun" , "the 1911 in 45 caliber clean knocks a man off his feet" LMFAO

LOL you’re so right. I know a salty ole team sergeant that will damn near say Verbatim what you wrote about the 1911 LoL. All joking aside, Your spot on about discussions turn into arguments.
I know I’m sure to piss off a few hunters, but if I’m hunting hog, I simply place my shot to the ear or eye. Reason I do that: less distance to travel to haul back the hog to the truck and thisway I don’t fuckup the meat since I like wild game. Now I’m sure people are gonna call BS on this and that, but when you look through sites and/or a scope for a living, a living that’s been going on for 12 and a half years, you learn to be pretty damned good at it. TherowdyRanger can attest to that. Him and I are batt brothers(he was medically retired few years back tho)

 

[Gunsmith]

I would really like to open an intelligent discussion on when you can legally shoot vs when you think you can legally shoot but would end up in jail. I present the following scenario for the purpose of discussion. You are the victim of a road rage incident in which you both end up pulled over on the side of the road. The other driver approaches your car holding a lug wrench in his hand and proceeds to smash your windshield while you are sitting in your car. At this point can you legally shoot or do you produce your weapon and warn him to back off. My opinion is that if you shoot you could possibly end up in jail because even though he appeared to want to harm you he may have stopped at just breaking your windshield even though you weren't sure. At what point do you assume you are in danger of great physical harm and kill another human being? I think the right choice would be to warn him to back off. What do you think? How do you handle this or similar situations when you are armed? There is a great responsibility to carrying a firearm and knowing when and how you can use it.

There are alot of variables , if you pulled over voluntarily that could be seen as a sign of aggression , but you could argue that you did it because the guys was driving wreckless.

If the guy gets out and you have the ability to leave then that can make you look like an aggressor if your state doesn't have a stand your ground law. Hell in some states if someone comes into your house and you decide to stay and fight you can end up in prison.

There is SOOOO much that gets analized in a shooting that most people don't have a clue about if they aren't LE that's investigated a shooting.

If you as a citizen have to shoot someone in self defense you better bet your ass that EVERYTHING will be scrutinized , EVERYTHING.!!! post made on social media , your past history if there is anything on a police record , previous relationships , current mental status as if you are stressed from work , and and all drugs including steroids will be brought into question and after all of that gets sorted out and the law decides you were fully justified in using deadly force NOW it's highly likely that you will go through this same shit again in a civil case for wrongful death.

EVERYONE I teach learns cases where it seem like the shooting was totally justifiable ends up with the shooter going to jail. Shooting someone is the absolute last thing that anyone wants to do because no matter what , life as you know it is over.!!

Even just showing your gun to a guy that's threatened to beat you with a tire tool can land you in jail for no.less than brandishing a weapon , all the way to aggrivated assault.

 

[needthepump]

I carry a Glock 19 (9mm) with 115 or 124 grain hollow points. Most important thing is knowing the laws in your state. They vary so much. In some states you are expected to try to escape first even in your own home. That's Insanity. I believe Pennsylvania has this law. The states with castle doctrine laws are far better. Simply put, if someone forces their way into your home and you fear for your life you can use deadly force. They don't have to have a weapon...it's the perception that they are in your house at 0200 to do bad things to your family. States with stand your ground lasts further protect the gun owner. There is also the disparity of force law that allows deadly force if you are attacked by multiple attackers. The same law allows a 110 lb woman to shoot a 220 lb man attacking her. It is perseved that he can over power her and kill her. Which is true of course. It's very important to know your state laws. God bless places like Texas.

 

[tgiles1]

It's painfully obvious that some folks don't know much about ballistics or shot many living critters.

Incapacitating your target has much more to do with the quality of the bullet used and location of the shot than the caliber of the weapon.

It's always funny to see how many discussions turn into arguments over what caliber is better and why and 99.5% of the information is some he said she said shit. I especially like the guys that are convinced that their pappies old 1911 45 kills better than the new "plastic gun" , "the 1911 in 45 caliber clean knocks a man off his feet" LMFAO

I always laugh when I hear people say glocks are inferior because they're made out of plastic. My local pd torture tested the gen 4 glocks when they came out. The only way they were able to get it to stop working was they stuck a snickers up the Magwell and closed the slide making it unsafe to shoot for the rest of the day.

 

[boxer cam]

It's painfully obvious that some folks don't know much about ballistics or shot many living critters.

Incapacitating your target has much more to do with the quality of the bullet used and location of the shot than the caliber of the weapon.

It's always funny to see how many discussions turn into arguments over what caliber is better and why and 99.5% of the information is some he said she said shit. I especially like the guys that are convinced that their pappies old 1911 45 kills better than the new "plastic gun" , "the 1911 in 45 caliber clean knocks a man off his feet" LMFAO

Indeed. I've got 3 different loads for my 223/5.56 depending on what I'm shooting.

Powder coated cast lead projectiles pushed by Trailboss powder for rabbits.

Sierra 55gn Blitzkings pushed by ADI Benchmark 2 (known as benchmark in USA) for foxes, cats and kangaroos. Can do rabbits with these, but not much left to eat.

Nosler 64gn bonded performance (BSB) pushed by benchmark 2 for goats and deer. The weight retention gives so much more penetration than the blitzkings and less fragments to dig out come meal time.

 

[RLTW<3>]

There’s two things. The Castle doctrine and, the stand your ground law. Some states have one or the other and some have both. Cliff Notes version, stand your ground essentially is the same thing as the Castle doctrine but you can be on the sidewalk out in public. .Castle doctrine applies to your home and I believe anything on your property line. Now some states have different little parts to it, like if you have a fenced and enclosed yard but for the most part The meat and potatoes is the same. Now Let one of these guys that knows laws and statutes chime in and finish for me please

 

[needthepump]

PS. As a man with a CCW you are expected not to shoot a guy your size ...you are to fight him. We don't get the disparity of force coverage like women do. If he overpowers you are starts banging your head into the concrete (attempted murder) you can shot and be justified. This was George Zimmerman's defense. Eye witnesess saw travon kicking his ass and on top of him, Zimmerman had a broken nose and was bleeding from the back of his head.

 

[Reload]

A bat

 

[Gunsmith]

PS. As a man with a CCW you are expected not to shoot a guy your size ...you are to fight him. We don't get the disparity of force coverage like women do. If he overpowers you are starts banging your head into the concrete (attempted murder) you can shot and be justified. This was George Zimmerman's defend. Eye witnesess saw travon kicking his ass and on top of him, Zimmerman had a broken nose and was bleeding from the back of his head.

If you wanna make things even more confusing , try to figure out when you can shoot someone for beating someone else's ass.

 

[Anubis]

if EVERYONE carried (who legally can carry)the world would be a much safer place..

Unfortunately truly evil people ONLY understand violence and ONLY the threat of violence can keep them in check. It’s very naive to think that “controlling” the ability of law abiding people can have anything other than a negative impact on safety.!

Of course - if everyone practiced self discipline and meditated daily - there would be no need for weapons. I guess the best one can do is practice these disciplines while also remaining vigilantly prepared to counter violence.

lol, EVERYONE? have you stepped outside and seen how many truly stupid careless people are out there. My buddy just messaged me today to tell me he was walking behind an old lady and she thought he was getting to close so she tossed her hot coffee at him and screamed for help. He was in a suit on his lunch break and he's white lol, this old bitch would've shot him if she had a gun lol...trust me not everybody should have a gun.

 

[RLTW<3>]

If you wanna make things even more confusing , try to figure out when you can shoot someone for beating someone else's ass.

Yeh no shit bro. Isn’t there something called the Good Samaritan act of clause?

 

[needthepump]

Cali gun laws are getting crazy. It's not even liberal laws anymore, it's becoming extremist liberal laws.

California still has a decent castle doctrine law on the books even though the loony liberals here are trying to ban all the guns.

 

[needthepump]

You drive away. If you shoot the person you are a murderer.

If you stopped the car and shot a person. That's pretty much intent to kill.

If you can get away and you didn't, then chose to shoot a person. That's murder man.

This is correct. You don't pull over to the side of the road and play tough guy in the first place. Now if the guy follows you all the way to your house, pulls out the bar and attacks you outside your car that takes it to the level of a justified shooting in my state.

 

[maldorf]

I don't think there is ever a case where the shooter would be found not guilty of something if the gunshot victim was shot in the back, right? Even if it is in your home and your state has the castle doctrine. I could see a scenario where you have a home invader at 3 am and it is pitch dark. You wake up and grab your pistol. You creep slowly down the stairs and see someone's silhouette. You think you see them lunge at you and you shoot and hit them and they drop. You turn on the lights and apparently the guy was trying to run from you. Turns out you shot him in the back. You would be in deep shit, right?

 

[needthepump]

Regarding the greatly debated caliber wars, when I use to work in the ER, we could not tell the difference between a 9mm, 40, or 45 wounds. The wounds looked identical. Cops would ask the doctors all the time as part of the investigation but there was no obvious answer. Now shotguns and high powered rifles were a different story with what they did to the body. If some meth addict is breaking I to your house at 2am, I highly suggest you have a shotgun or rifle in your arsenal. Handguns in general are not good stoppers compared to the other two. Not even close
Most handgun shooting victims live. The home invaders are a different type of criminal. Most crooks that want to steal your stuff case your place see when you aren't there and steal your stuff when you are at work. The home invaders knows you are home and they don't care. They are willing to confront you to get what they want.... rape? Murder? Both have been known to happen in home invasion robberies. Gun owners should be preparing to deal with this type of criminal by becoming a hard target. Security lights? Cameras? An aggressive dog? All great options. Training in the weapons again and again is vital. Role play situations with the family about safe rooms setting up a safe shooting alley etc.