What do you carry

[needthepump]

I don't think there is ever a case where the shooter would be found not guilty of something if the gunshot victim was shot in the back, right? Even if it is in your home and your state has the castle doctrine. I could see a scenario where you have a home invader at 3 am and it is pitch dark. You wake up and grab your pistol. You creep slowly down the stairs and see someone's silhouette. You think you see them lunge at you and you shoot and hit them and they drop. You turn on the lights and apparently the guy was trying to run from you. Turns out you shot him in the back. You would be in deep shit, right?

It's all how you explain the story to the cops and ultimately your counties district attorney. The cases I have read where shooting the bad guy home invaders in the back sent the home owner to jail were when they run out of your house unarmed and get shot in the back. In my state and many others, all that is needed is a bad guy forced entry and you feared for your life. Castle doctrine would cover the person. Claiming you thought he had a weapon obviously helps ones case. In darkness, he can easily get shot in the side or back. It's the percieved threat that is key. We don't say "sir excuse me do you have a weapon on you." A weapon is not needed in many states. If he does have a knife or gun and you shoot him in the back it's a different situation as they could easily turn and shoot you (or raise their arm behind them to shoot you) or throw the knife at you from a sideways position.

 

[maldorf]

It's all how you explain the story to the cops and ultimately your counties district attorney. The cases I have read where shooting the bad guy home invaders in the back were when they run out of your house and get shot. In my state and many others, all that is needed is a bad guy forced entry and you feared for your life. Castle doctrine would cover the person. Claiming you thought he had a weapon obviously helps ones case. In darkness, he can easily get shot in the side or back. It's the percieved threat that is key. We don't say "sir excuse me do you have a weapon on you." A weapon is not needed in many states. If he does have a knife or gun and you shoot him in the back it's a different situation as they could easily turn and shoot you or throw the knife at you from s sideways position.

Ive been told that if you think someone is breaking into your home that you are best to just call 911 and stay where you are with the gun. If the invader comes at you then you shoot, but don't go looking for them. I don't think the law looks kindly on you if you are trying to protect your stuff from being stolen. Personally I would want to go downstairs and drive them away from the house. Probably the worst thing to do though. I always set the burglar alarm when I got to sleep, so that would be going off anyhow.

 

[needthepump]

Definitely call 911 as it shows you are truly in fear and it's gets the cops rolling to your place. I would then get the family in a safe spot and be ready for what may come to you. It could be multiple people and our self defense plans should account for this.

 

[little slice]

or if you're Swedish, just offer up the boipucci



















SO TOLERANT!!!!

 

[buck]

Just depends
Springfield XDS 9mm
Kahr PM9
Smith 629PD
Smith 386PD
Smith 642
Just depends. Course they are only a stop gap to help me get to my shotgun, AR or AK

 

[Tom]

There are alot of variables , if you pulled over voluntarily that could be seen as a sign of aggression , but you could argue that you did it because the guys was driving wreckless.

If the guy gets out and you have the ability to leave then that can make you look like an aggressor if your state doesn't have a stand your ground law. Hell in some states if someone comes into your house and you decide to stay and fight you can end up in prison.

There is SOOOO much that gets analized in a shooting that most people don't have a clue about if they aren't LE that's investigated a shooting.

If you as a citizen have to shoot someone in self defense you better bet your ass that EVERYTHING will be scrutinized , EVERYTHING.!!! post made on social media , your past history if there is anything on a police record , previous relationships , current mental status as if you are stressed from work , and and all drugs including steroids will be brought into question and after all of that gets sorted out and the law decides you were fully justified in using deadly force NOW it's highly likely that you will go through this same shit again in a civil case for wrongful death.

EVERYONE I teach learns cases where it seem like the shooting was totally justifiable ends up with the shooter going to jail. Shooting someone is the absolute last thing that anyone wants to do because no matter what , life as you know it is over.!!

Even just showing your gun to a guy that's threatened to beat you with a tire tool can land you in jail for no.less than brandishing a weapon , all the way to aggrivated assault.

Thank you for stating this in such a clear and concise manner ! This is so very important to anyone who carries or even owns a firearm for home protection.

 

[Samson250]

This thread is blowing up! No pun. You guys were itching to talk guns around here!

 

[Gunsmith]

Yeh no shit bro. Isn’t there something called the Good Samaritan act of clause?

Some areas have "good samaritan" law , unfortunately the eyes of Justice are not blind and each case has different circumstances and unfortunately different "rules"

For instance , if you are a 5'1" 90 pound female and you pull up on a couple guys fighting. One man is mounted the other steadily bashing his face screaming "I'm gonna kill you" the bottom guy is beaten defenseless so you draw you legal weapon demand the suspect stop then fire one well placed shot killing him. In this case more than likely you will be exonerated in a justifiable homicide case.
Now if I role up on the same situation at 6'2" 280 pounds with extensive hand to hand training and follow the exact same roll the woman did I'm going to be looked at as a trigger happy killer because I "could" have physically stopped the attack. I might have a hard time getting a justifiable homicide win and most definitely have a bitch of a time when it goes to civil court.
Now for the third situation
It's exactly the same as the second only this time I'm an off duty law enforcement. I'll have less issues getting off on justifiable homicide than the woman did because of my job title , I'll be looked at as a cop and an "expert" in the situation.
I'm not even going to get into the racial aspects that are all to comment these days.
Everything is case by case even in states that have very pro gun laws you may be in a county or city that have a fucktarded anti gun DA or Chief Law officer.

And like I mentioned before , you entire past is going to be looked at , if you make pro gun post or what can be seen at "pro violence" post on social media , if you are a member of a shooting club , if you have taken any formal shooting classes , if you have any history of violence , drug use (including steroids) any combat experience ESPECIALLY if you have been in combat you may be looked at as having PTSD which seems to be the most common fuckin diagnosis in the world now.

When you carry you must realize that EVERY situation you encounter is an armed one from arguing over a parking spot to stopping a mass shooting. There are million different things that can go wrong when you pull a gun from mistaken identity to missing your target and shooting a bystander. Every bullet you fire has a shit bag lawyer attached to it with a hard on just waiting to fuck up your life , if you choose the wrong round because of what some gun rag said was the best according to the FBI test and shoot someone and that bullet over penetrates and hits an innocent person you can be charged the same as shooting that person.

EVERYBODY that carries a gun needs to do extensive research on past shooting in there area and how they turned out , learn everything they can about the use of deadly force IN YOUR AREA , think long and hard if taking someones life is a burden you are willing to live with because the instant you pull the trigger you're life just went into the twilight zone , you and your family will he scrutinized and judged for what you did.

I personally carry everywhere , my thinking is that the possible burden coming from a shooting is less than the regret of not being able to protect my family or anyone else.

 

[chadd7]

Thats ridiculous. How will his knee depress the grip safety and pull the trigger. I think its silly to keep a gun in plain sight in a vehicle and a place where it can get knocked around but the gun won't go off without it being gripped and the trigger pulled.

It also has a palm grip that needs to be engaged before it will fire too. Pretty much impossible. And I don't leave it there when I'm not in my truck. It gets locked in my glove box.

 

[chadd7]

lol, EVERYONE? have you stepped outside and seen how many truly stupid careless people are out there. My buddy just messaged me today to tell me he was walking behind an old lady and she thought he was getting to close so she tossed her hot coffee at him and screamed for help. He was in a suit on his lunch break and he's white lol, this old bitch would've shot him if she had a gun lol...trust me not everybody should have a gun.

Good thing he wasn't black because then it would have been justified. lol

 

[dale338]

I would really like to open an intelligent discussion on when you can legally shoot vs when you think you can legally shoot but would end up in jail. I present the following scenario for the purpose of discussion. You are the victim of a road rage incident in which you both end up pulled over on the side of the road. The other driver approaches your car holding a lug wrench in his hand and proceeds to smash your windshield while you are sitting in your car. At this point can you legally shoot or do you produce your weapon and warn him to back off. My opinion is that if you shoot you could possibly end up in jail because even though he appeared to want to harm you he may have stopped at just breaking your windshield even though you weren't sure. At what point do you assume you are in danger of great physical harm and kill another human being? I think the right choice would be to warn him to back off. What do you think? How do you handle this or similar situations when you are armed? There is a great responsibility to carrying a firearm and knowing when and how you can use it.

Other's might disagree, but it depends. Did you stop the car to stand your ground? The driving conditions were unsafe due to the other driver threatening you off the road? etc. Or did you stop the car to engage in a fight? etc.

If this were say a cop and you ran up to his car swinging a crow bar and bashed out his window, you can bet your last dollar he's going to shoot your ass and justifiably so. Unfortunately, the general public doesn't get that leeway.

Myself, as someone who does not want to have to shoot someone, would stomp on the gas the moment he showed he was gonna swing that crowbar, or at the very least, i'd see if you stopped after breaking my window. If his next move was to swing that bar at my head, then maybe. But before you shoot someone, unless you want 12 jurors deciding your life, if there is any other option, you have to take that option. If you can get away, take it.

You have to think of it in these terms. If they situation comes to a point where it's literally you or him, you won't care in that moment about how it looks. It's about survival in that moment. You know this guy is going to take your head off with that crowbar and you can't escape, then you have to shoot him. If it's anything short of that, then you're likely going to be charged with something.

 

[11111]

or if you're Swedish, just offer up the boipucci

damn, little slice, i swear i have to google half of the words you post up on here... and i'm actually a milennial!!!

 

[ferraribrad]

https://carrylaws.net/california-counties/

I hear it is much tougher to get a CCW in California. Are there a lot more hoops you have to jump through there, and a lot more fees to pay? Just curious. I live in the Midwest where it is easy but don't have one yet. I'm thinking about it. I have a buddy that is a certified instructor so I guess I could have him instruct me. Seems like here you just take the classes and that is about it.

Is it right that in California you have to demonstrate some kind of reason that you "need" to carry a gun? Like they wont approve it unless you have what they see as a real genuine need for one?

 

[chadd7]

It's way too easy to get a permit here in PA. I honestly think you should have to take a class before receiving it. Classroom and at the range.

 

[Landmonster]

The gold standard is this:


If you shoot someone, you need to literally be in fear of your life or serious bodily injury. You'd also better be prepared to justify it.


There's a billlion possible scenarios, and shades of grey. If a scenario gives you a realistic chance to escape, drive away, or take some alternative measure to avoid killing someone, you probably should.

On the other hand, if you're thinking "This guy is literally going to kill/maim/rape me if I don't shoot and stop him right now", that's the time you need to shoot.

i.e. #1, if you're sitting in your car, and he's standing outside your car and waving a tire iron making threatening gestures, you cannot shoot him. He's not an imminent threat to your life at that moment.
i.e. #2, if you're standing in a parking lot, and he comes sprinting towards you waving a tire iron screaming "I'm gonna bash your head in mofo!", then yes, you should probably shoot him. You are in fear for your life or severe bodily harm if you don't act.

 

[Landmonster]

You have to think of it in these terms. If they situation comes to a point where it's literally you or him, you won't care in that moment about how it looks. It's about survival in that moment. You know this guy is going to take your head off with that crowbar and you can't escape, then you have to shoot him. If it's anything short of that, then you're likely going to be charged with something.

That's a good way to put it. You need to legitimately be in fear for your life in that moment, and there needs to be no other obvious solution like escaping or talking him down.

Here's the other thing: Sadly, even if you are freed in a criminal court of any wrong-doing, you can still be sued in a civil court. Your actions need to look as reasonable as possible.


Side note: Most of here will be at a civil disadvantage, being 240lb+ weightlifters.

 

[PUMPJUNKY]

One day your knee will hit that safety and you’ll have an accidental firing.

Former Marine infantry, 0311 and sheriff deputy, I strongly advise you to rethink your carry.

A double action pull won’t set you back that much.

If that happens you have a major sear issue. I have 1911s with extremely lite trigger pulls and you can't make the hammer drop unless you pull the trigger. 1911s also have a grip safety that you have to depress to be able to pull the trigger. The 1911 is meant be carried cocked and locked just like the picture.

Sent from my SM-N920R7 using Professional Muscle mobile app

 

[maldorf]

Some areas have "good samaritan" law , unfortunately the eyes of Justice are not blind and each case has different circumstances and unfortunately different "rules"

For instance , if you are a 5'1" 90 pound female and you pull up on a couple guys fighting. One man is mounted the other steadily bashing his face screaming "I'm gonna kill you" the bottom guy is beaten defenseless so you draw you legal weapon demand the suspect stop then fire one well placed shot killing him. In this case more than likely you will be exonerated in a justifiable homicide case.
Now if I role up on the same situation at 6'2" 280 pounds with extensive hand to hand training and follow the exact same roll the woman did I'm going to be looked at as a trigger happy killer because I "could" have physically stopped the attack. I might have a hard time getting a justifiable homicide win and most definitely have a bitch of a time when it goes to civil court.
Now for the third situation
It's exactly the same as the second only this time I'm an off duty law enforcement. I'll have less issues getting off on justifiable homicide than the woman did because of my job title , I'll be looked at as a cop and an "expert" in the situation.
I'm not even going to get into the racial aspects that are all to comment these days.
Everything is case by case even in states that have very pro gun laws you may be in a county or city that have a fucktarded anti gun DA or Chief Law officer.

And like I mentioned before , you entire past is going to be looked at , if you make pro gun post or what can be seen at "pro violence" post on social media , if you are a member of a shooting club , if you have taken any formal shooting classes , if you have any history of violence , drug use (including steroids) any combat experience ESPECIALLY if you have been in combat you may be looked at as having PTSD which seems to be the most common fuckin diagnosis in the world now.

When you carry you must realize that EVERY situation you encounter is an armed one from arguing over a parking spot to stopping a mass shooting. There are million different things that can go wrong when you pull a gun from mistaken identity to missing your target and shooting a bystander. Every bullet you fire has a shit bag lawyer attached to it with a hard on just waiting to fuck up your life , if you choose the wrong round because of what some gun rag said was the best according to the FBI test and shoot someone and that bullet over penetrates and hits an innocent person you can be charged the same as shooting that person.

EVERYBODY that carries a gun needs to do extensive research on past shooting in there area and how they turned out , learn everything they can about the use of deadly force IN YOUR AREA , think long and hard if taking someones life is a burden you are willing to live with because the instant you pull the trigger you're life just went into the twilight zone , you and your family will he scrutinized and judged for what you did.

I personally carry everywhere , my thinking is that the possible burden coming from a shooting is less than the regret of not being able to protect my family or anyone else.

How about the Kate Steinle case, what a mess that was. The illegal immigrant got off without any punishment at all I believe. They ruled it an accident, even though the gun was stolen.

 

[maldorf]

https://carrylaws.net/california-counties/

I see it isn't a state wide thing, but by county. Napa county reads this: " Complete an application, which includes, personal and employment information, the description of weapons you intend to carry and have a VALID reason for wanting to carry a concealed weapon." Notice how valid is in all caps. I bet that is for a reason.

Sounds like the sanctuary status there, some counties are now fighting that and saying they want to comply with the feds. Maybe the state will split up some day.

 

[maldorf]

It's way too easy to get a permit here in PA. I honestly think you should have to take a class before receiving it. Classroom and at the range.

Oh, an individual isn't required to take a conceal carry class? I thought all states did that.