Constant improvement - some thoughts

[mountaindog1]

MD.. I highly agree with you about fiber.. I think we can obtain enough from fruits and vegetables. I am not a fan of fiber supplements or even alot of complex carbs.. Too much fiber sits in the gut and is a breeding ground for bad bacteria.. Also don't like the fact that starchy foods like (beans, rice, grains) carry alot of phytic acid.. That is why proper soaking/sproating is so important to reduce phytic acid levels.. Another reason I like white rice over brown... I also think bodybuilders would be better off eating more organ meats, bone broths, and wild shellfish (clams, oysters, mussels, shrimp, etc.). They are just nutritional powerhouses carrying an abundance of fat-soluble vitamins...

Yes sir. I do have some starch prior to training though, with some fat, so I can slowly elevate insulin levels....then jam it during training....agree 100% with you my friend. I don't remember the last time I had brown rice.

My digestive system is REALLY sensitive as you know, and too much fiber kills me..leaves me in pain....and I don't remember the last time I had brown rice..haha..

JM

 

[itrain]

MD.. I highly agree with you about fiber.. I think we can obtain enough from fruits and vegetables. I am not a fan of fiber supplements or even alot of complex carbs.. Too much fiber sits in the gut and is a breeding ground for bad bacteria.. Also don't like the fact that starchy foods like (beans, rice, grains) carry alot of phytic acid.. That is why proper soaking/sproating is so important to reduce phytic acid levels.. Another reason I like white rice over brown... I also think bodybuilders would be better off eating more organ meats, bone broths, and wild shellfish (clams, oysters, mussels, shrimp, etc.). They are just nutritional powerhouses carrying an abundance of fat-soluble vitamins...

That would be nice but when trying to consume 2-400grams of protein a day that quality becomes too expensive.... theres better things to spend money on

I too TKAV have opted for more protein shakes based on BV ratings and price per serving( .19cents) and have seen no difference except smaller waist ratio zero bloat, more energy (i guess its due to less digesting as it already in a digested state (liquid) ready to be absorbed add (fats and/or carbs) depending on goals

 

[mountaindog1]

I would like to hear John's opinion on this statement. I used to think that was true but not anymore. Sure you could survive on nothing but fat and protein but is it optimal like youre saying?

I'll probably offend some people with my answer....but this is where science and real world clash, you need to understand application. Do you NEED carbs...no. Will they make your physique better if used/timed properly yes. There is no doubt about it.

Trust me, I love healthy fats, anybody that knows me is aware of that. I do like to run on fats during the day. But I question the intensity of someone's training if they say they are doing intense training on low carbs, and i would also question their recovery as insulin is so anti-catabolic, and a shot of leucine will only get you so much...you don't recover fast..you get inflammed...too much, and your insulin sensitivity actually goes down....not good.

JM

 

[tkav1980]

MD.. I highly agree with you about fiber.. I think we can obtain enough from fruits and vegetables. I am not a fan of fiber supplements or even alot of complex carbs.. Too much fiber sits in the gut and is a breeding ground for bad bacteria.. Also don't like the fact that starchy foods like (beans, rice, grains) carry alot of phytic acid.. That is why proper soaking/sproating is so important to reduce phytic acid levels.. Another reason I like white rice over brown... I also think bodybuilders would be better off eating more organ meats, bone broths, and wild shellfish (clams, oysters, mussels, shrimp, etc.). They are just nutritional powerhouses carrying an abundance of fat-soluble vitamins...

You really need to come eat at my restaurant or hell even my house. Living right near the bay has it's benefits in the summer.

 

[mountaindog1]

This is probably true. But no one is taking my sweet potato and fruits away from me, for a bodybuilding diet to work it had to be maintainable and enjoyable, for me personally a carb free diet is neither. Also i hate the flat look of no carbs. Carbs keep me full and veiny

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This is a great point Sammy. If you hate what you eat day to day..feel like crap..etc...eventually you will quit. You have to enjoy this is you want do it long term. Just like training. You can tell the people who are really passionate about it and enjoy it like Hellbilly....he will be training until he is 100 years old.

JM

 

[maldorf]

At the cellular level:
-The efficiency of gluconeogenesis = it's only around 57% (very poor)
-Deleteriously high demands on the liver and kidneys (due to needing to get rid of the extra nitrogen/urea). Also blood pH must be consider.

That is what I was thinking, about the 57% efficiency. I didnt consider the demand on the kidneys but thats probably a factor. 2 very good points.. How is pH affected?

 

[maldorf]

I'll probably offend some people with my answer....but this is where science and real world clash, you need to understand application. Do you NEED carbs...no. Will they make your physique better if used/timed properly yes. There is no doubt about it.

Trust me, I love healthy fats, anybody that knows me is aware of that. I do like to run on fats during the day. But I question the intensity of someone's training if they say they are doing intense training on low carbs, and i would also question their recovery as insulin is so anti-catabolic, and a shot of leucine will only get you so much...you don't recover fast..you get inflammed...too much, and your insulin sensitivity actually goes down....not good.

JM

Makes a lot of sense, common sense. RIght around training time take in some carbs pre and post .

 

[mountaindog1]

matt/FF also made a comment about carbs keeping your pancreas "in shape". I 100% agree with this too.


JM

 

[FutureFreak]

matt/FF also made a comment about carbs keeping your pancreas "in shape". I 100% agree with this too.


JM

I think I'll have to let you test out a potential future peri-workout set of drinks I am helping design.

It will augment anabolic hyperemia at its finest! Mtor signaling, insulin signaling, hyperaminoacidemia, etc,,, will be very cool for people to employ AROUND training while focusing on essential fats and proteins at other times of the day to keep insulin quiet.

-FF/Matt lol

 

[chris250]

Honeslty the more I think I know, the more confused I get...lol

high carbs, moderate carbs, moderate fats, high fats, high protein, moderate protein...more cardio, less cardio...HIT training, volume training, ect, ect, ect....Ive been in this sport for 20 plus years now, and now im more confused than ever....lol !!!

 

[itrain]

Honeslty the more I think I know, the more confused I get...lol

high carbs, moderate carbs, moderate fats, high fats, high protein, moderate protein...more cardio, less cardio...HIT training, volume training, ect, ect, ect....Ive been in this sport for 20 plus years now, and now im more confused than ever....lol !!!

Your physique proves other wise chris in all that confusion you have seemed to do something rite... I think the more you know the more difficult and complex things become because there are so many more outlooks , experiments, ideas and protocols one can implement...

In the end THERE ISNT ONE WAY TO THE TOP... i think we can agree but there sure as well is BETTER and FASTER way

MOUNTAINDOG any comments on my QUESTIONS??

 

[bigguns078]

That would be nice but when trying to consume 2-400grams of protein a day that quality becomes too expensive.... theres better things to spend money on

I believe you can get the same results eating higher quality protein in lesser amounts.. So the cost is offset.. Also, bones and organ meats are cheap!

 

[kinglewy]

I know some consider the importance of the post workout window questionable(atleast I know BNS does), but I looked my best ever in life when I would eat zero carbs throughout the day and immediately after my workout I would eat the entire days worth of carbs with a high protein meal. Doing this I gained a ton of strength and muscle and actually lost fat at the same time all 100% natural and not even having access to protein powders or vitamins.

 

[warrenpeace]

Examples of organ meats? Liver?

I decided to give brown rice a go a few months back. In that week my bathroom issues were SIGNIFICANT. White rice, yams and fruits and I'm good to go. Not so with brown rice.

 

[Tinyshrek]

Brown rice is cancer lol!!

 

[mountaindog1]

I know some consider the importance of the post workout window questionable(atleast I know BNS does), but I looked my best ever in life when I would eat zero carbs throughout the day and immediately after my workout I would eat the entire days worth of carbs with a high protein meal. Doing this I gained a ton of strength and muscle and actually lost fat at the same time all 100% natural and not even having access to protein powders or vitamins.

You found that in REAL LIFE..there is a window...the science guys do not give glut-4 translocation enough credit, and understand that muscle trained (not a test where someone does 3 sets of 12 on leg extensions) hard soak up glucose double time due to insulins effect and just the effect of training (bodybuilder style) on glut-4....it's a doubly whammy of goodness.

 

[animal eater]

Spot on,

I have a friend who is very into to IF and does all of his eating in a meal at night. While he keeps relatively lean, I always ask are you improving as far as your training is going? Answer no because he is always training in a fasted state. Here I am 15 years older than him and still pushing envelops.

I also always utilize carbs around training, why.... when you train with utmost intensity you perform better. How many world class athletes and I am not talking about bodybuilders have you seen not use carbs around events. Pretty well nil people.

As drugs are not my determining factor in making strength gains which in turn improve my muscle mass which in turn improve my muscle mass to fat ratio, I rely on fuel. If there isn't some carbs in the equation, I am running on sub standard fuel.

animal eater approved

I'll probably offend some people with my answer....but this is where science and real world clash, you need to understand application. Do you NEED carbs...no. Will they make your physique better if used/timed properly yes. There is no doubt about it.

Trust me, I love healthy fats, anybody that knows me is aware of that. I do like to run on fats during the day. But I question the intensity of someone's training if they say they are doing intense training on low carbs, and i would also question their recovery as insulin is so anti-catabolic, and a shot of leucine will only get you so much...you don't recover fast..you get inflammed...too much, and your insulin sensitivity actually goes down....not good.

JM

 

[BabyBeast05]

Honeslty the more I think I know, the more confused I get...lol

high carbs, moderate carbs, moderate fats, high fats, high protein, moderate protein...more cardio, less cardio...HIT training, volume training, ect, ect, ect....Ive been in this sport for 20 plus years now, and now im more confused than ever....lol !!!

This is the reason Dorian Yates is my favorite BBer of all time. If you ever watch his videos or read his interviews about training and nutrition he kept it super simple, and it WORKED!

 

[Tinyshrek]

This is the reason Dorian Yates is my favorite BBer of all time. If you ever watch his videos or read his interviews about training and nutrition he kept it super simple, and it WORKED!

Super simple BUT Dorian was one of the most meticulous BBers of all time!! Diet, training, sleeping everything was plotted out to a T.

 

[KillerStack]

But I question the intensity of someone's training if they say they are doing intense training on low carbs, and i would also question their recovery as insulin is so anti-catabolic, and a shot of leucine will only get you so much...you don't recover fast..you get inflammed...too much, and your insulin sensitivity actually goes down....not good.

JM

I've noticed carbs increase soreness and perceived inflammation. No carbs = little to no soreness. I haven't seen too many others mention this effect anywhere. Now what this means as far as what you should eat, I don't know. Just something I noticed.

Lyle McDonald had some explanation which I forget, but it sounded plausible.