Dr. Scott Stevenson On Are All Steroids Equally Anabolic

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

Did you read magazines 20 years ago though?

Only the cheap titty magazines from the gas station if the clerk sold it to us kids

 

[stackdizzy]

Oh guys we are talking 30 years ago just because I can't find the article from 30 years ago in a magazine doesn't mean someone in that thing didn't call it the holy grail. Could it have been talked up by someone at that magazine sure but I did read it. If a magazine had juice in it it was talked up. I wasn't being passive aggressive with you claiming some sort of superiority cause I read magazines. I just wanted to know if they were around when you were coming up.. As I didn't read magazines at 25 I was all on the net. It just took over things. If it had just been in my circle I would have just said it was popular in my circle. My circle was my HS buddies at the time and we could barely get juice, not one of us could afford gh or even knew where to get it. I remember the winny came in 2mg tabs and a bottle was $150 I couldn't afford that at the time either. I've said things before of stuff that happened in the past like flex wheeler claiming he couldn't do a show cause he got beat up by ninjas ...peeps remembered that. Just cause you've never heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[dany23x]

When I competed usually started 6 weeks before comp 50mg and gradually increased it to 150-200mg per day in the last 2 weeks (usually half from the tablets and half from the injected oil base).

Luki at these dosages (I think that together with win there is also halo, oxa or sdrol....) how do you usually manage supplementation at the liver level? do you drip TAD Samyr and other antioxidants, or after the races do you do an oral detox and let it recover naturally?

 

[luki7788]

Luki at these dosages (I think that together with win there is also halo, oxa or sdrol....) how do you usually manage supplementation at the liver level? do you drip TAD Samyr and other antioxidants, or after the races do you do an oral detox and let it recover naturally?

While I was doing this I didn't need anything and my liver enzymes even at these doses were only slightly elevated - but that was once lol

 

[Mufasa123]

Winstrol is one of the few things I've never used. I didn't realize so many people loved it. I kind of viewed it as something with similar effects to masteron as far as how you look goes. Is it that much better?

Which is better between Anavar (which I like a lot) and Winstrol?

When I first started blasting a bit more again, Mast had come on the scene and people were saying exactly that it was like an injectible, long ester, non 17aa version of winstrol. Loving winstrol (I've never gotten any joint issues) I was thrilled to try. I use Mast a lot these days but let me just say, that comparison was laughable total bullshit. Not even close. Like a profession fighter in his prime fighting a 3rd grade bully on the playground. Not the same league or even close. People who say this (or repeat this trying to seem like an authority) are 19 year old kids who've never ran winny is my guess.

Mast is a nice hardener. Gets some water out and makes you feel good. Also frees up some test via mechanism but that "extra oomf" is your test, non mast's singular property. Nothing wrong with any of this and Mast is a staple of mine. Happy with it for what it is... a terrtiary or 4th compound and more ancillary like proviron to me. Probably the weakest muscle builder in the arsenal to the point that zero-600mg weekly makes virtually zero direct difference in my progress muscle or strength.

As for winstrol....probably my favorite oral. Hard, dry, builds a unique look that almost visibly matches performance to aesthetic. Strength, energy, recovery, feel like a strong explosive animal, look like one, perform like one. Gives the cliche "lean dry gains". For me personally, it doesn't hit liver or lipids too hard. I'll run it 8 weeks no issue. Tren/winny is a pretty bomb combo for performance and certainly look.

Some of the warnings though I've not experienced them in 30 years of use. Joints obviously - seems to hit older guys more or super lean prep guys. If it did this to me on the regular, I'd not use it and I'm very grateful it doesn't. Very good at collagen synthesis but builds a weaker structure (this was a known study). Not sure how much that matters if running other drugs. Some people will run it a long time and believe it can lead to injury. Maybe it's some science behind it or just lean and rapid strength gain or people pushing too hard too fast. No idea but trying to give you full info. Historically seen a huge use in T&F plus other sports. Doesn't seem to give me any weird pump or back pump issues - which is grate so no interference with my training.

Hope that helps.

 

[xyz14]

One of the best podcasts ever recorded. Mad props to Scott

 

[Shelby]

I've heard (one first-hand, one second-hand) of some very good competitors using only winstrol precontest. (i.e. JUST winstrol, nothing else)
One was the overall winner of the first show I did, and the other was Shawn Ray (apparently in his early days of competing).

 

[bbxtreme]

Man all this time I never really even looked into winstrol. Now I’m tempted. Heard the joint pain is real though.

I’ve never had joint pain while using it even at higher dosages. I also use all the omega 3’s, supplements etc that I do though.

I’d venture to say it’s extremely low e2 and bodyfat for most guys using it at that stage causing it more than the winstrol.

 

[bbxtreme]

Luki at these dosages (I think that together with win there is also halo, oxa or sdrol....) how do you usually manage supplementation at the liver level? do you drip TAD Samyr and other antioxidants, or after the races do you do an oral detox and let it recover naturally?

I did glutathione injections EOD and Tudca when I did this exact protocol for my last show. I was using halo and Proviron with it.

I ran bloods days after my show and my liver enzymes were maybe 5 points out of range for ALT/AST. I’d consider this very good and could be contributed to so many things.

There’s a big difference between using orals like this 4-6 weeks out vs using them for a full 16 week prep.

 

[specter]

Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol - PubMed

There is evidence that anabolic steroids, which are derived from testosterone and have markedly less androgenic activity, promote tissue growth and enhance tissue repair; however, the mechanisms involved in their anabolic activities remain unclear. In this report, we measured the effect of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It’s actually good for collagen synthesis which I found interesting but I guess is not related to joint pain

Not really, it makes the "joints" thicker but more brittle, this has been talked about before

 

[dany23x]

I did glutathione injections EOD and Tudca when I did this exact protocol for my last show. I was using halo and Proviron with it.

I ran bloods days after my show and my liver enzymes were maybe 5 points out of range for ALT/AST. I’d consider this very good and could be contributed to so many things.

There’s a big difference between using orals like this 4-6 weeks out vs using them for a full 16 week prep.

yes , i use TUDCA + UDCA and work

 

[nothuman]

When I first started blasting a bit more again, Mast had come on the scene and people were saying exactly that it was like an injectible, long ester, non 17aa version of winstrol. Loving winstrol (I've never gotten any joint issues) I was thrilled to try. I use Mast a lot these days but let me just say, that comparison was laughable total bullshit. Not even close. Like a profession fighter in his prime fighting a 3rd grade bully on the playground. Not the same league or even close. People who say this (or repeat this trying to seem like an authority) are 19 year old kids who've never ran winny is my guess.

Mast is a nice hardener. Gets some water out and makes you feel good. Also frees up some test via mechanism but that "extra oomf" is your test, non mast's singular property. Nothing wrong with any of this and Mast is a staple of mine. Happy with it for what it is... a terrtiary or 4th compound and more ancillary like proviron to me. Probably the weakest muscle builder in the arsenal to the point that zero-600mg weekly makes virtually zero direct difference in my progress muscle or strength.

As for winstrol....probably my favorite oral. Hard, dry, builds a unique look that almost visibly matches performance to aesthetic. Strength, energy, recovery, feel like a strong explosive animal, look like one, perform like one. Gives the cliche "lean dry gains". For me personally, it doesn't hit liver or lipids too hard. I'll run it 8 weeks no issue. Tren/winny is a pretty bomb combo for performance and certainly look.

Some of the warnings though I've not experienced them in 30 years of use. Joints obviously - seems to hit older guys more or super lean prep guys. If it did this to me on the regular, I'd not use it and I'm very grateful it doesn't. Very good at collagen synthesis but builds a weaker structure (this was a known study). Not sure how much that matters if running other drugs. Some people will run it a long time and believe it can lead to injury. Maybe it's some science behind it or just lean and rapid strength gain or people pushing too hard too fast. No idea but trying to give you full info. Historically seen a huge use in T&F plus other sports. Doesn't seem to give me any weird pump or back pump issues - which is grate so no interference with my training.

Hope that helps.

Helps a lot! How's the BP and heart rate on winny? For me, test and anavar don't raise them but npp, tren, ment, anadrol, etc. do

 

[Mufasa123]

Helps a lot! How's the BP and heart rate on winny? For me, test and anavar don't raise them but npp, tren, ment, anadrol, etc. do

Going to be very individual. I do have blood pressure issues but they are water related as opposed to drug (unless drug increases water, like GH where I need to scale slowly or increase my diuretic when reintroducing). Tren/winny by drying can and have lowered my BP a bit but not dependable and not a solution - they just don't raise it. Mostly I take a small amount of meds and eat low carb. Low carb alone can take me to 110/70 vs 145/100 in 5-10 days with no change in meds. Redults in some inflammation too and can be felt as tightness in my hands.

I think RHR may rise slightly on tren. It's more a GH thing for me. I don't have a lot of issues with most drugs thankfully. I'm always on deca 150-200mg and up. Nothing really seems to mess with my bp aside water and carbs.

BTW this is a fricking great video. Just haven't finished it yet. I've been involved with a few recent discussions here on this very topic along with studies posted. Glad to see someone finally cover this topic for the masses.

 

[Doitagain]

if somebody took 1500mg of eq/wk it wouldn't build even near as much muscle as 200mg tren/wk.

Errr...just a guess,but I'm afraid you got not-so-high-quality EQ

 

[Doitagain]

I’ve never had joint pain while using it even at higher dosages. I also use all the omega 3’s, supplements etc that I do though.

I’d venture to say it’s extremely low e2 and bodyfat for most guys using it at that stage causing it more than the winstrol.

Many competitors use 2,5mg/day of LETRO (and even up to 5mg...) in the last 5-6 weeks of their prep, many times on top of a tiny amount of Test and a TON of non-aromatizable androgens (Tren, Mast, Primo, possibly Halo), extremely low calories, severe overtraining, all the micronutrients deficiencies known to mankind but yeah....it's just the Winny to blame.

 

[dany23x]

Many competitors use 2,5mg/day of LETRO (and even up to 5mg...) in the last 5-6 weeks of their prep, many times on top of a tiny amount of Test and a TON of non-aromatizable androgens (Tren, Mast, Primo, possibly Halo), extremely low calories, severe overtraining, all the micronutrients deficiencies known to mankind but yeah....it's just the Winny to blame.

5mg of letro per day, I wouldn't get out of bed already with 2.5, what dosages are we talking about when 5mg is needed every day?

 

[Doitagain]

Not really, it makes the "joints" thicker but more brittle, this has been talked about before

To make the whole thing more puzzling...

Effect of a single intra-articular administration of stanozolol in a naturally occurring canine osteoarthritis model: a randomised trial - Scientific Reports

Osteoarthritis (OA) is a disease with a high negative impact on patient’s quality of life and a high financial burden. It is a source of chronic pain and affects all mammals, including humans and dogs. As the dog is a common model for translation research of human OA, and exploring spontaneous...

www.nature.com

Effects of intraarticular treatment with stanozolol on synovial membrane and cartilage in an ovine model of osteoarthritis - PubMed

Aim of the study was to verify the clinical and morphological effects of intra-articular stanozolol or placebo treatment, lasting 3 and 9 months, in sheep in which a femoro-tibial osteo-arthritis (OA) were surgically induced (medial bilateral meniscectomy). Twenty healthy sheep divided into four...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0737080615005110

 

[Doitagain]

5mg of letro per day, I wouldn't get out of bed already with 2.5, what dosages are we talking about when 5mg is needed every day?

It's not "needed" by any means indeed, just what many use to do

 

[luki7788]

Many competitors use 2,5mg/day of LETRO (and even up to 5mg...) in the last 5-6 weeks of their prep, many times on top of a tiny amount of Test and a TON of non-aromatizable androgens (Tren, Mast, Primo, possibly Halo), extremely low calories, severe overtraining, all the micronutrients deficiencies known to mankind but yeah....it's just the Winny to blame.

Whenever I added Vinstrol before the competition all my joints stopped hurting - not only me but many of my friends had similar feelings

On the other hand all the major muscle tears I've had have happened while running Vinstrol.

 

[LATS]

Whenever I added Vinstrol before the competition all my joints stopped hurting - not only me but many of my friends had similar feelings

On the other hand all the major muscle tears I've had have happened while running Vinstrol.

I remember Joe meeko once stated that when he ran winny he upped his rep range quite a bit.. he had too many minor tears while using it