Your thoughts on pure unflavored GELATIN as a protein source?

[PHIL HERNON]

Memory

There was a study done on woman one time.. They were comparing Hydrolyzed Collagen/Gelatin against Whey for retention of muscle mass. Gelatin won. Let me dig it up.

It was for muscle wasting......the women lost less muscle.

 

[KillerStack]

The way they are hydrolyzed will have a large impact on their molecular weight, which will effect the rate of absorption in the gut. Kind of like whey concentrate versus isolate vs hydrosylate.

Interestingly there was a study showing whey isolate was faster absorbed than hydrolyzed whey, so it's not necessarily true that a greater degree of hydrolysis improves a protein or even makes it faster absorbed.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

Interestingly there was a study showing whey isolate was faster absorbed than hydrolyzed whey, so it's not necessarily true that a greater degree of hydrolysis improves a protein or even makes it faster absorbed.

Did he say faster? I think he said different...........you added the faster.

 

[Gambel]

It was for muscle wasting......the women lost less muscle.

Phil is correct. The women consuming hydrolyzed collagen maintained nitrogen balance and preserved lean body mass. Here is the abstract.

J Am Diet Assoc. 2009 Jun;109(6):1082-7.
Effects of whey and fortified collagen hydrolysate protein supplements on nitrogen balance and body composition in older women.

Hays NP, Kim H, Wells AM, Kajkenova O, Evans WJ.
Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory, D.W. Reynolds Institute on Aging, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, 4301 W Markham St, Slot 806, Little Rock, AR 72205, USA. [email protected]

Many elderly people have a low intake of dietary protein, yet their protein requirement may be higher than the current Recommended Dietary Allowance. High-quality protein supplements may be useful to enhance nitrogen retention and increase the availability of essential amino acids in elderly people. We compared the nitrogen balance of two protein supplements (Resource Beneprotein Instant Protein Powder, Nestlé HealthCare Nutrition, Minnetonka, MN, a whey protein concentrate; or Pro-Stat 101, Medical Nutrition USA, Englewood, NJ, a concentrated, fortified, collagen protein hydrolysate) varying in type but not amount of protein content using a crossover study design. The study consisted of two 15-day diet trials separated by a > or = 1-week washout period. Nine healthy elderly women (age 71+/-1 years) were provided a eucaloric diet containing approximately the protein Recommended Dietary Allowance of 0.8 g/kg body weight/day. The supplements constituted about half of the total protein provided to each subject. Nitrogen balance responses were assessed over days 6 to 10 and days 11 to 14 of each trial. Measured nitrogen content of the foods indicated that subjects consumed 0.81+/-0.02 g protein/kg/day and 0.85+/-0.05 g/kg/day for the whey and fortified collagen protein trials, respectively. Body weight decreased (P=0.02) after consumption of the whey supplement, with no significant changes in body weight or composition resulting from the consumption of the collagen supplement. Nitrogen excretion was higher during the whey supplement trial than during the collagen trial (P=0.047). Therefore, a concentrated, fortified, hydrolyzed collagen protein supplement maintained nitrogen balance and preserved lean body mass during 15 days of consumption of a relatively low-protein diet.

 

[KillerStack]

Did he say faster? I think he said different...........you added the faster.

Yeah I was getting sort of OT for this discussion anyway... just something I saw some time ago regarding whey hydrolysates. Most would assume pre-digested whey would be faster absorbed. I thought it was interesting is all. Also saw something about milk protein hydrolysates being used predominantly in the gut.

I don't know if there are differences between the collagens sold in the bodybuilding market place, between the AAEFX, TP, etc, or if they are different compared to this for example:

Home

 

[SHOTGUN]

That's the one Gambel.. Thanks!

 

[Gunsmith]

So for our bros overseas , would it be beinficial to add Knoxx Gelatin to their whey protein shakes?

I have some friends in services over seas (Military and contractor) that can't waren't the cost of having LBA's shipped to them , would it benifit them to add the regular unflavored Gelatin to their standard whey shakes and if so how much would be good?

 

[PsyT]

hey man I am seeing positive results doing exactly what you suggested (gelatin in whey shake). I drink about 24-36g of protein from gelatin a day. For about a week now only...i'm hoping to see even more improvement.

This is purely anecdotal but I'll say this...a week ago my shoulder was still doing this annoying popping thing (like a knuckle cracking sound sorta) every once in awhile when I stretch in the morning. Now for the last couple days that has been GONE. My shoulders feel much smoother now.

Its really anecdotal cause I'm also in the midst of a 40 day prop cycle...so it could be that contributing...?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

hey man I am seeing positive results doing exactly what you suggested (gelatin in whey shake). I drink about 24-36g of protein from gelatin a day. For about a week now only...i'm hoping to see even more improvement.

This is purely anecdotal but I'll say this...a week ago my shoulder was still doing this annoying popping thing (like a knuckle cracking sound sorta) every once in awhile when I stretch in the morning. Now for the last couple days that has been GONE. My shoulders feel much smoother now.

Its really anecdotal cause I'm also in the midst of a 40 day prop cycle...so it could be that contributing...?

If you were also on low dose deca I would say who knows............since just prop I will say yes, it is helping.

 

[Gunsmith]

If you were also on low dose deca I would say who knows............since just prop I will say yes, it is helping.

so Phil whats your thoughts on the regular gelatin added to a shake , would it aid in maybe having the shake take longer to absorbe or just a better protein blend?

I was looking at the Knoxx packets a little while ago and their only like 2g protein per little pack , how much would be benificial to add to a shake if you were gonna have say two or three shakes a day

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Beneficial yes...

so Phil whats your thoughts on the regular gelatin added to a shake , would it aid in maybe having the shake take longer to absorbe or just a better protein blend?

I was looking at the Knoxx packets a little while ago and their only like 2g protein per little pack , how much would be benificial to add to a shake if you were gonna have say two or three shakes a day

But you have a company that everyone trusts..........made it a complete protein, cheap price............go with LBAs. Use Whey and LBA throughout the day, maybe BCAA before training......good 2 go

 

[Gunsmith]

But you have a company that everyone trusts..........made it a complete protein, cheap price............go with LBAs. Use Whey and LBA throughout the day, maybe BCAA before training......good 2 go

Well the trouble is that it is pretty hard to get stuff shipped into an area like Iraq and Afganastan in any sort of quanity , They have access to MetRX 100% Whey their and I'm pretty sure that Gelatin should be realitivly easy to find in a grocery store. Just looking to "Improvise , Adapt and Overcome" if you know what I mean. Its sad that you have to just through so many fucking hoops to get supply to our troops that they should have access to in an instant , reminds me of the whole "Silly String" ordeal

 

[PsyT]

so Phil whats your thoughts on the regular gelatin added to a shake , would it aid in maybe having the shake take longer to absorbe or just a better protein blend?

I was looking at the Knoxx packets a little while ago and their only like 2g protein per little pack , how much would be benificial to add to a shake if you were gonna have say two or three shakes a day

hey dude if you have the same stuff I have, then they are 2g per SERVING and 4 servings per PACKET. So 8g per packet (32 packets in the box so 256g protein per box, which box was 7 bucks for me). You can do the math, but that works out at just about the same price as protein from meat (beef if you consider 4 bucks a pound, for 8 dollars you get 280g protein so just about equivalent to the gelatin pricing).

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

What I do not understand is that you guys think that gelatin is a complete protein.........it is not. It is also low in isoleucine, threonine, and methionine.

 

[PsyT]

I dont think anybody said it is. I wouldn't eat JUST gelatin protein lol. I consume mine with whey protein or beef/chicken thus filling out the completeness...

 

[Gunsmith]

I turned some buddys of mine who are SF operators onto the LBA's and they love them , being that they somtimes gooa all day with very little food and when they do get to eat its less that healthy , they add a bunch to the water that they are carrying , this way they are getting protein in whater that they are consuming/packing anyway , no worry about mixing , no extra room taken up and its still keeps the water refreshing.

I'm sure that they will stock up on some for their next rotation and just pack it with the boats when they fly over. Their last hitch they all lost a bit of weight even though they were taking low to moderat doses of AAS , I'm sure it was due to stress and way under eating.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

hey dude if you have the same stuff I have, then they are 2g per SERVING and 4 servings per PACKET. So 8g per packet (32 packets in the box so 256g protein per box, which box was 7 bucks for me). You can do the math, but that works out at just about the same price as protein from meat (beef if you consider 4 bucks a pound, for 8 dollars you get 280g protein so just about equivalent to the gelatin pricing).

That sounds like you were comparing...ok consider this........why throw in gelatin when it will screw up the AA profile of a great protein like whey or beef?

 

[Gunsmith]

[/B]


That sounds like you were comparing...ok consider this........why throw in gelatin when it will screw up the AA profile of a great protein like whey or beef?

I think I'd rather eat 4$ worth of beef that anything else though !!

Phil I sent you a PM about LBA's and Gastric Bypass patients

 

[PsyT]

[/B]


That sounds like you were comparing...ok consider this........why throw in gelatin when it will screw up the AA profile of a great protein like whey or beef?

hey Phil,

it actually makes the profile of beef much much better! Did you know this? I'll check a source and get back to you on this...I forgot their wording though...something like bioavailability or bioeffectiveness or something was rated 97 with just beef an 99 with beef + gelatin. I forget what they were measuring the conclusion was that adding gelatin was a GOOD idea.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Wow

hey Phil,

it actually makes the profile of beef much much better! Did you know this? I'll check a source and get back to you on this...I forgot their wording though...something like bioavailability or bioeffectiveness or something was rated 97 with just beef an 99 with beef + gelatin. I forget what they were measuring the conclusion was that adding gelatin was a GOOD idea.

Kind of like an egg I suppose......whole egg is better protein source than just white....whole cow is better than just muscle tissue.....hahhhhaha