GDA discussion.

[G.I.Bro]

I missed his earlier post where he corrected himself, disregard.

Still under that notion thats like saying doing fasted cardio doesnt burn fat, because aminos are still the 'preferred source of fuel' therefore all you will burn is aminos during fasted cardio.
Not true.
Yes you will burn some aminos, but its not like pac man is going to be out there eating your muscles.
Not too mention MOST guys will be on some sort of AAS which have a ant-catabolic effect we know.
Pros far outweigh the cons for me, especially during high glucose times.

I'm in agreement. And I also think a GDA can help you get into a ketogenic state faster.

 

[Cerberus777]

Some GDAs like metformin stop glucose formation in the liver....amino acids are what get converted into glucose. So you will be able to reach ketosis faster with this halted.

This is also why I'm confused when people say they are catabolic since they stop the first steps in catabolism.

 

[sma]

No it doesnt directly, but increasing insulin sensitivity increases the bodies expedience to reach ketosis.
Ask any fat diabetic about what its like to be 'insulin resistant'

And what does this redundant statement even mean?

Amino acids will still be body's preferred amino acids

You know I have noticed you have a preponderance to try and contradict people. When you do next time please be a bit more concise.
I dont mind debate but Im not even sure what you point is.

Sorry Adjos. I don't come on her much anymore if at all. I'm not looking for the fastest way to reach a destination anymore.

Insulin sensitivity is a great topic and although I saw results using r-ala during dieting phases using high dose . there's just too much going on , I know metformin is a great suplement but there was a reason why pre workout it wasn't beneficial I think it was the way it acts on the glucose transporter glut 4. Not 100% sure.

Personally I find carb cycling and Ofcourse fasting the absolute best for insulin sensitivity. Being lean doesn't always mean you are insulin sensitive, I do agree that if you were 10% bf and 4weeks later your 8%bf then as your loosing bf your becoming more insulin sensitive.

 

[ricky23]

metformin in studies shown to reduce plasma igf-1 levels in normal men.
i just cycle carbs and go carbless pwo to regain insulin sensitivity. i dont think GDA's are needed as much as people would think, not with clever training and diet after using slin

 

[ajdos]

Sorry Adjos. I don't come on her much anymore if at all. I'm not looking for the fastest way to reach a destination anymore.

Insulin sensitivity is a great topic and although I saw results using r-ala during dieting phases using high dose . there's just too much going on , I know metformin is a great suplement but there was a reason why pre workout it wasn't beneficial I think it was the way it acts on the glucose transporter glut 4. Not 100% sure.

Personally I find carb cycling and Ofcourse fasting the absolute best for insulin sensitivity. Being lean doesn't always mean you are insulin sensitive, I do agree that if you were 10% bf and 4weeks later your 8%bf then as your loosing bf your becoming more insulin sensitive.

The only situation I would take metformin pre workout ( resistance training) would be if I was taking a bunch of intra workout carbs, and even then I wouldnt do it because I would prefer insulin.
I was saying I would do them pre-cardio.

metformin in studies shown to reduce plasma igf-1 levels in normal men.
i just cycle carbs and go carbless pwo to regain insulin sensitivity. i dont think GDA's are needed as much as people would think, not with clever training and diet after using slin

Clever dieting, clever training, and clever supplementation. Only enhancing what diet and training are doing, by definition of the word supplements 'in addition too'.

 

[G.I.Bro]

metformin in studies shown to reduce plasma igf-1 levels in normal men.
i just cycle carbs and go carbless pwo to regain insulin sensitivity. i dont think GDA's are needed as much as people would think, not with clever training and diet after using slin

It reduces IGF-1 receptor signaling also. I'm not sure though if you end up with less plasma igf-1 when exogenous gh is administered versus reduction of natural igf-1. Metformin also inhibits mTOR (which doesn't sound good), this may be why some say it's catabolic??

**broken link removed**

 

[NY Muscle]

Carb cycling is for sure the way too go which I've been doing 8 weeks now after finishing a CKD. I get mini high carb days unlike the massive carb ups when on a keto diet and I find your body will tell you when you need more carbs. When I'm feeling a little blah then I know it's time for more carbs and I sometimes do some dirty ones like pop tarts. Then the next morning I'm very veiny and pumped in the gym.

My current routine is definitely the oddest routine I've done. What I do is fasted cardio 6am on the treadmill in my house. I then eat egg whites and turkey bacon for breakfast. If it's a training day I will add coconut oil as well. Then 830/9am I hit the gym. This is where I find my body responds VERY well to intra nutrition. The body is rather primed for carbs and I'm guessing insulin sensitivity is high from overnight fast plus cardio and carbless meals pre workout.

I pop a few GDA's in the car on the way to the gym then in the locker room I start taking a few sips of the intra drink.

The majority of my carbs for the day are intra and the next solid meal after workout then it's like tiny amounts the rest of the day.

When I do decide to go heavy on the carbs my body really soaks it up. Though I've read conflicting studies with regards to cardio and impact on GLUT4. But I read a study where aerobic exercise also increased muscle GLUT4 mRNA and protein.

The routine is odd for me as I'd never plan to do cardio 1st then gym 2.5hrs later but that's what I have to set up because of my schedule.


Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

 

[sma]

The only situation I would take metformin pre workout ( resistance training) would be if I was taking a bunch of intra workout carbs, and even then I wouldnt do it because I would prefer insulin.
I was saying I would do them pre-cardio.

Clever dieting, clever training, and clever supplementation. Only enhancing what diet and training are doing, by definition of the word supplements 'in addition too'.

Yes I read where you said you would use it pre cardio which is fasted but based on how metformin works it wouldn't be beneficial considering time it takes to digest and that your fasted cardio + 8-10 hours last meal. I have used it that way too to see if hypo feelings extra were experienced and I never did. I see metformin as a tool to be used in conjunction with insulin in cycles to restore sensitivity. Or For someone who wants to eat some carbs per meal without having I'll effects trying to recomp/ diet.

 

[ajdos]

Yes I read where you said you would use it pre cardio which is fasted but based on how metformin works it wouldn't be beneficial considering time it takes to digest and that your fasted cardio + 8-10 hours last meal. I have used it that way too to see if hypo feelings extra were experienced and I never did. I see metformin as a tool to be used in conjunction with insulin in cycles to restore sensitivity. Or For someone who wants to eat some carbs per meal without having I'll effects trying to recomp/ diet.

The other side of that is that its absorbed better on an empty stomach it lasts around 8 or so hours so I want that first dose to last through out every meal, Im also going to be taking the other GDA's I mentioned in conjunction with it.
I understand its not going to work the same as insulin, but r-ala works in a similar fashion and it helps induce ketosis, maybe it wont have an 'all out' effect at that point, but it should begin to contribute something to the equation and I cant see taking it later in the day based off my other supplement and meal protocols.
But I see what your point is.

 

[mewalrus]

So it dawned on me, that if you re-create this on a micro scale, say within a 6 week period, starting by dieting down to a low(er) bodyfat. Then you add back in carbs, and some good fats. You let yourself grow, for me its about 2-3 weeks before I start to really lose the effect, so then I turn around and diet again, low carbs, and guess what?
Just like at the begining of your diet your metabolism is nice and strong you burn fat quite easily.
I'll do this for a while say 7-10 days, tighten up, increase my insulin sensitivity again, thereby resetting the system and then boom, back with the carbs and my body grows but does so with a lesser degree of fat gain, just keep shifting back and forth and you make leaner gains.
.

In a way this is very similar to the article LK3 posted about the Russian supplementation program. It hit me because they cycled training and supps 3 weeks on and 1 week off approximately. I'll get a link to that post.

Do you cycle the GDA's to try to maintain sensitivity to them?

 

[Cerberus777]

Carb cycling is for sure the way too go which I've been doing 8 weeks now after finishing a CKD. I get mini high carb days unlike the massive carb ups when on a keto diet and I find your body will tell you when you need more carbs. When I'm feeling a little blah then I know it's time for more carbs and I sometimes do some dirty ones like pop tarts. Then the next morning I'm very veiny and pumped in the gym.

My current routine is definitely the oddest routine I've done. What I do is fasted cardio 6am on the treadmill in my house. I then eat egg whites and turkey bacon for breakfast. If it's a training day I will add coconut oil as well. Then 830/9am I hit the gym. This is where I find my body responds VERY well to intra nutrition. The body is rather primed for carbs and I'm guessing insulin sensitivity is high from overnight fast plus cardio and carbless meals pre workout.

I pop a few GDA's in the car on the way to the gym then in the locker room I start taking a few sips of the intra drink.

The majority of my carbs for the day are intra and the next solid meal after workout then it's like tiny amounts the rest of the day.

When I do decide to go heavy on the carbs my body really soaks it up. Though I've read conflicting studies with regards to cardio and impact on GLUT4. But I read a study where aerobic exercise also increased muscle GLUT4 mRNA and protein.

The routine is odd for me as I'd never plan to do cardio 1st then gym 2.5hrs later but that's what I have to set up because of my schedule.


Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk 2

Most the studies I've seen suggest don't do post workout cardio shuts down Glut-4....i think you're fine with pre am and a meal when it comes to Glut-4

 

[ajdos]

In a way this is very similar to the article LK3 posted about the Russian supplementation program. It hit me because they cycled training and supps 3 weeks on and 1 week off approximately. I'll get a link to that post.

Do you cycle the GDA's to try to maintain sensitivity to them?

I dont cycle them in a planned fashion it more of an economic cycle if you catch my drift.

 

[aflo]

I have a bottle of usp labs anabolic pump.. I've never really used a GDA before. I always train fasted then do about 15 min HIT cardio, would I use it 30min pre post workout meal or pre workout? Just training to shed body fat and gain a tad bit of muscle..

 

[Fawker]

Evomuse is coming out with a reformulated Slintensity. Wait on that, the formulater always comes out with innovative supplements.

For now I use recompadrol

 

[ryanbCXG]

It reduces IGF-1 receptor signaling also. I'm not sure though if you end up with less plasma igf-1 when exogenous gh is administered versus reduction of natural igf-1. Metformin also inhibits mTOR (which doesn't sound good), this may be why some say it's catabolic??

**broken link removed**

You wont be burning fat if mtor is on. AMPK activates fat burning as well as a ton of health pathways. You have mtor on all the time is a bad bad thing

 

[G.I.Bro]

You wont be burning fat if mtor is on. AMPK activates fat burning as well as a ton of health pathways. You have mtor on all the time is a bad bad thing

You want it triggered during training though, right?

 

[ryanbCXG]

You want it triggered during training though, right?

Depends on your mode but most poeple do yes unless a very very serious fast diet. Which is why using it before some cardio is perfect get your ampk levels release fat burn fat.

 

[juggy38]

That's why fasting 12-14 hours cuts fat so easily. It jacks AMPK way up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[totalrecomp]

In regards to the cinnamon toxicity:

Coumarin is moderately toxic to the liver and kidneys, with a median lethal dose (LD50) of 275 mg/kg, a low toxicity compared to related compounds. Though it is only somewhat dangerous to humans, coumarin is hepatotoxic in rats but less so in mice. Rodents metabolize it mostly to 3,4-coumarin epoxide, a toxic, unstable compound that on further differential metabolism may cause liver cancer in rats and lung tumors in mice.[19][20] Humans metabolize it mainly to 7-hydroxycoumarin, a compound of lower toxicity. The German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment has established a tolerable daily intake (TDI) of 0.1 mg coumarin per kg body weight, but also advises that higher intake for a short time is not dangerous.[21] The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) of the United States does not classify coumarin as a carcinogen for humans.[22]

European health agencies have warned against consuming high amounts of cassia bark, one of the four main species of cinnamon, because of its coumarin content.[23][24] According to the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment (BFR), 1 kg of (cassia) cinnamon powder contains approximately 2.1 to 4.4 g of coumarin.[25] Powdered cassia cinnamon weighs 0.56 g/cm3,[26] so a kilogram of cassia cinnamon powder equals 362.29 teaspoons. One teaspoon of cassia cinnamon powder therefore contains 5.8 to 12.1 mg of coumarin, which may be above the tolerable daily intake value for smaller individuals.[25] However, the BFR only cautions against high daily intake of foods containing coumarin. Its report[25] specifically states that Ceylon cinnamon (Cinnamomum verum) contains "hardly any" coumarin.



So if you are going to use large amounts for long periods of time I would advise going for ceylon cinn. Not sure of any companies using ceylon but you can find it anywhere bulk herbs/spices are sold and then cap it up.

 

[one8seven]

Its funny how GDA's aren't more popular, some say they work some say they don't... I remember the first day I tried anabolic pump about 5 years ago and my mind was blown.... I've been using MD GDA since it came out rather than AP but that Sugar Smart look interesting how does it compare to AP?