Is Phil Heath all Insulin?

[paloboi]

he didnt deny it he said you cant get his skin tone using insulin and that is a true statment. He did not deny using it though

 

[mexbeast]

anyone who knows anything about insulin farmacology will agree that you would not achieve that look using too much slin! dream all you want; but if you think slin is the answer try 100uis a day for a few months then come back ant tell us just how great it is. it's just like everything else, guys thought aas was the answer then gh, later igf1 know slin? the thing is we all dream we could find a drug that would put us in the same level as the generic freaks; but i know damn well slin is not it!

 

[KillerStack]

What is my agenda? To get insulin sales going downward? I am always talking about how I see GH turning rare people into superfreaks so is my agenda increased GH sales? How do i make money from that? I dont sell gh.
Do you personally believe insulin is the thing that separates bodybuilders from freakdom? Why not try it then? I have. I know a great many people have and the majority got to the point that they thought "wow this stuff is grossly overrated and it might be the whole kitchen sink that is actually doing something instead of this insulin soapdish"

Insulin...good at gaining weight if gaining weight is a problem and Chad used to have people use it once or twice a week with alot of dextrose....since then its really fallen to the wayside for most people.

Some people might still be high on it but I dont know a great many.

So my agenda is what exactly? Please dont say supplement sales. 99% of my posts have nothing to do with supplements.....

I guess my agenda is increasing insulin sales then?

Please read this carefully: I do not think insulin is the secret. I do not think any single drug makes anyone pro by itself (this goes for any steroid of GH too). I do not think insulin improves physiques by and large. Insulin didn't do much if anything for me personally, and I've posted here before, many times, how it was a dissappointment for guys I saw use it, certainly didn't work like Milos claimed even when following his official protocol to the T.

Insulin does do certain things, among which is putting on "weight" like you say. In case you haven't noticed, top amateurs and top pros, many of them, look too heavy, look too bloated, have separated abs, all things due to thinking about the scale (you too are extremely weight fixated, always talking about numbers such as 280lbs, 300lbs, while having disdain for guys under 200lbs or guys just over like Shawn Ray who "didn't do anything with his physique as a pro"). Fixation with the scale destroys physiques and there are too many examples to count.

I remember many years ago when Kamali said no one used SEOs anymore. One look at top contestants tells a different story. Same with insulin. It is still used, many no doubt try to minimize its use to avoid destroying their physiques.

Why do I think Phil is no stranger to its use? People have posted how they heard it straight from his mouth. I got PMs to similar effect, by guys not wanting to publicly get into it. I think Phil uses plenty of growth and insulin, in some dosage, is a natural addition a lot of times, not the least to control glycemia. Phil's "look" is consistent with some insulin use. I know you disagree with being able to tell what anyone uses, or if they are even completely free of any drugs, by looking at them, so we are at odds there.
If Jason Huh for example claimed he never touched insulin or GH you would probably believe him while I would call BS.

As far as Phil adding a tiny dosage of GH into his stack after being a pro for a while already, I seem to remember a post by iabadman how itwas in Phil's stack before turning pro. IIRC it was test, tren, winny and GH. Correct me if I remember wrong. So I don't know, your story doesn't sound too credible.

So please, don't put words in my mouth. This is not about any one single drug being a SECRET or even being a great drug that improve physiques. This is not about jealousy (I fully acknowledge that genetics and genetic response to drugs difffer). This is just common sense, the way I see it.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Ok well here is some common sense. How bout human nature? Who is going to get in trouble for using insulin? Anyone? So think about it....The man is good friends with a certain person on this board....he has had no problem with conversations regarding all things bodybuilding enhancement.....actually "conversations" is a bad word and not telling the whole story...but lets just leave it at that........why the hell would he say "he doesnt use insulin" if everything else is openly talked about with his friend?

If Im sitting across the table from you Killerstack and you tell me you have been hypothetically cycling 300 up to 1000mg of testosterone over the years, 100 up to 500mg of deca, 50 up to 100mg of tren E3D, 8mg of arimidex, 2ius up to 8 ius of gh a day and 10ius of humalog post workout.......are you going to be somehow scared to tell me that you use clen?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Insulin does do certain things, among which is putting on "weight" like you say. In case you haven't noticed, top amateurs and top pros, many of them, look too heavy, look too bloated, have separated abs, all things due to thinking about the scale (you too are extremely weight fixated, always talking about numbers such as 280lbs, 300lbs, while having disdain for guys under 200lbs or guys just over like Shawn Ray who "didn't do anything with his physique as a pro"). Fixation with the scale destroys physiques and there are too many examples to count.

If Jason Huh for example claimed he never touched insulin or GH you would probably believe him while I would call BS.

I would like to comment on these two points. I am not a contest prep guy. If I was my opinion would be "you absolutely go in at your best looking shredded physique according to the mirror and disregard the scale totally"......but that wasnt my part of the equation.....people came to me because they werent big enough/or were told by the judges to gain muscle mass. In that case I always have it in my head that people for the most part are about 38-45 pounds over their onstage weight in the offseason if they stay in an acceptable offseason shape (abs still visible)....so in my case I had to go by weight to improve someone and get them into a position where the next time they were onstage they were bigger and had cured the problems the judges said they were lacking. I dont have disdain for guys under 200...I use a standard height of 5'10 ish when I talk about bodybuilders and alot of what I post....I just use that generic height in mind (and yup, probably not something I should do)........

Shawn Ray, he got his pro card at roughly 198 and 16 years later he was still competing at 206 to 214 as a pro....It used to irk me that he would constantly complain about Haney and then Yates openly in magazines over the years especially when Yates and Haney were constantly trying to get better (and bigger)...from 1983 to 1991 (especially 91 his last show) Haney would get more and more dominant (except 1990 at the drug tested show), and Yates always tried to improve constantly to separate himself from the pack....so that was my snafu with Ray....since Ive never seen delts too big, lats too wide, and a quad sweep too pronounced...I felt instead of constantly complaining about Haney and Yates, if he really wanted the title of MR Olympia he should have tried to dominate and improved...as to what the judges were rewarding.

If Jason Huh for example claimed he never touched insulin or GH as you stated.........in all honesty I would tend to think that he had touched GH. Now if i actually knew the guy personally and he told me everything else he was doing and told me to my face "bro I dont touch slin, never seen the need to".... I'd believe he didnt use insulin because again why the heck tell me the stuff that is percieved as "bad" (juice gh) and not tell me something that is really quite moot (insulin).

But heck we are talking about a guy in HUH who started lifting in the 11th grade and allready weighed 200 pounds at that time and 2.5 years later looks like this onstage at 19....thats "made for bodybuilding" genetics.

 

[Iabadman]

Killer stack ......I was actually put in touch with Phil heath and Frank Mc grath at about the same time .....both were interested in my help because they heard I was knowledgable ....and wasn't some gay shmoe type or looking to swing from their nuts .....they both were really broke and heard I liked to help people .....Phil health "stack was 800 mg of t-400 and 40 eq .....with zero gh [Frank's was more than double that ].....this was maybe 4 months before his USA win.....he HAD not used gh yet ......[ the guy had zero knowledge of drugs period and was broke as hell ] .....He then got introduced to Jay Cutler and Jay took over from there [getting sponsorship and I am sure hook ups as well].....The last e-mail I reciecved from Phil when I didn't end up helping him said he was looking into gh , winnie ,test , and tren .....but seeing his pics of the usa that yr ...I 'd say he probably didn't use gh ....as his condidtion was very dry and lines were nice and clean ....plus he only weighed 212 .....Do I think the 30 lb he has added the last 5 yrs has made him look better ? Nope .....his head is bigger ...his abs are coming apart ....waist is bigger .....and his muscles look too blown up for my taste .......But the guy is defnately the best in the world right now or at least top 3 ......he is amazing plus on top of that he is a cool guy and reps bbing quite well .......He definately added Gh and I don't think it helped him much .....he is holding more water these days .....he gets ripped ....but looks softer and the lines arent as clean imo .......could insulin have played a role ? Yep ......but if a guy like Dante or Skip say no ,then I would believe them [ Skip isn't going to bs and has known Phil from the very begining.....he saw his genetics from day one and put us together] I don't know why you guys don't get that Dante and Skip are as honest and solid as they come period end of story .......My God ....Dante posts not for the the sake of his business you silly rabbits......he posts because he loves bbing , likes to help others , and wants to maybe keep people healthy as well informed .[ not fooled by internet hersay] Believe me ......he has better things to do with his time .......who do you think he really trying to protect ? I can tell you I know two pros very well [ both have placed top 5 in pro shows in the last couple yrs ] neither uses or likes insulin [both tried yrs ago ....one with Milos and one with my help ]......I don't think it is popular much at all [I did like it myself though].....and I think gh is more popular than ever because it is cheap and available ...... but after a number of yrs ....it thickens the skin...and the skin gets certain look to it .[if you get into the over ten iu doses for long periods ....] you see head , hand , feet , and nose growth .....your seperation decreases......you look watery and puffy while being lean [ probably not healthy either .....thats just and observation .....so gh isnt the end all ,be all that it is being hyped as of lately imo.].....did ronnie and jay use insulin ? I don't know .....but my opinion is yes ......did they abuse it ? Nope they are genetic freaks with great response to drugs, I bet there cycles were in the 2 gram range ......btw my two pro friends are in the 2-3 gram range ......I just think you fellas that aurgue with dante and think he is hiding the truth are so off base ......i personally have known the man for 18 yrs ......he is freaking honest as they come .....he an east coast old school guy and as honorable as they come ....and I put that on my life!!! He went from working for 12 bucks an hour to multi millionare in 7 yrs because he built his rep first over a period of yrs on the net by being honest and helping others......his products are top notch and they speak for themselves.....he doesn't need to pimp his company or himself ......His actions speak for themselves ......I like you killerstack....you are pretty smart and honest yourself .....but this going back and forth with Dante is funny to me ......because if you knew him as I do ....you would see you have been wasting your time .....I promise you he is a solid guy that in person you would like a lot .....

 

[aphextwin]

Who really knows how much Phil uses, but his physique is NOT based on SLIN. He has great genetics and then there are many other things all pros use.

 

[b-boy]

im going to say this and then leave this the fuck alone :banghead:

why is it so hard for people to believe that at the upper level of the sport it is soooooo fucking competitive that you can't dare let off the gas pedal for one second, you have to go harder and faster so you don't get caught... phil heath knows that kai is off the fucking chain with his gear (if you think he isn't then you are plain fucking dillusional). so why would you think that phil would take the conservative route to try and be mr. olympia (he knows its possible). this is a sport of drug addicts plain and simple... read that?? DRUG ADDICTS i have no problem admitting i am one, cause im no lying bitch! the sport of bodybuilding is chocked full of lying bitches!

now im not saying phil does this or phil does that, cause honestly i don't give a rats ass... but my common sense thinking tells me he wants to be mr. olympia more than anything, its his goal, his dream... and i know NFL guys will do whatever it takes to make the team and fullfill their dream and every person in every other sport so why would bodybuilding be so different... is it genetics...fucking LOL... was it genetics that allowed barry bonds to smack all those home runs ...... people are going to do what they have to do to WIN and fullfill their DREAMS!

 

[osiris]

im going to say this and then leave this the fuck alone :banghead:

why is it so hard for people to believe that at the upper level of the sport it is soooooo fucking competitive that you can't dare let off the gas pedal for one second, you have to go harder and faster so you don't get caught... phil heath knows that kai is off the fucking chain with his gear (if you think he isn't then you are plain fucking dillusional). so why would you think that phil would take the conservative route to try and be mr. olympia (he knows its possible). this is a sport of drug addicts plain and simple... read that?? DRUG ADDICTS i have no problem admitting i am one, cause im no lying bitch! the sport of bodybuilding is chocked full of lying bitches!

now im not saying phil does this or phil does that, cause honestly i don't give a rats ass... but my common sense thinking tells me he wants to be mr. olympia more than anything, its his goal, his dream... and i know NFL guys will do whatever it takes to make the team and fullfill their dream and every person in every other sport so why would bodybuilding be so different... is it genetics...fucking LOL... was it genetics that allowed barry bonds to smack all those home runs ...... people are going to do what they have to do to WIN and fullfill their DREAMS!

Amen! This,is as simple as it gets. I just left a local bb'ing show with my friend I helped get ready and there were guys in the novice category talkong about taking almost 2 grams. I could only smile. Its about winning at all costs. I am a drug addict, a junkie and I agree bboy......that is what this,sport is about

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

 

[KillerStack]

.....but this going back and forth with Dante is funny to me ......because if you knew him as I do ....you would see you have been wasting your time .....I promise you he is a solid guy that in person you would like a lot .....

In all fairness he comes at me just as much. This isn't a thread started by DC, and I linked 2 posts not mentioning him or anything, and he gets pissed off. It wasn't just for his benefit I posted it. I don't know who this "Ness" guy is, but I don't know why he would make something like that up, same with the ones who PM'd me.... so it's interesting.

I like people having different opinions. Like I've said, a total lemming-like atmosphere helps no one.

And just because I like gh15 he says I'm somehow involved in the "gimmick", or know the players involved, which I simply don't. At best it's a wild guess... which happens to be wrong.

No I don't know either you or Dante but you don't seem to get all pissed off at different opinions at least.

 

[KillerStack]

Now if i actually knew the guy personally[/B] and he told me everything else he was doing and told me to my face "bro I dont touch slin, never seen the need to".... I'd believe he didnt use insulin because again why the heck tell me the stuff that is percieved as "bad" (juice gh) and not tell me something that is really quite moot (insulin).

Let's say I went to Birmingham, trained at Yates' gym and got to know him a bit. Let's say he even invited me to a party at his house. Then he would talk about drugs and dosages. Would I believe he would tell me everything (not that he has to, but let's say he volunteered all this info)? No. You can't tell any "bodybuilder" anything and expect it not to be blabbed about to everyone. Sure, like you I judge people on a case to case basis, but I've seen too many insecure and dishonest bodybuilders in my time.

Bodybuilders who call each other "brothers" and then tell me they don't think the other tells "all" wrt to what they used. Bodybuilders who tell me they've been off for a year while looking bigger and redder in the face than ever before. Bodybuilders are like that IME. So I've learned to not believe everything, even if they are "friends".

I remember a guy I knew coming up to me at a show he competed at, telling me he was completely natural, that he only used insulin. He forgot I'd seen him buy steroids a few times, once about 6 weeks out from the show. Another friend forgot his jacket in my friends car. My friend finds used syringes and broken amps in the breast pocket. The guy with the jacket claims the gear was someone elses. The guy mysteriously grew bitch tits as well during this period. To this day he claims he never touched the stuff, even to close friends.

Things like this shaped my view of the mentality of the bodybuilder.

 

[qbkilla]

What is my agenda? To get insulin sales going downward? I am always talking about how I see GH turning rare people into superfreaks so is my agenda increased GH sales? How do i make money from that? I dont sell gh.
Do you personally believe insulin is the thing that separates bodybuilders from freakdom? Why not try it then? I have. I know a great many people have and the majority got to the point that they thought "wow this stuff is grossly overrated and it might be the whole kitchen sink that is actually doing something instead of this insulin soapdish"

Insulin...good at gaining weight if gaining weight is a problem and Chad used to have people use it once or twice a week with alot of dextrose....since then its really fallen to the wayside for most people.

Some people might still be high on it but I dont know a great many.

So my agenda is what exactly? Please dont say supplement sales. 99% of my posts have nothing to do with supplements.....

dante id like to hear what you think GH does for your average guy. obviousley certain people turn into freaks from it, but for the majority what benefits do you see? Just some fat loss, or do higher dosages 10+ iu per day have decent muscle building affects in most people? Or do the majority just get fat loss? Or perhaps if most get fat loss, it allows them to eat more food which = more muscle without getting fat and that is how it works.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

ahhh forget it....who cares

 

[sexy flexy]

saying pro bodyguilders don't do alot of gh,and or insulin
is like saying nfl players are natural.
insulin works when done properly is safe and puts on alot of mass for just about anyone. and you don't even have to do aas with it to put on nice quality mass....all the top bodybuilders do it..i mean it would be pretty stupid
if they didn't..it would also be really stupid for them to tell anyone how much they do of anything.

 

[NPCS FINEST]

ahhh forget it....who cares

NO NO..dont be posting like this....WE CARE BRO....I came to this thread to read YOUR replies...!!! Post up brother!!

Just cause there are one or two members that "might not want to hear it" doesnt mean the 1000's of us members who do should have to suffer for it.....your post and threads mean so much to alot of members here bro!!!

 

[NPCS FINEST]

Killer stack ......I was actually put in touch with Phil heath and Frank Mc grath at about the same time .....both were interested in my help because they heard I was knowledgable ....and wasn't some gay shmoe type or looking to swing from their nuts .....they both were really broke and heard I liked to help people .....Phil health "stack was 800 mg of t-400 and 40 eq .....with zero gh [Frank's was more than double that ].....this was maybe 4 months before his USA win.....he HAD not used gh yet ......[ the guy had zero knowledge of drugs period and was broke as hell ] .....He then got introduced to Jay Cutler and Jay took over from there [getting sponsorship and I am sure hook ups as well].....The last e-mail I reciecved from Phil when I didn't end up helping him said he was looking into gh , winnie ,test , and tren .....but seeing his pics of the usa that yr ...I 'd say he probably didn't use gh ....as his condidtion was very dry and lines were nice and clean ....plus he only weighed 212 .....Do I think the 30 lb he has added the last 5 yrs has made him look better ? Nope .....his head is bigger ...his abs are coming apart ....waist is bigger .....and his muscles look too blown up for my taste .......But the guy is defnately the best in the world right now or at least top 3 ......he is amazing plus on top of that he is a cool guy and reps bbing quite well .......He definately added Gh and I don't think it helped him much .....he is holding more water these days .....he gets ripped ....but looks softer and the lines arent as clean imo .......could insulin have played a role ? Yep ......but if a guy like Dante or Skip say no ,then I would believe them [ Skip isn't going to bs and has known Phil from the very begining.....he saw his genetics from day one and put us together] I don't know why you guys don't get that Dante and Skip are as honest and solid as they come period end of story .......My God ....Dante posts not for the the sake of his business you silly rabbits......he posts because he loves bbing , likes to help others , and wants to maybe keep people healthy as well informed .[ not fooled by internet hersay] Believe me ......he has better things to do with his time .......who do you think he really trying to protect ? I can tell you I know two pros very well [ both have placed top 5 in pro shows in the last couple yrs ] neither uses or likes insulin [both tried yrs ago ....one with Milos and one with my help ]......I don't think it is popular much at all [I did like it myself though].....and I think gh is more popular than ever because it is cheap and available ...... but after a number of yrs ....it thickens the skin...and the skin gets certain look to it .[if you get into the over ten iu doses for long periods ....] you see head , hand , feet , and nose growth .....your seperation decreases......you look watery and puffy while being lean [ probably not healthy either .....thats just and observation .....so gh isnt the end all ,be all that it is being hyped as of lately imo.].....did ronnie and jay use insulin ? I don't know .....but my opinion is yes ......did they abuse it ? Nope they are genetic freaks with great response to drugs, I bet there cycles were in the 2 gram range ......btw my two pro friends are in the 2-3 gram range ......I just think you fellas that aurgue with dante and think he is hiding the truth are so off base ......i personally have known the man for 18 yrs ......he is freaking honest as they come .....he an east coast old school guy and as honorable as they come ....and I put that on my life!!! He went from working for 12 bucks an hour to multi millionare in 7 yrs because he built his rep first over a period of yrs on the net by being honest and helping others......his products are top notch and they speak for themselves.....he doesn't need to pimp his company or himself ......His actions speak for themselves ......I like you killerstack....you are pretty smart and honest yourself .....but this going back and forth with Dante is funny to me ......because if you knew him as I do ....you would see you have been wasting your time .....I promise you he is a solid guy that in person you would like a lot .....

I suggest any new members that just came to PM or even the older members that are here...click on this bro's name...and do a search for all the threads and post he has made...all 1400 some of them!!!

 

[Magnum]

Bottom line is people lie. Years ago when I was compteting I knew a guy who never told his wife until after he was done competing that he used. They were glued to the hip most of the time and he would come into the gym and shoot up in the mens room everyday. She used to brag about how her hubby was natural. We liked the guy so we just kept our mouths shut.

Another kid I used to train few years always brought his buddy with him. The friends had very good genetics and swore up and down to everyone he was natty and pretty well known in the area. He even won a few shows and there were NOT natty shows! One day he was talking to me and started to talk about how he loved MIT. All of the sudden he stopped and by the look on his face he knew he was busted. Found out this kid used only orals, but loved MIT. His physique was VERY dense looking.

So when I hear about people who think they know someone and since they know them there is no way they would lie, well tell this to the wife of my friend. Imagine all those years she was with this guy same, house same bathroom, almost always together. Not one single piece of evidence that her husband even touched a drug.

 

[mexbeast]

mr, dante

NO NO..dont be posting like this....WE CARE BRO....I came to this thread to read YOUR replies...!!! Post up brother!!

Just cause there are one or two members that "might not want to hear it" doesnt mean the 1000's of us members who do should have to suffer for it.....your post and threads mean so much to alot of members here bro!!!

:yeahthat: i must admit i don't like dogcrapp training; but dc is THE MOST realistic poster we have on this board! i love reading all your post dc, and no i don't know mr,dante and no i am not kissing your ass!

 

[Queefer]

I suggest any new members that just came to PM or even the older members that are here...click on this bro's name...and do a search for all the threads and post he has made...all 1400 some of them!!!

YES, Iabadman, DC, and Magnum, to me are perhaps the 3 most real world knowledgeable guys on our board! If someone were just starting out their lifting and aas careers, I would tell them to read everything these guys say!

 

[LATS]

the bottom line is how you look on stage.. does nt matter how ya got there just what ya show on that stage.. a win is a win..

i have said numerous times people lie all the time in regards to usage.. i have caught numerous people.. and yes, there is no one that know what anyone is doing unless you go to the bathrrom with them to take a crap.. in other words you are not with them 24/7.. but in reality, as much as these threads can be fun, they dont matter.. bring the best package you can to the stage and let the chips fall where they may..

if you choose to abuse so be it.. but dont ever assume it is all drugs... that is way to simplistic.. i can tell ya those that win usually train the hardest.. and yes have the best genetics .. drugs just bring out the freak, so to speak..