Lowering/pull testosterone vs. letrozole pre contest

[TheOtherOne55]

I assume he was using lantus in response to his GH dose. But at that point in a diet, you SHOULD be so lean that blood sugar problems are irrelevant. So i agree the lantus use along with just about every dose he is taking is fuckin insane.

Personally, I’ve only seen problems with lantus as large doses. Like 60-100iu daily usage when we’ve seen guys use it in blocks of the off-season for gains. We just see massive insulin resistance quiiick at that point. But NOT the 10-40iu usage when attempting to control blood sugar.

 

[bbxtreme]

I assume he was using lantus in response to his GH dose. But at that point in a diet, you SHOULD be so lean that blood sugar problems are irrelevant. So i agree the lantus use along with just about every dose he is taking is fuckin insane.

Personally, I’ve only seen problems with lantus as large doses. Like 60-100iu daily usage when we’ve seen guys use it in blocks of the off-season for gains. We just see massive insulin resistance quiiick at that point. But NOT the 10-40iu usage when attempting to control blood sugar.

Agreed. I just don’t think anyone at 200 pounds at his height should have to be using lantus. If I remember he’s doing 11 units of Humalog pre workout too.

I’ve ran up to a vial a day or meditropes and never had to alter my insulin intake because of it or use berberine.

And now only do 6-10 units of Geno’s and insulin only on my 2 high days with better results IMO.

Again, as we’ve all said he’s doing it all backwards and he’s going to pay the price and hit a hard ceiling IMO. It’s just hard to watch. But hey, we all tried.

 

[bbxtreme]

Yea man i hear you. Also I’m turning 31. So not in my 20s but not that it matters. My goal is to blast my face off as hard as I can without seriously hurting myself with the goal of getting as big as I can get by the age of 36.

When I lost the business I dropped out of medical school for that I ran from 2013-2022 I needed something to fill my time and decided to do nothing but life like a full time bodybuilder. I haven’t done anything else in the last 2 years since I’ve started.

So diet, sleep etc all couldn’t be more dialed. As in I do experiments to see if things work better. But when I have a plan, there isn’t deviation from it.

The gear being too high I’d prob agree with. Right now it probably is for sure. I’m comming down in dose to rebound soon and I’m going to hold it there lower for this comming bulk. This is when I will evaluate lower dosing to see if I need to indeed push it. You have to think I was at about 60% of the total dose for all but the last 3-4 weeks. So I’m not worried about 4 weeks of being on too high of a dose poisoning me and leaving me doomed to run endlessly higher and higher doses till I stall out at 220lb 5% bf on 5 grams of gear.

In terms of coaches, I know it sounds arrogant to say, but every thing that coaches don’t agree on or variable that’s still not yet known that some coach knows, I’m in the process of trying to figure out for myself. Not for results but because that’s the part I enjoy the most. In terms of the basics, the tried and true methods that any coach would tell me I already know all of that and have my own clients already. Mostly natty guys and people with weird medical where they go to docs and they say “umm here’s some ssris… it’s probably that” lol

But nah man thank you for looking out. I do appreciate it. It’s hard to convey my tone over this text. But I’m really
Listening and hearing you out.

This is not me saying I know everything or even more than most, I’m just saying the basics, when you’ve done nothing but watch and listen and read bodybuilding content from high level guys for the last 3 years. Picking up the basics isn’t exactly rocket science. Everything has already been said before for the most part.

I know how to bulk effectively and I know how to get shredded. There isn’t really much more to it than that.

Work with Justin, Milos, Luki, or AJ and I guarantee you that you’ll shave 10 years off your learning curve.

But more important than that, coaches like them keep you from going off the rails and accountable. It’s not as much about teaching you what to do, but what NOT to do.

I have multiple degrees and have been doing this since I was 15 and a member here since 2007. But I still work with AJ for a reason. Why learn the hard way.

 

[luki7788]

the author of the post uses at least 2x too much gear in relation to his muscle mass - besides, the things he described here that he does will not result in progress, but in the fact that in 2 years he will have a ruined body and methanolism

 

[jaxino]

Yea man i hear you. Also I’m turning 31. So not in my 20s but not that it matters. My goal is to blast my face off as hard as I can without seriously hurting myself with the goal of getting as big as I can get by the age of 36.

When I lost the business I dropped out of medical school for that I ran from 2013-2022 I needed something to fill my time and decided to do nothing but life like a full time bodybuilder. I haven’t done anything else in the last 2 years since I’ve started.

So diet, sleep etc all couldn’t be more dialed. As in I do experiments to see if things work better. But when I have a plan, there isn’t deviation from it.

The gear being too high I’d prob agree with. Right now it probably is for sure. I’m comming down in dose to rebound soon and I’m going to hold it there lower for this comming bulk. This is when I will evaluate lower dosing to see if I need to indeed push it. You have to think I was at about 60% of the total dose for all but the last 3-4 weeks. So I’m not worried about 4 weeks of being on too high of a dose poisoning me and leaving me doomed to run endlessly higher and higher doses till I stall out at 220lb 5% bf on 5 grams of gear.

In terms of coaches, I know it sounds arrogant to say, but every thing that coaches don’t agree on or variable that’s still not yet known that some coach knows, I’m in the process of trying to figure out for myself. Not for results but because that’s the part I enjoy the most. In terms of the basics, the tried and true methods that any coach would tell me I already know all of that and have my own clients already. Mostly natty guys and people with weird medical where they go to docs and they say “umm here’s some ssris… it’s probably that” lol

But nah man thank you for looking out. I do appreciate it. It’s hard to convey my tone over this text. But I’m really
Listening and hearing you out.

This is not me saying I know everything or even more than most, I’m just saying the basics, when you’ve done nothing but watch and listen and read bodybuilding content from high level guys for the last 3 years. Picking up the basics isn’t exactly rocket science. Everything has already been said before for the most part.

I know how to bulk effectively and I know how to get shredded. There isn’t really much more to it than that.

I think that you should listen a tad more and deeply about what Justin Harris says....

You can't build more than a certain amount of muscle a year.

That said.... BLASTING HARD is just a very bad idea, because you are burning the candle from both sides.

 

[Parabolic33]

the author of the post uses at least 2x too much gear in relation to his muscle mass - besides, the things he described here that he does will not result in progress, but in the fact that in 2 years he will have a ruined body and methanolism

What’s not going to result in progress ?
The gear being to high I agree wirh. I wanted to try it being higher for like this for the last 4 weeks, before that I was much lower at 1820 mg per week.

In terms of progress it’s objectivly not true that it’s not working for me though. Be she obviously it has given the amount of size I’ve put on in the last 23 months being128 to 200+ at single digit bodyfat.

Will the doses slow me down long term ? That you def have a point l, so I’d consider taking expertise in that area for sure.

 

[Doitagain]

I’ve prepped both ways for shows. I personally liked how I looked and felt better running test prop straight through.

Same.
I just kept it within 500-600mg/week for the last 8 weeks, added “hardeners “ last 6 weeks (Mast Prop, Winstrol, Halo) and a tiny bit of arimidex last 3 weeks.
Felt and looked better.

 

[Parabolic33]

I think that you should listen a tad more and deeply about what Justin Harris says....

You can't build more than a certain amount of muscle a year.

That said.... BLASTING HARD is just a very bad idea, because you are burning the candle from both sides.

I’m very aware, I’ve made this decision to make a push to get at big as I can and learn everything that I can about bodybuilding first hand until the age of 36. I started at 29. That’s why I’m doing things in a condensed time frame. I’m now 30, as long as I keep my health good with no immediate sign of risk on blood work, blood pressure, heart and other organs appear normal on imaging etc. assuming all of that is in place, I’m going for it, with the goal of getting as big as I can before the age of 36

I started bodybuilding late in life. I was 29 years old when I first got on gear and started lifting. at 128lb 5’10”.. I’m also very aware how you “aren’t supposed to do that” and why you’re not supposed to do that in regard to being on gear without having even trained naturally for only 2-3 months.

But even with the reasons why you’re not supposed to do that, I still had other personal reasons for why I deemed it personally worth it to me. Even though I agree with the sentiment in 90% of scenarios.

I Wanna get as big as I can by 36. Started at 29 at 128lb 5’10” sitting here at 30 years old, single digit (probably 4-6% bodyfat) somewhere around 200lb- maybe slightly over. (I’m not sure my exact weight since I’ve been cutting aggressively, like actually aggressively, in an approximately 7300 calorie deficit per week so I’m very depleted, and haven’t been near maintenance in weeks so I don’t know my final “stage weight” would even be yet. even though competing this current cutting phase.

I’m planning to end this cut and start carbing up to do a peaking protocol after this coming Wednesday 11/22. Then bulking hard to see if I can get some sort of “rebound “ if this does actually exist for the next 4-8 weeks.
Pulling out all the orals and injectables on that Wednesday 11/22 and then won’t take another shot of EQ for 4 weeks, then will resume EQ probably at 315 per week solo . Or I might start up a dose of Test at 300mg per week

so ill Be rebounding as everything tapers out with the main thing being the EQ still significantly in the background.

 

[bbxtreme]

I’m very aware, I’ve made this decision to make a push to get at big as I can and learn everything that I can about bodybuilding first hand until the age of 36. I started at 29. That’s why I’m doing things in a condensed time frame. I’m now 30, as long as I keep my health good with no immediate sign of risk on blood work, blood pressure, heart and other organs appear normal on imaging etc. assuming all of that is in place, I’m going for it, with the goal of getting as big as I can before the age of 36

I started bodybuilding late in life. I was 29 years old when I first got on gear and started lifting. at 128lb 5’10”.. I’m also very aware how you “aren’t supposed to do that” and why you’re not supposed to do that in regard to being on gear without having even trained naturally for only 2-3 months.

But even with the reasons why you’re not supposed to do that, I still had other personal reasons for why I deemed it personally worth it to me. Even though I agree with the sentiment in 90% of scenarios.

I Wanna get as big as I can by 36. Started at 29 at 128lb 5’10” sitting here at 30 years old, single digit (probably 4-6% bodyfat) somewhere around 200lb- maybe slightly over. (I’m not sure my exact weight since I’ve been cutting aggressively, like actually aggressively, in an approximately 7300 calorie deficit per week so I’m very depleted, and haven’t been near maintenance in weeks so I don’t know my final “stage weight” would even be yet. even though competing this current cutting phase.

I’m planning to end this cut and start carbing up to do a peaking protocol after this coming Wednesday 11/22. Then bulking hard to see if I can get some sort of “rebound “ if this does actually exist for the next 4-8 weeks.
Pulling out all the orals and injectables on that Wednesday 11/22 and then won’t take another shot of EQ for 4 weeks, then will resume EQ probably at 315 per week solo . Or I might start up a dose of Test at 300mg per week

so ill Be rebounding as everything tapers out with the main thing being the EQ still significantly in the background.

This right here- “if this does actually exist.”

I’m gathering you’re the type of person that doesn’t believe something until you experience it yourself. Again, not knocking you as many are that way.

But without a doubt it exist and you are about to miss out on the most valuable anabolic growth window by having this mindset. Fading out EQ, maybe add Test…

All while not even knowing your bodyweight. I bet you most guys on here including myself could tell you their exact weight on the fly daily to the decimal point who are serious.

Formulate a plan, use wisdom from those who’ve come before you. And take this opportunity to make some serious progress. Because if not, you’re going to be 36 and exactly where you are now if not worse.

You made great progress as we’ve all read your story on here a dozen times as you post it in response to everyone who tries to help.

But real talk- jumping straight to 2 grams of gear, 11 units of Humalog, HGH and Lantus every night to hit 200 pounds at your height isn’t monumental.

Love your passion and drive, but just hope you apply it right and get out of your own way.

Promise I’m done giving unsolicited advice and not even sure why I care lol.

Do you and hope you prove us all wrong and last for the long haul.

 

[Parabolic33]

This right here- “if this does actually exist.”

I’m gathering you’re the type of person that doesn’t believe something until you experience it yourself. Again, not knocking you as many are that way.

But without a doubt it exist and you are about to miss out on the most valuable anabolic growth window by having this mindset. Fading out EQ, maybe add Test…

All while not even knowing your bodyweight. I bet you most guys on here including myself could tell you their exact weight on the fly daily to the decimal point who are serious.

Formulate a plan, use wisdom from those who’ve come before you. And take this opportunity to make some serious progress. Because if not, you’re going to be 36 and exactly where you are now if not worse.

You made great progress as we’ve all read your story on here a dozen times as you post it in response to everyone who tries to help.

But real talk- jumping straight to 2 grams of gear, 11 units of Humalog, HGH and Lantus every night to hit 200 pounds at your height isn’t monumental.

Love your passion and drive, but just hope you apply it right and get out of your own way.

Promise I’m done giving unsolicited advice and not even sure why I care lol.

Do you and hope you prove us all wrong and last for the long haul.

I believe in it. But said it that way because I’ve been equally shit on in this same forum for talking about rebound growth lol. So apparently there are people just as adamant as you in the opposite direction.

I experienced some of it last cut last year and blew up to 220lb still around 12-18% bf. Kind hard to judge body fat for me in this range.

And I hit that 220lb on 500 test and for2-3 weeks brought in 150 mg ment.

I am legit just guessing my weight here when I say I’m 200lb. And then you say only “200lb 5’10” You have to keep in mind I’m not even just single digits, I’m like a legit 5% bodyfat right now. I’ve been super depleted The last 8 weeks now. My weight fluctuates a lot. So I really have no idea what I’m going to weigh once I hydrate and load up on carbs. You have to figure I was 220 and still with abs in august. Maybe I’ll carb up and be 210lb 5%

My weight has been hovering around the 190s but like insane depleted from Starving. And I can tell because as soon as I put down 200-300carbs my weight shoots up 8-10lb + while still in a deficit and still depleted. Just “less” depleted.

. I don’t know because this will only be my second cut ever that I’m finishing up right now.

I appreciate the tips man. No like I really do. But just hearing something like I’m going to be the same size at 36 or worse off when I’ve grown over 25lb in the last year is just really
Difficult to wrap my head around.

Even if I grew only 5lb of weight each year from here on out (1/5th the rate I’ve been growing the last year), I’d still be 225-230 at 5%. Not exactly a small guy imo. Especially when you consider that same guy is probably walking around at 260-280 in the off-season.

Who knows though… maybe I’ll have grown 75-80lb of actual stage weight in the last 20 months. Get up to 220lb then just the next 6 years out of nowhere I fully am in capeable of growing another 5-10more lb. Just seems highly unlikely to me. But that might be my own arrogance. Why would somebody grow 60lb the first year 40 the second and then less than 5lb the third year. Makes no sense to me intuitively

 

[Parabolic33]

This right here- “if this does actually exist.”

I’m gathering you’re the type of person that doesn’t believe something until you experience it yourself. Again, not knocking you as many are that way.

But without a doubt it exist and you are about to miss out on the most valuable anabolic growth window by having this mindset. Fading out EQ, maybe add Test…

All while not even knowing your bodyweight. I bet you most guys on here including myself could tell you their exact weight on the fly daily to the decimal point who are serious.

Formulate a plan, use wisdom from those who’ve come before you. And take this opportunity to make some serious progress. Because if not, you’re going to be 36 and exactly where you are now if not worse.

You made great progress as we’ve all read your story on here a dozen times as you post it in response to everyone who tries to help.

But real talk- jumping straight to 2 grams of gear, 11 units of Humalog, HGH and Lantus every night to hit 200 pounds at your height isn’t monumental.

Love your passion and drive, but just hope you apply it right and get out of your own way.

Promise I’m done giving unsolicited advice and not even sure why I care lol.

Do you and hope you prove us all wrong and last for the long haul.

I check my weight more than twice a day. It fluctuates over 16 lb per week. So it’s like what’s my actual weight ?

 

[Parabolic33]

This right here- “if this does actually exist.”

I’m gathering you’re the type of person that doesn’t believe something until you experience it yourself. Again, not knocking you as many are that way.

But without a doubt it exist and you are about to miss out on the most valuable anabolic growth window by having this mindset. Fading out EQ, maybe add Test…

All while not even knowing your bodyweight. I bet you most guys on here including myself could tell you their exact weight on the fly daily to the decimal point who are serious.

Formulate a plan, use wisdom from those who’ve come before you. And take this opportunity to make some serious progress. Because if not, you’re going to be 36 and exactly where you are now if not worse.

You made great progress as we’ve all read your story on here a dozen times as you post it in response to everyone who tries to help.

But real talk- jumping straight to 2 grams of gear, 11 units of Humalog, HGH and Lantus every night to hit 200 pounds at your height isn’t monumental.

Love your passion and drive, but just hope you apply it right and get out of your own way.

Promise I’m done giving unsolicited advice and not even sure why I care lol.

Do you and hope you prove us all wrong and last for the long haul.

When you’re cutting down to 4-5% you haven’t experienced this level of water fluctuation.

I’m assuming you must have been down to 4-6% Atleast three or four times right ? Maybe your body is different and doesn’t jump around as much

 

[Parabolic33]

I assume he was using lantus in response to his GH dose. But at that point in a diet, you SHOULD be so lean that blood sugar problems are irrelevant. So i agree the lantus use along with just about every dose he is taking is fuckin insane.

Personally, I’ve only seen problems with lantus as large doses. Like 60-100iu daily usage when we’ve seen guys use it in blocks of the off-season for gains. We just see massive insulin resistance quiiick at that point. But NOT the 10-40iu usage when attempting to control blood sugar.

I don’t need Lantus to control blood sugar I’m using it for fat loss. It’s actually a thing believe it or not

 

[Parabolic33]

the author of the post uses at least 2x too much gear in relation to his muscle mass - besides, the things he described here that he does will not result in progress, but in the fact that in 2 years he will have a ruined body and methanolism

Are you alleging I’m going to grow 60 the first year, 40 the second then how many the 3rd year into lifting ? 5lb? Less ? Because if if you low ball the shit out of me, 5lb a year for the next 6 still puts me at 225-230 at 5% 260-270 in the off-season.

And I’d consider that a win.

Unless you’re going to show me evidence this is it for me 80lb in under 2 years then what? 0 gains ? Why? Why the heck would that make sense. Maybe I’m legit stupid. It makes no intuitive sense to me

Is actually just occurred to me you either don’t believe me outright. Think I’m exaggerating. Or haven’t read what I said at all.

And you see the key words “200lb, “5’10” 2 grams”, “Lantus” and you assemble a story in your mind that doesn’t even fit what’s happening here.

 

[luki7788]

Are you alleging I’m going to grow 60 the first year, 40 the second then how many the 3rd year into lifting ? 5lb? Less ? Because if if you low ball the shit out of me, 5lb a year for the next 6 still puts me at 225-230 at 5% 260-270 in the off-season.

And I’d consider that a win.

Unless you’re going to show me evidence this is it for me 80lb in under 2 years then what? 0 gains ? Why? Why the heck would that make sense. Maybe I’m legit stupid. It makes no intuitive sense to me

Is actually just occurred to me you either don’t believe me outright. Think I’m exaggerating. Or haven’t read what I said at all.

And you see the key words “200lb, “5’10” 2 grams”, “Lantus” and you assemble a story in your mind that doesn’t even fit what’s happening here.

I don't know why you're attacking me now, but I see that I simply didn't need to comment on your topic - you do what you want, it's your life and health and I don't care

 

[bbxtreme]

When you’re cutting down to 4-5% you haven’t experienced this level of water fluctuation.

I’m assuming you must have been down to 4-6% Atleast three or four times right ? Maybe your body is different and doesn’t jump around as much

You have got to put your responses on one message man. I can only imagine your brain is like “oh I forgot this”. Take a breath and formulate a full response.

Yes I’ve been that low in BF% many times and competed multiple times and win. But I can tell you that if you think you’re going to weigh in at 190 and blow up to 220 on stage then you don’t have this sport figured out lol. Not unless you want to look like a water buffalo.

Your weight should be planted pretty firm the last few weeks going into a show. Not drastically fluctuating.

But what everyone is trying to tell you is that you’re using way too much gear and shouldn’t be using lantus for weight loss. You’re going about it all wrong. But I get it, you need to let this play out for yourself and learn that way. It’s going to cost you though health wise and you’ll hit a ceiling.

Best of luck with it all!

 

[marssel]

Switch to prop 4 weeks out and cut it 10 days out, if you’re flat you can pop a little day before prejudging. Cut GH too at 10 out and I wouldn’t put it back flat or not. Letro isn’t necessary here but adding nolva will keep your androgen to estrogen ratio whacked to high hell andro side which for a few weeks is ok. I get hardest on nolva and Provirion precontest. Letro for me is just too much unless you’re high dosing test and of all the AIs it seems to be the most harsh on mental state which no matter how good you look you’re generally head fucked the last week so why add a drug that depresses you. If you feel off or soft/weak pop halo those last days.

 

[marssel]

You have got to put your responses on one message man. I can only imagine your brain is like “oh I forgot this”. Take a breath and formulate a full response.

Yes I’ve been that low in BF% many times and competed multiple times and win. But I can tell you that if you think you’re going to weigh in at 190 and blow up to 220 on stage then you don’t have this sport figured out lol. Not unless you want to look like a water buffalo.

Your weight should be planted pretty firm the last few weeks going into a show. Not drastically fluctuating.

But what everyone is trying to tell you is that you’re using way too much gear and shouldn’t be using lantus for weight loss. You’re going about it all wrong. But I get it, you need to let this play out for yourself and learn that way. It’s going to cost you though health wise and you’ll hit a ceiling.

Best of luck with it all!

Also this obsession with weight will fuck you up man, it’s all about the mirror. I’ve done shows as a MW where I was better in some of my SHW shows. Always under 5% bf been there over 20-25 times and it’s always different. I’ve won an overall on the 7th and the 14th got beat by the guy I beat the 7th. I’ll tell you the worst I ever looked was my first time as a super I was worried about coming in as heavy as possible while still lean and it’s the worst showing I’ve had minus my very first shoes I did natty with just the Arnold Enclyopedia of Bodybuilding for my guide. This sport will grind you mentally like nothing else, the closer to game time the weaker you are physically and mentally and you gotta shelve that shit and be honest with yourself and only let a small honest few get in your ear. Every other sport guys come in fed, rested, refueled before battle we go at it dehydrated, underfed, sleep deprived, and mentally exhausted that’s why there are so few true bodybuilders

 

[bbxtreme]

Also this obsession with weight will fuck you up man, it’s all about the mirror. I’ve done shows as a MW where I was better in some of my SHW shows. Always under 5% bf been there over 20-25 times and it’s always different. I’ve won an overall on the 7th and the 14th got beat by the guy I beat the 7th. I’ll tell you the worst I ever looked was my first time as a super I was worried about coming in as heavy as possible while still lean and it’s the worst showing I’ve had minus my very first shoes I did natty with just the Arnold Enclyopedia of Bodybuilding for my guide. This sport will grind you mentally like nothing else, the closer to game time the weaker you are physically and mentally and you gotta shelve that shit and be honest with yourself and only let a small honest few get in your ear. Every other sport guys come in fed, rested, refueled before battle we go at it dehydrated, underfed, sleep deprived, and mentally exhausted that’s why there are so few true bodybuilders

Agreed and much better said than I put it. The mirror never lies. Nobody cares about your BF% or weight on a stage. It’s all about who looks the best!

 

[Parabolic33]

dope. That’s what I’m here for.

So I started halo 8 days ago, 20mg, I’m weaker in the gym for a while now and the wisntrol 50-75 daily isn’t helping it seems, but I’ve also been on that since before my strength went down.

I don’t actually notice strength from halo either. Like some days in general im weaker than others in the gym. So it’s hard to say if those days im stronger are from halo or from being more fed slightly or what it is. I increased to 30mg 4 days ago and don’t notice it either. Mentally I feel a bit more short, but I’ve also got into weird circumstances lately where I got some
Bad luck. Hard to say. But I got unusually upset, for me which was like for about 4 minutes.

Just last night I felt like I looked. Bit more dry, but also hard to say because I cut out my estradiol( yea I’m not using test) and according to the calculator I’m at about 30pg/ml now from the 112pg/ml I was at 2 weeks ago. So that was holding water on me too.

I don’t know how I will fill out yet since I haven’t had a refeed in about5 weeks now and it’s going to be the first one where I’m actually like undeniably peeled to the bone with glute striations and dry looking even in the glutes despite my e2 still having been high.


For strength the only think I’ve noticed that helped was 25mg SuperDrol. Tried 50 mg Anadrol a couple days in the last few weeks pre workout and didn’t get much from that besides a fuller look. No strength though from that either. The SuperDrol knocked my socks off thingy and I felt this like static in me head( blood pressure was relatively normal ) I checked after the gym and I was at 145-75 which isn’t unusual for being post workout