Is Phil Heath all Insulin?

[mexbeast]

hey b-boy you have used jumbo palumbo as an example, right? so if you think slin will make you huge [along with gh] why does dave believe so whole heartedly in his keto diet? or does he secretly prescribe it to his clients? [slin] along with a 1000gs of carbs?

[werfewgrt]

Originally Posted by mexbeast

hey b-boy you have used jumbo palumbo as an example, right? so if you think slin will make you huge [along with gh] why does dave believe so whole heartedly in his keto diet? or does he secretly prescribe it to his clients? [slin] along with a 1000gs of carbs?

You don't need lots of carbs while on slin bro.

[massnup]

Originally Posted by Magnum

The difference is about 5 years of drug use. So many people make the mistake of looking at a big guy and thinking that he is big because he has some kind of super genetics. NEWS FLASH.................................steroids BUILD MUSCLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you happen to know what this guy did drug wise over the 5 years?

[Magnum]

Originally Posted by massnup

Do you happen to know what this guy did drug wise over the 5 years?

steroids? No not specifically.

[LATS]

i see what both sides are saying.. i really do.. but some are just making this too simplistic.. to say that all it takes is a boatload of drugs to make make to national level is nonsense.. i have seen guys take boatloads of drugs..i have seen them on every board also.. i have seen guys follow a great diet and meticulous training plan.. and yet are not impressive.. so would doubling the amounts work? no.. just more sides and a few more pounds.. IF YOU DONT HAVE IT YOU DONT HAVE IT...!!! it is really that simple..

we can sit here and site example after example but the fact remains that the guy with the best genetics generally wins all things being equal.. no drug can or will make up for muscle shape, structure and drive..

now that being said , genetics are much more than that.. they encompass ones ability to assimulate food .. ones ability to withstand the constant joint abuse and heal.. ones ability to withstand the drugs and their adverse effects.. the list goes on.. but, if you dont have the shape and structure chances are slim with even most of the all the above..

DANTE brings up blacks in his thread.. well he is right.. 100 %.. no debate.. when i owned my gyms i had just a handful of black members.. each one surpassed all of my members in a short amount of time..NATURALLY... they did not care about the names of exercises.. or what to eat.. it did not enter into thought.. a dumbbell row was the "lawn mower pulls".. the concentration curl was the "squeezes".. lateral raises was the "bird".. they did not care to know anything.. they lifted.. they eat fast food.. they went back into the gym again.. if they were tired you did not see them for a few days.. again, sometimes the less ya know the more ya grow.. now tell me, would these guys need much in the way of anabolics to grow? hell no.. they would need the minimal amount..

i have mentioned one guy numerous times.. just a freak.. a literal 27 inch waist.. abs (never trained them).. trained two to three hours a day.. ate pizza and beer.. would drink a blue thunder protein drink after each workout.. that was it.. breakfast was donuts and mountain dew.. i could go on.. this guy went on 25 mgs of dbol.. it was all he could afford and i knew the guy who sold it to him and he bought 10 weeks worth.. went from 168 to 191 at 5'5 and was lean.. very lean.. no bloat .. on not eating and way overtraining.. we later leaned that he was using only 15mgs of dbol and was hoping to "stretch it out" longer but his lady found them and pitched them.. lol..

so what i am saying is they do exist.. the freak are out there and they dont require much to grow.. now once they learn they generally up the dose ect and we see true freaks.. but they were winning titles on much less than we see on this board..

and as i have stated numerous times.. no one knows what others are taking people do fib.. i take that back.. THEY LIE.. there are more guys lying about their "low dose" routine then the other way around.. but the sport at the high end is still about genetics.. and genetics encompasses everything.. DO NOT FORGET IT.. again if ya dont have it no amount of test or hgh will make ya make up for it.. will ya get bigger.. yep.. will ya look freaky to everyone in the mall? yep.. will ya take nationals? pretty slim unless no one else shows..

i know how dante is talking about.. the trainer is a flippin" genius.. knows his crap better than most anyone.. and what he has achieved himself is what inspires me everyday.. huge transformation.. and his drive? forget it.. no one is close in the gym.. but he has trained this pro for years after years.. i am sure they do most everything exactly from compounds to sets and reps.. and yet this pro dwarfs hims.. hhhmmm.. why? ok ok.. GENETICS...

i agree with many things that magnum says.. yes, most fib about their drug use.. i have caught too many to believe otherwise.. plus, as i have stated in the past they dont want the drugs getting too much of the credit.. and yes abuse is very prevelant.. but what dante says is still the most common denominator.. everything equal, genetics wins out.. can you abuse drugs and maybe win your state title? yep.. can you abuse and maybe win your class at nationals? could.. but what are ya doing to yourself in the process? chances are if you are not high on the genetics scale your body is not really handling the drugs that well as mr genes standing next to ya.. but keep pushin'.. get that trophy..

[Medic08]

Originally Posted by Magnum

OK so you showed me a quote that says "some experts warned" really? that's research? What study is this? What do you expect a Dr to say when asked about bber's abusing drugs? Every single one of them will say the same thing because they have to whether it is true or not. There are plenty of people who use insulin for the short term, pregnant women for one, but don't take my word for it look things up right?

Here's one for ya. I trained a 57 year old lady (not for bbing) who was very over weight smoked and was using 30 units of insulin for many years. I cleaned up her diet and she got off her insulin. This lady was on insulin for years!!! Oh and she smoked too. Lo and behold her pancreas worked fine. This is real word first hand knowledge that I acquired. So think about this, she was taking insulin so she could eat large amounts of sugar. How does this differ from what BBers do? At least our diets are better and hopefully they don't smoke.

Bottom line is taking insulin when not needed is not a very smart choice whether it's to get big or so you can eat snickers bars all day long, but two guys guys debating over the best way to abuse a drug is even dumberer.

Hahaha! Yeah, I really wasn't trying to argue. You just told me do some research and I was just showing you the most recent thing I read. Didn't think you'd "get on my side" or anything.... I'm sure I could pull up 50 studies that shows it does, and I'm sure you could pull up 50 studies that shows that it doesn't, but that goes with anything, right? Yes, I only put up one quote, but I cited that quote just INCASE you wanted to see the rest. No argument here, bro... Just a friendly debate coming from this side.

[massnup]

Originally Posted by Magnum

steroids? No not specifically.

Yea I think thats what they're called lol I'm sure it wasn't 750 test per week with 5iu gh per day though right?

[Magnum]

Originally Posted by massnup

Yea I think thats what they're called lol I'm sure it wasn't 750 test per week with 5iu gh per day though right?

Prob a tad more.

[Magnum]

Originally Posted by Medic08

Hahaha! Yeah, I really wasn't trying to argue. You just told me do some research and I was just showing you the most recent thing I read. Didn't think you'd "get on my side" or anything.... I'm sure I could pull up 50 studies that shows it does, and I'm sure you could pull up 50 studies that shows that it doesn't, but that goes with anything, right? Yes, I only put up one quote, but I cited that quote just INCASE you wanted to see the rest. No argument here, bro... Just a friendly debate coming from this side.

Cool and yes love to debate. We all got our opinions and that's cool. Peace

[mexbeast]

Originally Posted by werfewgrt

You don't need lots of carbs while on slin bro.

so are you saying that every one who believes you need to eat 10gs of carbs per iu of islin is full of shit? i would love to see you take 20 ius of novolog slin and not eat any carbs.

[paloboi]

so summary of thread take a lot of gh and tren lol or just take small amounts because you dont have genetics to be a pro. case closed lol

[Reddman71]

This has been one interesting thread! I've learned so much by reading these pages. Some very knowledgable posters on here from B-boy,Magnum,Lats, Dante and even tarzen(gh15) etc. And to think how naive I was back in HS.Lol.

[burman]

Originally Posted by NPCS FINEST

Honestly..do you really think that any of us know how much slin he is using? Or how often they are taking it? Dont mean to come off like a dick....but these threads with " how much is pro so and so taking" are getting out of hand.

We have a TON of great info on slin..how it works..how to use it....and all that on the board....see what you come up with...and then if you have any other questions on it...post them up and we all will be glad to help you.

But as far as his muscle "not being real" ...well thats just stupid...if his muscles are not real because of slin...then we have 100's if not 1000's of members here who have fake muscles as well.....and that goes for each and EVERY pro too. He is just doing what every other pro is trying to do...and that is be the biggest, hardest, leanest pro he can be.

exactly!!! how would muscles not be real except for something like calf implants. i dont think it's even possible to put together a full Olympic figure with implants and if it is possible im sure it would be very noticeable, obviously phils muscles are very real.

[BigNShredded]

With GENETICS being equal, who wins? The guy on more DRUGS...

The guys at the upper level are ALL GENETICALLY SUPERIOR! Therefore, the guy with the most DRUGS will be the best--end of story.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but DRUGS trump all at the ELITE LEVEL, because ALL of the men competing are GENETICALLY SUPERIOR. That goes for just about ALL SPORTS!

[Iabadman]

I have to strongly disagree to that statement.......the top guys aren't taking more drugs than alot of the lower tier guys .....and if you think being Mr O is about being genetically elite and taking more drugs than your competitors, I am afraid you are mistaken ....Do you really think Phil health or Jay Culter are taking more drugs than say Ronnie Rockel or Tony freeman ? It doesn't work that way my friend.......sorry the top guys are the tops guys due to genetics ......the top 6 or 7 guys the last 20 yrs or so have had very good genes .....but the guys that did it all right day in and day out were the ones that took it to a higher level ......Haney , ronnie , Jay , and heath are machines.......they trained hard ....ate right ....take care of their minds and bodies ......and of course took their drugs......but to say they won the O because they took more drugs than the other guys is very off base ......I saw up close and personal what certain guys were doing in the 90s .....a guy like titus , was surely taking more than Dorian......so there goes your theory......[ I 'd say dorian wasn't super gifted .....but he was in it to win it ....he played to win ......I think he pushed the envelope to where it is now ....not the bs he is saying in MD now .....but from chatting with him .....he is smart .....was more driven than flex ,comier , dillet , priest , and the other guys .....he beat those guys because he wanted it more ,not because of drugs or even genetics .......I'd be willing to bet that Flex was taking more shit than dorian btw .....and he couldn't beat him and had better genteitcs.....because he didn't want to suffer as bad as dorian did ]

You guys and your all drugs ....drugs matter .....but like I said ....everyone has a genetic set point as to what they can tolerate drug wise .....if you reach it for too long or go past that ......your physique will go backwards .......so more drugs are an option ,especially if you are near maxing out your genetic thresehold......but if you think more drugs are winning top contests , the tour de france , or Olympic events you are mistaken ......I guarantee there on tons of lower tier guys or nobodys taking more shit than the winners across the board .......I personally saw this in many sports throughout my life .[ Who's taking more juice in the NFL ? Linebacker like Ray Lewis ?Or the special teams back up LB thats fighting his ass off just to make the team ? ] It is not how much drugs you take , it is how your body is able to ultilize what you are taking and how much it makes use of .........most of the guys here don't get this at all ......

[LATS]

i agree.. and we also remember that some of the more "pleasing and symmetrical" guys are some of the biggest abusers.. they just dont have the genetics for size.. but trust me they are pushing it..

[Magnum]

Originally Posted by LATS

i see what both sides are saying.. i really do.. but some are just making this too simplistic.. to say that all it takes is a boatload of drugs to make make to national level is nonsense.. i have seen guys take boatloads of drugs..i have seen them on every board also.. i have seen guys follow a great diet and meticulous training plan.. and yet are not impressive.. so would doubling the amounts work? no.. just more sides and a few more pounds.. IF YOU DONT HAVE IT YOU DONT HAVE IT...!!! it is really that simple..

we can sit here and site example after example but the fact remains that the guy with the best genetics generally wins all things being equal.. no drug can or will make up for muscle shape, structure and drive..

now that being said , genetics are much more than that.. they encompass ones ability to assimulate food .. ones ability to withstand the constant joint abuse and heal.. ones ability to withstand the drugs and their adverse effects.. the list goes on.. but, if you dont have the shape and structure chances are slim with even most of the all the above..

DANTE brings up blacks in his thread.. well he is right.. 100 %.. no debate.. when i owned my gyms i had just a handful of black members.. each one surpassed all of my members in a short amount of time..NATURALLY... they did not care about the names of exercises.. or what to eat.. it did not enter into thought.. a dumbbell row was the "lawn mower pulls".. the concentration curl was the "squeezes".. lateral raises was the "bird".. they did not care to know anything.. they lifted.. they eat fast food.. they went back into the gym again.. if they were tired you did not see them for a few days.. again, sometimes the less ya know the more ya grow.. now tell me, would these guys need much in the way of anabolics to grow? hell no.. they would need the minimal amount..

i have mentioned one guy numerous times.. just a freak.. a literal 27 inch waist.. abs (never trained them).. trained two to three hours a day.. ate pizza and beer.. would drink a blue thunder protein drink after each workout.. that was it.. breakfast was donuts and mountain dew.. i could go on.. this guy went on 25 mgs of dbol.. it was all he could afford and i knew the guy who sold it to him and he bought 10 weeks worth.. went from 168 to 191 at 5'5 and was lean.. very lean.. no bloat .. on not eating and way overtraining.. we later leaned that he was using only 15mgs of dbol and was hoping to "stretch it out" longer but his lady found them and pitched them.. lol..

so what i am saying is they do exist.. the freak are out there and they dont require much to grow.. now once they learn they generally up the dose ect and we see true freaks.. but they were winning titles on much less than we see on this board..

and as i have stated numerous times.. no one knows what others are taking people do fib.. i take that back.. THEY LIE.. there are more guys lying about their "low dose" routine then the other way around.. but the sport at the high end is still about genetics.. and genetics encompasses everything.. DO NOT FORGET IT.. again if ya dont have it no amount of test or hgh will make ya make up for it.. will ya get bigger.. yep.. will ya look freaky to everyone in the mall? yep.. will ya take nationals? pretty slim unless no one else shows..

i know how dante is talking about.. the trainer is a flippin" genius.. knows his crap better than most anyone.. and what he has achieved himself is what inspires me everyday.. huge transformation.. and his drive? forget it.. no one is close in the gym.. but he has trained this pro for years after years.. i am sure they do most everything exactly from compounds to sets and reps.. and yet this pro dwarfs hims.. hhhmmm.. why? ok ok.. GENETICS...

i agree with many things that magnum says.. yes, most fib about their drug use.. i have caught too many to believe otherwise.. plus, as i have stated in the past they dont want the drugs getting too much of the credit.. and yes abuse is very prevelant.. but what dante says is still the most common denominator.. everything equal, genetics wins out.. can you abuse drugs and maybe win your state title? yep.. can you abuse and maybe win your class at nationals? could.. but what are ya doing to yourself in the process? chances are if you are not high on the genetics scale your body is not really handling the drugs that well as mr genes standing next to ya.. but keep pushin'.. get that trophy..

Lats I always love to read your posts. I get what you are saying with this black guy you are using for an example and we all prob know or have known someone who responds like that. Now, IF and I say IF we are talking about the top guys, not necessarily "a pro", but a very large man who can rival the size of a pro, then you can bet this man is on good amounts of test, GH, insulin, Tren and masteron to name a few. I can guarentee you that to be a pro you do not have to be a responder to drugs like this guy was. I just want to make this clear as some guys on here might think that if they can get decent size while eating donuts and taking a bottle of Dbol they a not cut out to be big, a pro or whatever their goal is.

People need to understand that just because someone is a "pro" doesn't mean they take less or more or are the biggest etc. There are quite a few although not tons of guys who rival the pros in size. Maybe their genetics suck really bad and they will never win a trophy or do not feel like dieting down to 4% bodyfat. Also, I don't buy the "well if it's so easy to be a pro or to be big as a pro why isn't everyone walking around looking like one. Like I said before who really can afford or would want be on so many drugs? Bodybuilding is not as popular as it used to be and for this reason. Teen age Bbing is dead. That must tell you something right there. What 18 year old in their right mind wants to look like these guys on stage today or can afford such a drug habit???

[chris250]

Originally Posted by Iabadman

Oh yeah .....side note ....a friend of mine two yrs ago, that lives in a foriegn country .....hosted a pro for a month long tour.....this pro was top three in the O that yr ......he was guest posing ....My buddy had to supply the guy with his drugs for that month......he was in hard training for the O ......what was his cycle? 12 iu s of gh a day , 2000 mgs of test cyp ....and 3 ad 50 a day and that was it ......thats around 3grams....alot of shit imo .....and the guy looks like he takes that much .....but wheres the magical tren , masteron , and eq .....? It wasn't used in that guys build up for the O and he was top three......I just think it's funny ......late 90s and early 2000s it was lots test and insulin .....90s it was multiple compound not huge ammounts with a little gh and some ins ....80s was mostly anabolics not much test....now it is the magiacl tren ,mastron , eq ,test prop combo .....and tons of gh ....lol funny real masteron and tren was almost imposible to get not too many yrs ago ....believe me, I would know .....now everybody has it and it's great .....? Every body trusts these underground labs ....scary to me ....how do you know .....The pros I know say they never know from batch to another if their shit is going to be good .....and their condition relys on it .....if a guy bombs sometimes his gear was just crap ....I ve seen it a lot .....and the pros have the best hook up s......but so many just blindy take whatever they here is good on the net .....carzy times my friends ....crazy times

I find this interesting. was this right before the mr.o (weeks before) or after the show, when he was starting to put on size again.

[Iabadman]

It was 16 weeks before the O that yr ...... I think he had been clean and dieting a bit before that.....probably did that for 8 to 12 weeks before switching to the typical pre contest stuff ....but I do not know.....but I do know that was exactly what he was taking during those 4 weeks and all he had access to ......so thats all I could speak for . Definately got bigger ,fuller , and harder during that four weeks from what I was told ....like 15 lbs bigger....and harder

[Magnum]

Originally Posted by chris250

I find this interesting. was this right before the mr.o (weeks before) or after the show, when he was starting to put on size again.

Chris I can't find Iabadman's post so I will quote yours. First yes this is a large amount of drugs in fact enough to grow very large or "maintain a large amount of muscle". Now what we don't know is if this pro used these specific drugs because he chose to or because he "had" to. I've trained King for shows before when he has not used at least two of the drugs mentioned in this thread. Things are a little different today. Tren and masteron and readily available like never before. Hell it's actually to the point where you actually have to make a decision as to where you want to buy your GH tren test etc. There is no magic formula, but there are certain staples that guys are using today and will continue to use.