Time to “up the dose” options

[Deleted member 226465]

Hi guys,

Pretty sure most of you are aware of my stats and goals etc

But nutshell
280lbs
5.11ft
Aspiring to be the best SHW bodybuilder I can be

I shall post my current cycle below and reasons for it

Sust: 500mg (the most I have been to is 750mg but my test came back about 207 and my estrogen was high so my coach said to lower it to 400 (i dropped to 500mg for easy dosing)

Mast: 600mg. Prior to this was 400mg but my estrogen was high so we upped the mast as not using any AI

EQ 600mg. Was Deca at the same dosage but my prolactin was high and coach didn’t want to use caber so switched to EQ. Only issues I seem prone to high hematocrit I am due a blood let and can do them whenever but I know EQ can be known to be a nightmare here.

My proposed adjustment was just to take the test to 1g and leave the rest the same but this may require an AI but also may not with the above mast and EQ dosages (I realise bloods but I’ve only just had them recently so basing this off those)

I have mentioned on here previously but again just for those that may be not aware my coach isn’t big on pushing the dosages. We’re of a similar size and he hasn’t coached anyone my size before (his words) so just to broaden my knowledge I’m asking on here for any help or pointers that I can then put forward to him

Before “get a new coach” we’re good friends and he genuinely puts in effort with me and I don’t just wanna bin that off because of one potential issue as maybe it’s less of an issue than I think

Any advice or personal experience welcome

Thank you in advance

 

[VakarianSK]

Get a new coach.... jk lol.

I am personally a huge fan of hgh and if you and your coach do not want to push doses higher and higher than hgh can be a good option because of it's synergystic effects with AAS. Basically just forcing growth through taking advantage of another path way. And the best part is that it has never been this affordable and we have some great sponsors on here as well.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

Get a new coach.... jk lol.

I am personally a huge fan of hgh and if you and your coach do not want to push doses higher and higher than hgh can be a good option because of it's synergystic effects with AAS. Basically just forcing growth through taking advantage of another path way. And the best part is that it has never been this affordable and we have some great sponsors on here as well.

My bad I should of included that I am
Running HGH at 7iu/day and insulin pre and post workout

 

[luki7788]

Get a new coach.... jk lol.

I am personally a huge fan of hgh and if you and your coach do not want to push doses higher and higher than hgh can be a good option because of it's synergystic effects with AAS. Basically just forcing growth through taking advantage of another path way. And the best part is that it has never been this affordable and we have some great sponsors on here as well.

best advice lol

seriously, I would completely change your cycle - throw out Masteron and max out the test + EQ (also add IA) and when you do, add 3 drugs - most likely NPP

 

[VakarianSK]

My bad I should of included that I am
Running HGH at 7iu/day and insulin pre and post workout

What does your bloodwork look like (lipids, kidney function, liver health, etc...)? If you are healthy and everything is in the green what is preventing you from trying to up the dose to maybe the 2g mark? As long as blood work and health is monitored you can slowly titrate up "safely" imo.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

best advice lol

seriously, I would completely change your cycle - throw out Masteron and max out the test + EQ (also add IA) and when you do, add 3 drugs - most likely NPP

Test, EQ, NPP is a solid choice

I understand the idea of mast to help with estrogen and the supposed synergistic effect it can have with other compounds but this does seem to be a new school approach and I’m not sure if it gives you the best “bang for your buck” cycle for true mass

 

[Deleted member 226465]

What does your bloodwork look like (lipids, kidney function, liver health, etc...)? If you are healthy and everything is in the green what is preventing you from trying to up the dose to maybe the 2g mark? As long as blood work and health is monitored you can slowly titrate up "safely" imo.

Everything is good (minus the estrogen, hematocrit and prolactin)

So hopefully nothing preventing me upping the dosage safely just deciding what to up or what overall cycle design to achieve it

 

[luki7788]

Test, EQ, NPP is a solid choice

I understand the idea of mast to help with estrogen and the supposed synergistic effect it can have with other compounds but this does seem to be a new school approach and I’m not sure if it gives you the best “bang for your buck” cycle for true mass

I say and do what works, not what someone thinks should work lol - that's a huge difference

 

[slesh]

best advice lol

seriously, I would completely change your cycle - throw out Masteron and max out the test + EQ (also add IA) and when you do, add 3 drugs - most likely NPP

This is what I was going to say. Was just having a similar conversation. I personally believe Mast should be saved for your cut/prep when you wanna keep E2 low and preserve as much tissue as possible when in a deficicit. You're trying to grow - EQ to me is a much better option.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Hi guys,

Pretty sure most of you are aware of my stats and goals etc

But nutshell
280lbs
5.11ft
Aspiring to be the best SHW bodybuilder I can be

I shall post my current cycle below and reasons for it

Sust: 500mg (the most I have been to is 750mg but my test came back about 207 and my estrogen was high so my coach said to lower it to 400 (i dropped to 500mg for easy dosing)

Mast: 600mg. Prior to this was 400mg but my estrogen was high so we upped the mast as not using any AI

EQ 600mg. Was Deca at the same dosage but my prolactin was high and coach didn’t want to use caber so switched to EQ. Only issues I seem prone to high hematocrit I am due a blood let and can do them whenever but I know EQ can be known to be a nightmare here.

My proposed adjustment was just to take the test to 1g and leave the rest the same but this may require an AI but also may not with the above mast and EQ dosages (I realise bloods but I’ve only just had them recently so basing this off those)

I have mentioned on here previously but again just for those that may be not aware my coach isn’t big on pushing the dosages. We’re of a similar size and he hasn’t coached anyone my size before (his words) so just to broaden my knowledge I’m asking on here for any help or pointers that I can then put forward to him

Before “get a new coach” we’re good friends and he genuinely puts in effort with me and I don’t just wanna bin that off because of one potential issue as maybe it’s less of an issue than I think

Any advice or personal experience welcome

Thank you in advance

I might have misinterpreted what you're saying here but from what I can see the biggest issue preventing you from doing the simplest and most obvious choice i.e, raising Test to 1g and beyond, is Ryan's hesitation at dealing with high estrogen.

I get it. Thats kinda the vibe in the UK at the moment. You've mentioned that before. I don't personally agree. I think elevated estrogen has it's own issues and needs dealing with to reap the benefits.

Prolactin will be an issue if you allow estrogen to run high. As well potential prostate issues, clotting and all sorts. So you may find you're fine with nandrolone as long as you're willing to control estrogen with an AI.

Test, Nandrolone and EQ.

Gotta be a combination of 2 or 3 of these with sensible use of an AI.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

I might have misinterpreted what you're saying here but from what I can see the biggest issue preventing you from doing the simplest and most obvious choice i.e, raising Test to 1g and beyond, is Ryan's hesitation at dealing with high estrogen.

I get it. Thats kinda the vibe in the UK at the moment. You've mentioned that before. I don't personally agree. I think elevated estrogen has it's own issues and needs dealing with to reap the benefits.

Prolactin will be an issue if you allow estrogen to run high. As well potential prostate issues, clotting and all sorts. So you may find you're fine with nandrolone as long as you're willing to control estrogen with an AI.

Test, Nandrolone and EQ.

Gotta be a combination of 2 or 3 of these with sensible use of an AI.

Very much so mate. For some reason the current thing across most UK coaches is to only use the max tolerable dose of test which seems to fall between 300-750mg and you would make the rest of your dosage up with mast or primo (mast seems to be taking primo’s popularity) then low dose npp (300mg max)

In regards to AI’s it’s frowned upon to be using them outside of prep (again not sure why)

Opinion on EQ is very varied MOST will say it’s a bad choice because of hematocrit but some slightly older school guys still like to use it (in the UK)

I personally thought if I upped the test to 1g I could potentially manage that with 12.5mg aromasin/day (very broad amount but at a guess from what I’ve read)

1g test
900mg EQ
300mg npp
Managed with an AI was my potential thoughts for a cycle change

Obviously would need to monitor hematocrit and have regular blood let’s potentially (2-3 times per year)

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Very much so mate. For some reason the current thing across most UK coaches is to only use the max tolerable dose of test which seems to fall between 300-750mg and you would make the rest of your dosage up with mast or primo (mast seems to be taking primo’s popularity) then low dose npp (300mg max)

In regards to AI’s it’s frowned upon to be using them outside of prep (again not sure why)

Opinion on EQ is very varied MOST will say it’s a bad choice because of hematocrit but some slightly older school guys still like to use it (in the UK)

I personally thought if I upped the test to 1g I could potentially manage that with 12.5mg aromasin/day (very broad amount but at a guess from what I’ve read)

1g test
900mg EQ
300mg npp
Managed with an AI was my potential thoughts for a cycle change

Obviously would need to monitor hematocrit and have regular blood let’s potentially (2-3 times per year)

I think this is a sound plan.

I know you didn't want to hear this but just as a nod to @luki7788 one of my buddies is about your size. He's been in a bit of a slump over the last few years. Still looks incredible but hasn't really put together a good run. Anyway he went and hired Justin Harris you know the carb cycling guy? Well he's been with Justin a year or so now. Biggest and best he's looked and he'll likely compete this year.

Just given him a kick up the arse and done a few things differently like healthy fats, carb cycling etc. He's been on mostly Test and EQ the last few years.

 

[bbxtreme]

Very much so mate. For some reason the current thing across most UK coaches is to only use the max tolerable dose of test which seems to fall between 300-750mg and you would make the rest of your dosage up with mast or primo (mast seems to be taking primo’s popularity) then low dose npp (300mg max)

In regards to AI’s it’s frowned upon to be using them outside of prep (again not sure why)

Opinion on EQ is very varied MOST will say it’s a bad choice because of hematocrit but some slightly older school guys still like to use it (in the UK)

I personally thought if I upped the test to 1g I could potentially manage that with 12.5mg aromasin/day (very broad amount but at a guess from what I’ve read)

1g test
900mg EQ
300mg npp
Managed with an AI was my potential thoughts for a cycle change

Obviously would need to monitor hematocrit and have regular blood let’s potentially (2-3 times per year)

So I am going to throw a curve ball in here to clear up misconceptions. Coaches feel free to correct me if you do it differently.

1. You should pick your coach based on who you best align with. Period. You have that done so I’m not going to tell you to get a new coach. What he’s doing is clearly working well.

2. I have NEVER had a single coach tell me “this is the cycle you have to do”. The only thing a coach does is “coach”. From Milos to AJ it’s been “this is my suggested cycle” but that has been based off of conversations of my usage over the last two years at that time, my bloodwork and what I feel works best for me.

Now this does not mean do not tell your coach what you’re doing. This is where many guys screw it up. Tell your coach the good, bad and the ugly. It’s a conversation though, not a dictatorship.

With that said, I agree with @luki7788. Off-season push the test and EQ as far as you can push it. I’d move to Test C instead of SUS as it’s a bit more forgiving IMO on sides. Once you’ve done that then you can add in NPP or if you’re really trying to push consider a minimal amount of tren. Key word minimal as this is the time to grow, not throw off bloodwork and vitals.

Either way, find what works for you, have a conversation with your coach and implement. You should be doing fasted weights daily and check ins weekly so you can easily dial in all factors.

Edit: Aromasin 12.5mg daily would be what I’d run with your proposed cycle.

 

[ChinaManGrowth]

These dosages are laughable at your size . I’m taking 3 grams plus insulin and growth and only weigh 220lbs at 5’6 plus

 

[Deleted member 226465]

So I am going to throw a curve ball in here to clear up misconceptions. Coaches feel free to correct me if you do it differently.

1. You should pick your coach based on who you best align with. Period. You have that done so I’m not going to tell you to get a new coach. What he’s doing is clearly working well.

2. I have NEVER had a single coach tell me “this is the cycle you have to do”. The only thing a coach does is “coach”. From Milos to AJ it’s been “this is my suggested cycle” but that has been based off of conversations of my usage over the last two years at that time, my bloodwork and what I feel works best for me.

Now this does not mean do not tell your coach what you’re doing. This is where many guys screw it up. Tell your coach the good, bad and the ugly. It’s a conversation though, not a dictatorship.

With that said, I agree with @luki7788. Off-season push the test and EQ as far as you can push it. I’d move to Test C instead of SUS as it’s a bit more forgiving IMO on sides. Once you’ve done that then you can add in NPP or if you’re really trying to push consider a minimal amount of tren. Key word minimal as this is the time to grow, not throw off bloodwork and vitals.

Either way, find what works for you, have a conversation with your coach and implement. You should be doing fasted weights daily and check ins weekly so you can easily dial in all factors.

Edit: Aromasin 12.5mg daily would be what I’d run with your proposed cycle.

Very good points raised!

When I initially decided I wanted to give bodybuilding a proper try (about 12 months ago) I did have a look at coaches a couple that stood out from memory were Justin Harris and bleu Taylor as they had some insane client transformations but I was worried because at the time I thought I had 0
Potential (I’m no freak but the possibility of turning pro one day may not be a fairytale) that I would just be wasting my time going with a high level coach so I went with someone who worked with your average every day people more so. And genuinely don’t have a bad word to say he’s totally transformed my physique so far.


I do think/hope he will be open to me saying “I want to do XYZ unless you have a better suggestion can you guide me through it” totally open to him having other suggestions but so far that’s just been high dosages of gear aren’t necessary and create a toxic physique as it’s the food and training that dictate your growth which up until a certain level and or with top tier genetics may be true but I also don’t believe I could add another 30-40lbs on my dosages (I could be wrong). However he does seem open to other opinions so we shall see. Again maybe he just hasn’t got the prior experience here.

I’ve never actually tried test C I used to
Use E but a few years back in the UK virtually all test E was giving awful pip so I just moved to sust.

Using the 2 compounds though I could go something like

Test: 1300mg
EQ: 900mg

That would yield about the same overall MG

I have ran tren quite a while back from memory I managed to run about 300mg then anymore caused bad acid reflux



I will be starting prep in about 5 months and my plan was to try and add as much size as I can within that timeframe whilst not gaining anymore bodyfat so some kind of recomp as much as I hate that term.
Whenever I mention this to Ryan he just says I don’t need to worry about size and just condition. Which I agree with but also I love the mass monster look and he’s said he’s not a fan and prefers more refined conditioned physiques so we do differ on opinion there

 

[Deleted member 226465]

These dosages are laughable at your size . I’m taking 3 grams plus insulin and growth and only weigh 220lbs at 5’6 plus

If that’s a comp weight at that height then that’s pretty damn big but if off-season then that sounds like quite a hefty dosage but if it’s working then that’s what counts I guess

 

[ChinaManGrowth]

If that’s a comp weight at that height then that’s pretty damn big but if off-season then that sounds like quite a hefty dosage but if it’s working then that’s what counts I guess

I don’t compete . This is the start of my bulk

 

[Deleted member 226465]

I don’t compete . This is the start of my bulk

I fed the troll didn’t I oops

 

[luki7788]

my last piece of advice because others have already written basically everything

change coach do the cutting phase do rebound and offseason with a new coach

 

[Hyperemia]

I fed the troll didn’t I oops

They get the best of us sometimes.