John Jewett - what he really thinks about "healthy bodybuilding approach"

[TeaMan]

This is true. I'd be very interested in hearing more about how those guys train...I think there was a thread about it here and I also searched Google...but wasn't much info. It seems like they just go in and destroy a body part? Do they log book and focus on progressive overload? Or more similar to how Milos trains?

Look how Stew trains, thats clarify everything. There’s a many ways to skin a cat, you just have to find what’s works for who and stick to it until it’s no loneger working. One is for sure > no metter how you train, putting in your best effort to every single workout 365d/y for 10+ years are the secret to make results.

 

[CorgisOnTren]

Interesting timing… haha

 

[control]

You should definitely count protein from all sources when you count your macros

 

[Elvia1023]

Yes, but there are not many PROS that working full time job (obv. there are some but few) so in the conversation we talk about serious hardcore bodybuilders, that basically train, eat, sleep and reapete that 365days a year over and over. In that scenario it's really hard get overtrain, lets take bodybuilders from oxygen, they are training twice a day, with as much volume and intens as they can and beyond, and still menage to get fck huge - but... Not on 250mg of test, an 500mg primo and thats the case - real dosages, real trainging, real protein and food intake for real monsters - the other ways are fine, but for the general public.

Exactly. Training content has really changed over the last 5 years and has become very "scientific" in certain circles. Then on the other side you have the likes of Branch Warren who just goes in and abuses his body but even for those guys there is usually a plan (albeit rough) involved. Like with most things a middleground is often optimal and you can obviously train intelligently. Although I really can't stand a lot of the science talk when it comes to training.

I know a lot of advanced guys and it's almost comical when I see some guys on here talk about training because none of them are like that. I am the same as well and I go in the gym with my workout pretty much planned out but anything goes. I will add in x or takeaway y and I work on instinct and listen to my body and just have fun with it. Sometimes what I see very advanced guys do is probably far from optimal but it works. You mentioned Oxygen and that's a great example. Those guys literally have so much equipment and they will do about 4 different chest presses in 1 workout. Failure sets on all of them. 2 different fly movements. 1 dip movement. About 4 tri-cep movements. Is it too much... sure... does it still work... yes.

Just brutal training with heavy weights but loads of volume. Some of these science guys would be shocked and would think overtraining and not intelligent programming but all of these guys are bigger and leaner and it's because of that mindset. Again sometimes a combination of approaches is best because you can go OTT but that no limits training is why these guys do get good results and it spreads over to all other areas of bodybuilding meaning they just do it and don't overthink things and just get on with it. They aren't worried they might get too fat in their offseasoin like so many on here they just eat. They don't overthink about drug ratios and they just get it in them and consistently.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

You should definitely count protein from all sources when you count your macros

And why is that…

 

[TeaMan]

Interesting timing… haha

Yea, that can't be coincidence . And also i don't know why he mantioning so many times packing on an orals... No one even mention it once and i kinda have a feeling he assume im that guy but maybe it's just me feeling like that, dunno.

 

[TeaMan]

I know a lot of advanced guys and it's almost comical when I see some guys on here talk about training because none of them are like that. I am the same as well and I go in the gym with my workout pretty much planned out but anything goes. I will add in x or takeaway y and I work on instinct and listen to my body and just have fun with it. Sometimes what I see very advanced guys do is probably far from optimal but it works. You mentioned Oxygen and that's a great example. Those guys literally have so much equipment and they will do about 4 different chest presses in 1 workout. Failure sets on all of them. 2 different fly movements. 1 dip movement. About 4 tri-cep movements. Is it too much... sure... does it still work... yes.

If it's working it's probably just a right amount for them, not too much. This is the one thing that people are missleading themselves on - if somethings works it's probably right for that person no metter how hard or easy it is. For example there are no such a thing as big dosages - it's just for whom, as 2g for 150lbs its too much probably, but for 250lbs it may be too little. So for the oxygen gusys it's probably not too much, it's just suit for them becouse they are basicaly have the best health care in the world, eat, sleep, and recover perfectly, have no stresses etc. It probably not gonna works for someone who has 3 kids, shift job and a wife that are driving him crazy xD - but that's the difference, there are no other rulez in bodybuilding then your OWN body feedback - the amount of work we need is mostly dependend on how well you can recover, as well as how much gear or food you can or need intake - its all relevant to the person needs. Abviosly i know that you know that, i just wanna to pinpoint that for those who don't as there are still topics like "how many sets should i do per week" etc. And that question is just impossible to answer different then - try and you find out yourself.

 

[qbkilla]

If it's working it's probably just a right amount for them, not too much. This is the one thing that people are missleading themselves on - if somethings works it's probably right for that person no metter how hard or easy it is. For example there are no such a thing as big dosages - it's just for whom, as 2g for 150lbs its too much probably, but for 250lbs it may be too little. So for the oxygen gusys it's probably not too much, it's just suit for them becouse they are basicaly have the best health care in the world, eat, sleep, and recover perfectly, have no stresses etc. It probably not gonna works for someone who has 3 kids, shift job and a wife that are driving him crazy xD - but that's the difference, there are no other rulez in bodybuilding then your OWN body feedback - the amount of work we need is mostly dependend on how well you can recover, as well as how much gear or food you can or need intake - its all relevant to the person needs. Abviosly i know that you know that, i just wanna to pinpoint that for those who don't as there are still topics like "how many sets should i do per week" etc. And that question is just impossible to answer different then - try and you find out yourself.

This..and what elvia said ... probably the top thing I learned on this board last year. I think Mike Israetel types do a great disservice with all these volume landmarks...4 or 5 sets? Ramp up volume...add a set a week... maximum adaptive volume...lol

Now I go in and just train... structure a plan but don't worry about the minutia. The reverse pec deck is being hogged? In the past I'd wait do abs until it was empty...I had to use that machine and make sure I beat last week's reps or a workout was wasted...now I just grab DB I can do bent over flyers and hit my rear then move into side.

I like watching dlb videos...she doesn't worry about how many sets is a drop set or rest pause...one video hops on the side delt machine and just picks the number 40...she will do 40 reps...get some lighter ones.... then move the pin some harder...then heavier...then dropset it until 40 are complete...at pretty much failure.

 

[qbkilla]

3:06. The science guys would be horrified.

 

[FK86]

If it's working it's probably just a right amount for them, not too much. This is the one thing that people are missleading themselves on - if somethings works it's probably right for that person no metter how hard or easy it is.

One of my favourite responses Cutler gives whenever anyone asks him about his training volume, if he tried high-intensity etc is

"What I was doing was working. Why would I change it?"

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Exactly. Training content has really changed over the last 5 years and has become very "scientific" in certain circles. Then on the other side you have the likes of Branch Warren who just goes in and abuses his body but even for those guys there is usually a plan (albeit rough) involved. Like with most things a middleground is often optimal and you can obviously train intelligently. Although I really can't stand a lot of the science talk when it comes to training.

I know a lot of advanced guys and it's almost comical when I see some guys on here talk about training because none of them are like that. I am the same as well and I go in the gym with my workout pretty much planned out but anything goes. I will add in x or takeaway y and I work on instinct and listen to my body and just have fun with it. Sometimes what I see very advanced guys do is probably far from optimal but it works. You mentioned Oxygen and that's a great example. Those guys literally have so much equipment and they will do about 4 different chest presses in 1 workout. Failure sets on all of them. 2 different fly movements. 1 dip movement. About 4 tri-cep movements. Is it too much... sure... does it still work... yes.

Just brutal training with heavy weights but loads of volume. Some of these science guys would be shocked and would think overtraining and not intelligent programming but all of these guys are bigger and leaner and it's because of that mindset. Again sometimes a combination of approaches is best because you can go OTT but that no limits training is why these guys do get good results and it spreads over to all other areas of bodybuilding meaning they just do it and don't overthink things and just get on with it. They aren't worried they might get too fat in their offseasoin like so many on here they just eat. They don't overthink about drug ratios and they just get it in them and consistently.

Why push back on trying to understand why stuff works?

There is a point where people step over dollars to pick up dimes, they get paralysis by analysis, and overly nuance… but where’s the harm?

The only legitimate reason for resisting science is emotional attachment to the old way.

The problem that muddies the water is that all exercise works as long as you don’t get injured, and people with good genetics will make faster progress training inefficiently compared to people with bad genetics playing all their cards right.

Also, scientific bodybuilding is not only in the hands of the guys on YouTube. The ideas expressed by those guys are individual interpretations of their findings (coupled with biases).

Just because some jacked up ghetto dude can just try hard and grow 20” arms doesn’t mean a better method wouldn’t actually be better.

The term science in bodybuilding has been hijacked by a handful of guys and abused by those who refuse to evolved from the “it works for me bro” method.

 

[TeaMan]

One of my favourite responses Cutler gives whenever anyone asks him about his training volume, if he tried high-intensity etc is

"What I was doing was working. Why would I change it?"

Yep this is excecly what i preach right now when it comes to training. In the past i was bias, i believed in "this is the right way" as person x and y grew very well on it. This is totally bulshit when it comes to advanced guys (it matter when it comes to newbies as they're all should just progressive overload heavy basic lifts and not worried about any stupid accesories ). Righ now with my guys if someone comes to me for coaching im not changeing everything 180 degrees unless it's not working (and most of the times it's not working if they works they were not even bother to come to me for a help), if somones is advanced, know what he do at the gym, knows how to push himselfs, you as a coach in front of your computer are not in the position to tell him "thats wrong, thats right" for most parts. Make them do what they do best and just manipulate how they looks by proper excercise selection, split routine during the week, diet and peds. Let's them do the rest > executing the plan as hard as they can

 

[TeaMan]

Why push back on trying to understand why stuff works?

There is a point where people step over dollars to pick up dimes, they get paralysis by analysis, and overly nuance… but where’s the harm?

The only legitimate reason for resisting science is emotional attachment to the old way.

The problem that muddies the water is that all exercise works as long as you don’t get injured, and people with good genetics will make faster progress training inefficiently compared to people with bad genetics playing all their cards right.

Also, scientific bodybuilding is not only in the hands of the guys on YouTube. The ideas expressed by those guys are individual interpretations of their findings (coupled with biases).

Just because some jacked up ghetto dude can just try hard and grow 20” arms doesn’t mean a better method wouldn’t actually be better.

The term science in bodybuilding has been hijacked by a handful of guys and abused by those who refuse to evolved from the “it works for me bro” method.

We are loosing the point, no one says the science is bad. We all just sayin that interpretation of it nowadays is bad, and people just try to find a new way to cover up they lack of effort and work ethic.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

We are loosing the point, no one says the science is bad. We all just sayin that interpretation of it nowadays is bad, and people just try to find a new way to cover up they lack of effort and work ethic.

We need to better articulate how that message is delivered if that’s the meaning.

The danger comes when dumb guys with good genetics think they can have strong opinions because “science is bullshit”. There’s a much MUCH higher number of those guys in the sport that guys too smart for their own good. People hire a coach and listen to him like he’s a religious figure over here in the states.

I tell all of my clients “Call me on anything you perceive to be bullshit or made up. If I can’t explain why, I don’t deserve to tell you what to do.”

After seeing 20 years of the sport, I agree with most of what John Jewitt preaches. Everything? Probably not, but you’ll never agree 100% with anyone.

 

[control]

And why is that…

Because it's protein. It has calories and it isn't carbohydrate, fat, or alcohol. Rice isn't a complete protein because it lacks lysine, but your body can still use all it's other amino acids (it has all the branched chain amino acids). You're going to get the lysine somewhere else.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Because it's protein. It has calories and it isn't carbohydrate, fat, or alcohol. Rice isn't a complete protein because it lacks lysine, but your body can still use all it's other amino acids (it has all the branched chain amino acids). You're going to get the lysine somewhere else.

That’s not an argument for counting all your protein. You’re just pointing out calories.

As long as you’re consistent in exactly what and how u track, it doesn’t matter what you do.

 

[control]

That’s not an argument for counting all your protein. You’re just pointing out calories.

As long as you’re consistent in exactly what and how u track, it doesn’t matter what you do.

I'm a big believer in high protein, and I never worry about getting too much protein. I'm just saying that protein from all sources is protein, and it's more accurate to count that protein than to not count it. It isn't worthless because it's lacking an essential amino acid, which is what some people seem to think.

 

[TeaMan]

I'm a big believer in high protein, and I never worry about getting too much protein. I'm just saying that protein from all sources is protein, and it's more accurate to count that protein than to not count it. It isn't worthless because it's lacking an essential amino acid, which is what some people seem to think.

No one ever claims different. But it’s just for a convenient.

We need to better articulate how that message is delivered if that’s the meaning.

The danger comes when dumb guys with good genetics think they can have strong opinions because “science is bullshit”. There’s a much MUCH higher number of those guys in the sport that guys too smart for their own good. People hire a coach and listen to him like he’s a religious figure over here in the states.

I tell all of my clients “Call me on anything you perceive to be bullshit or made up. If I can’t explain why, I don’t deserve to tell you what to do.”

After seeing 20 years of the sport, I agree with most of what John Jewitt preaches. Everything? Probably not, but you’ll never agree 100% with anyone.

Like I said I respect all opinions, doesn’t mean I agree with it. Everyone is free to use and believe whatever they want and I believe that’s is just how it supposed to be . I just see the value of me challenging John own opinion, as he clearly has no real answer other then what he believes in, and that’s fine too, I’m also don’t know why I believe in certain methods other then I just do sometimes and as long as me and my clients and content with the results it provides i also think it’s fine .

 

[qbkilla]

Why push back on trying to understand why stuff works?

There is a point where people step over dollars to pick up dimes, they get paralysis by analysis, and overly nuance… but where’s the harm?

The only legitimate reason for resisting science is emotional attachment to the old way.

The problem that muddies the water is that all exercise works as long as you don’t get injured, and people with good genetics will make faster progress training inefficiently compared to people with bad genetics playing all their cards right.

Also, scientific bodybuilding is not only in the hands of the guys on YouTube. The ideas expressed by those guys are individual interpretations of their findings (coupled with biases).

Just because some jacked up ghetto dude can just try hard and grow 20” arms doesn’t mean a better method wouldn’t actually be better.

The term science in bodybuilding has been hijacked by a handful of guys and abused by those who refuse to evolved from the “it works for me bro” method.

I agree the research is useful, but I think all the information can...like you said....cause paralysis by analysis. I can see scenarios where people start to learn more with good intentions to grow better but end of worse due to their research..I've been guilty myself

Say for example someone loves doing a bro split.... going to the gym and destroying 1 part. They begin reading how increased frequency is better. They then switch to full body 3x a week and hate it...just hate it....and aren't as motivated and don't realize their not training as intense...but stick to a routine they aren't motivated by because scientific on paper it's better

Ot say a dude reads about long rest intervals and higher volume produces more growth... He changes what he does and his workouts are a lot longer. Say he works 50 hours a week now he's cutting into his sleep with the extra gym time.

I personally love doing drop sets, giant sets, buf some of these guys say they aren't good...the stimulus to fatigue ratio

I definitely agree with you but can see how investing too much in the science vs just training hard and destroying the target muscle can be a bad idea in certain cases. I think borge fergeli a popular guy showed a graphic saying only 2 sets for biceps a week.more is a waste..he had rational evidence wise...but I think people doing 2 sets or so for biceps would be a bad choice.

 

[Reno911]

3:06. The science guys would be horrified.

Not to side track this thread (good thread BTW!!) but either DLB is getting over a cold, started smoking darts, or her Anavar was not as it was labeled.

Her voice certainly has deepened. Weird considering she's natural.