How's this short cycle sound?

[rizzo72]

Background info:
21, 5"8, 198 lbs, roughly 14-15% bodyfat, no cycle experience, training legitimately for 4 years

Goals:
increase strength (main), shed some bodyfat, increase size not a priority (more of the PL type), roughly maintain weight (a few extra pounds is fine)

From what I've researched I believe shorter cycles may be best for me as I am constantly in/out of sporting seasons and my schedule isn't flexible enough for 12 weekers + PCT.

Proposed Cycle:
Weeks 1-6 Prop @ 75mg ED
1-4 DBol @ 40mg ED
1-9 L-Dex @ .25mg ED
1-9 Tribulus @ 4g ED

PCT (3 day's after last prop injection- for 3 weeks):
Clomid 1-11 @ 100, 12-21 @ 50
Nolva 1-11 @40, 12-21 @ 20

Support:
Weeks 1-9
Hawthorne Berry Extract
No-Flush Niacin
Milk Thistle Extract

END OF QUESTION. THE REST IS ONLY MORE INFO ON ME IF YOU ARE INTERESTED



More Background Info if Interested:
I do not compete in BB, but may decide to give a PL bench meet a try. I no longer do very heavy squats/deadlifts for a few reasons. One: the sport that I compete in requires me to be somewhat lean, quick, explosive, flexible, etc., and I can't be these things when training heavy squats/DL during the season. The other reason is that I naturally have pretty big legs, and I will be in a profession that requires me to wear a suit everyday to work and I have a tough time fitting into pants now so I really don't want the legs to get any bigger.

My routine currently consists of benching 2x a week (one heavy, one lighter and more concentrated on close-grip / triceps). I also have a back/biceps day. These are my 3 main BB/PL days, but I also do things on other days both for my sport and also for health. Once a week I do light leg circuit training consisting of squats/squat jumps/lunges/scissor kicks, etc. with a 35# weight, usually 4 sets of 20 reps on each exercise with no breaks. I also do my core training on this day. On another day I perform all of my cardio, consisting of a 2-mile run, short sprints, plyometrics, quick feet drills, etc.

Diet: I use fitday.com to organize all of my meals. On the off-season I'm usually eating roughly 3000-3200 calories (300g protein, 300g carbs, 80g fat) all from good sources. Carbs are mostly pre and post-workout. I plan on priming for a few weeks before going on cycle though. Unfortunately its tough to have a strict diet during the season but I'm going to focus on cleaning it up as it approaches an end.

Unfortunately it is tough to make gains during the season without jeopardizing my play. Between the late practices and the roadtrips combined with college/work it's tough to stay focused on diet and training. I benched 315 @195 before the season started, but now I'm benching around 300ish. I'm looking to get back to 315 before going on the gear.

 

[Dad]

I like the short-acting compounds - always a good choice with short cycles.

I do think the dosages are high for a first-ever cycle. Yuo're proposing over 800 mg per week total. Why not try about 1/2 that much for this first time, and see what your gains are, what sides you experience and to what degree.

Write down everything about your training and diet, and make notes about how you feel and what you experience.

I'd actually start the Nolvadex your second week of the cycle, and stay on for a good 4 weeks after yuor last shot.

The milk thistle and all that probably doesn't matter, so if money is any issue, you can drop all that without worry.

 

[rizzo72]

I like the short-acting compounds - always a good choice with short cycles.

I do think the dosages are high for a first-ever cycle. Yuo're proposing over 800 mg per week total. Why not try about 1/2 that much for this first time, and see what your gains are, what sides you experience and to what degree.

Write down everything about your training and diet, and make notes about how you feel and what you experience.

I'd actually start the Nolvadex your second week of the cycle, and stay on for a good 4 weeks after yuor last shot.

The milk thistle and all that probably doesn't matter, so if money is any issue, you can drop all that without worry.

Thanks for the input. I was initially planning on doing 50mg Prop ED and 30mg DBol ED but it seemed through searching most people recommended a higher dose for each in a shorter cycle. When using nolva during cycle it should be about 10mg ED? This is along with L-dex? I'll extend the nolva to 4 weeks of PCT, keep the standard clomid therapy at 3 weeks unless otherwise encouraged.

Also, I have done a "cycle" of M1T at 10mg ED for three weeks so I have the chloresterol/blood pressure/liver protection already on hand so I'll keep that in. So, with this "cycle" under my belt should I still stick with the lowered doses (50 Prop/30 DBol) or something else?

 

[Zuke]

Yo bro, that Dbol dose is way too high. You will gain just as much of 25mg/day and the prop...drop it to 50mg/day. Thats 525mg total. Not too shabby for a first cycle. BTW no Nolvadex!! Only if you are gyno prone. It hinders gains dramatically.

 

[Dad]

By what mechanism does a selective estrogen receptor modulator, which is a competitive blocker at estrogen receptors hinder gains?

This has never been my experience, has never been explained in any way I know of other than "gym lore," and the problems of excess estrogen from aromatization far outwiegh concerns about hindering gains.

Take the nolvadex.

 

[Zuke]

Exactly, if you are prone to gyno take it. If you are not don't. Don't take it just for the sake of taking it.

 

[km2000]

I think the nolva would not mess with any gains, aromatise inhibitors will IMO.. 10-20 mg of nolva should do.. like others said if you are prone to estrogen side(which you probably dont know yet) then aromisin should be kept on hand.. letro and adex mess with the lipids a lot more than aromasin..

 

[rizzo72]

Not sure if I am prone to gyno or not. I didn't have any sides from M1T whatsoever, not even any water retention. I gained 10-15lbs on my bench but I didn't gain any weight (no problem with that).

So someone like myself would be best with 50mg Prop ED and 30mg DBol ED? (they are 10mg tabs). At this rate, for the last two weeks I would only be getting 350mg of test a week. Is this level appropriate for gains?

I've seen most of the people on boards running nolva throughout the cycle, just seems like cheap insurance.

As far as the letro, I thought it was mainly to keep the water weight down. And then the serm's were used to prohibit the estrogen that is now in your system from the increased test to bind. Is this incorrect?

 

[rizzo72]

It seems like a lot of beginners are recommended 500mg Test Enanthate a week along with 30mg DBol. Are these numbers not combined to make 710mg a week because enanthate is a long ester?

What is the benefit of running both the test prop and the dbol to 50/30 ED (making 560mg of test a week) compared to running strictly prop at 500mg a week?