Exciting! GRF1-29/GHRP-2 serum GH test!

[alpha6164]

Most would take CJC DAC w/a GHRP so they would still get spike along with a constant flow (bleed) of GH with the CJC. Are you familiar with Russianstar, Alpha? He's a phD that **broken link removed**. Anyways, hope this helps. Sorry if it's too off-topic. I can't wait for your follow-up test(s)!

I am not familiar with russianstar and just read that link. Although it may initially make sense. The bottom line is that constantly driving the cells to release GH 24/7 is not a great option. If it was we would be doing it naturally. It is different than when we inject GH synthetically because we are not forcing or overdriving the cells in pituitary to release anything.


Dat explains it very well here :

"You do not want to use CJC-1295. You want to use Modified GRF(1-29).
Why? (Partial Explanation)
"Cell-to-cell communication is also likely to reflect the density and proximity of adjacent cells as GH responsiveness (but not sensitivity) to GHRH is enhanced at higher densities and basal GH release is greatest at low densities."

"Cell-to-cell contact may therefore affect the cellular integrity of somatotrophs because GH synthesis or secretory granule storage may be better maintained in high density cell concentration then in low-density concentrations." - Growth Hormone, Stephen Harvey
What happens is cells in the pituitary communicate. They self organize and create a firing network for coordinated growth hormone release. This communication creates a high density of GH releasing cells. They are in close proximity through their communicatory network. The cells have specific spatial relationships that may be modulated by peripheral endocrines. These include sex steroids, thyroid hormones, glucorticoids and even the pancreatic and gut hormones. Their spatial relationship is also effected by physiological state such as nutrient status, age and pregnancy.

As a quick example, corticotroph, thyrotrophs and folliculostellate cells are in close proximity to somatotrophs and communicate with them through gap junctions (almost like just reaching out and touching signaling). They have the potential to effect and be effected by their neighbors.

What happens when you have GHRH always around is you force these somatotrophs to release GH because they are sensitive to the GHRH binding to them and effecting release. By constantly occupying you are preventing them from coordinating with surrounding cell populations. You force these cells to act as low density subpopulations. Basal GH release is greatest when you can disperse the spatial relationship between somatotrophs and that is what an always on GHRH will do.

CJC-1295 as an always on GHRH will force upon somatotrophs loner behavior with a single constant chore. This reduces GH responsiveness as this only occurs when somatotrophs can communicate, self organize and maintain social relationships with the surrounding community. These types of social somatotrophs are better able to make and store GH then the loner cells.

So CJC-1295 seems to disperse somatotrophs and enslave them getting less from them then if it had just let them congregate in towns and cities.

Aging has an effect on the vitality of city centers as well and as we age these somatotroph population centers become less vigorous. By using a more physiological GHRH such as modified GRF(1-29) together with a modulator GHRP-2 we revitalize that inner city and allow our cells to be more social and thus more productive. If instead we choose to use CJC-1295 we not only fail to remedy the problem associated with age , but we may end up exacerbating it.

I conjecture that it also makes them better neighbors to corticotroph, thyrotrophs and folliculostellate cells as well."

 

[alpha6164]

I seriously doubt 100/100 will have results like that !!

IF people are doing 100/100 three times a day, then that's like 12 15ius of GH ! They should blow up in no seconds lol

That is my feeling. I definitely did not get results anywhere close to 5iu of GH daily when i used 100/100 2x-3x daily. There is definitely some merit now in the folks using "boom dosing" with Ipramorelin 1mg once or twice a day

 

[718si]

I don't think you can compare a 12 from ghrp/ghrh to a 12 from exogenous HGH, as although the peak value may be the same, the total time above normal is significantly shorter with peptides. With the significantly shorter duration of elevated levels, it would be a pretty safe assumption that both the anabolic and fat burning effects would be significantly smaller relative to achieving the same peak with HGH.

I'm pulling #'s from thin air at this point, but perhaps a 12 with peptides is equivalent to 1 or 2 iu's of exogenous HGH where a 12 with HGH might be 7-10 iu's.

Because of the different timeframe that the 2 are effective at, I think a protocol of stacking both makes a lot of sense for people using lower amounts of HGH... Say maybe those running 5iu's/day and under. Administration of peptides 2-3 times/day could easily push the net effects of the 5iu's to perhaps 8-10iu's.

If running higher doses of HGH, it may not make as much of a difference... Not sure if you would notice the difference between 10iu's and 13iu's, but I don't think it would hurt either.

 

[s39will]

great post

thx alpha for putting time and resources into this and sharing with us
confirms some things about peps
really makes for alot of wonder about saturation dose and if its the same for all types of peps??
looking foward to watching this research unfold

 

[alpha6164]

I don't think you can compare a 12 from ghrp/ghrh to a 12 from exogenous HGH, as although the peak value may be the same, the total time above normal is significantly shorter with peptides. With the significantly shorter duration of elevated levels, it would be a pretty safe assumption that both the anabolic and fat burning effects would be significantly smaller relative to achieving the same peak with HGH.

I'm pulling #'s from thin air at this point, but perhaps a 12 with peptides is equivalent to 1 or 2 iu's of exogenous HGH if where a 12 with HGH might be 7-10 iu's.

Because of the different timeframe that the 2 are effective at, I think a protocol of stacking both makes a lot of sense for people using lower amounts of HGH... Say maybe those running 5iu's/day and under. Administration of peptides 2-3 times/day could easily push the net effects of the 5iu's to perhaps 8-10iu's.

If running higher doses of HGH, it may not make as much of a difference... Not sure if you would notice the difference between 10iu's and 13iu's, but I don't think it would hurt either.

Well you are right in the theory. But timing and estimation maybe a little off. Think of it this way. Synthetic GH from time injected really doesnt start to rise until 1.5-2hours and peaks at 4 hours and by hour 8 it is below 5.0 usually. So you have about 6 hours of net time where your GH is elevated. With your own peptide release it peaks at 30min and is out within 2.5 hours. So you get about a net 2 hours of GH in the system. So it seems like it would be a 1/3 of the time compared to synthetic GH.

So if 12.8 is 6-8iu of GH then it is good for approx 2 iu of GH. If given three times a day, it is a very sufficient dose and you dont have to worry about whose GH is bunk or not and also worry about antibody formation which is a real major issue. Cause at the end of the day nothing works better than your own GH


Another thing i will test is to do exact same protocol but test at 3 hours to see what level we get at that point. This can give us two points to see how long it is active in the system.

 

[mdts]

I wish I had a easy way to do testing or had the money to pay for testing more often cause I would have tested GH levels on every Gh releaser out right now. But sadly I am a poor college student and just get by on affording my food first then extra supps.
Currently I am using the cjc with Dac and loving the results wish I knew what levels I was putting out. I also spike it with ghrp-6 and Imp 3 times at 200-300mcg each day.

 

[raw33man]

^ doing that dose 3 times a day is going to get very pricy

We just have to wait until you are done with your experiments, because there are a lot of broscience about peptides.

lets see if it stays in your sysmtem for a longer time like you said

 

[Akamai]

I don't think you can compare a 12 from ghrp/ghrh to a 12 from exogenous HGH, as although the peak value may be the same, the total time above normal is significantly shorter with peptides. With the significantly shorter duration of elevated levels, it would be a pretty safe assumption that both the anabolic and fat burning effects would be significantly smaller relative to achieving the same peak with HGH.

I'm pulling #'s from thin air at this point, but perhaps a 12 with peptides is equivalent to 1 or 2 iu's of exogenous HGH where a 12 with HGH might be 7-10 iu's.

Because of the different timeframe that the 2 are effective at, I think a protocol of stacking both makes a lot of sense for people using lower amounts of HGH... Say maybe those running 5iu's/day and under. Administration of peptides 2-3 times/day could easily push the net effects of the 5iu's to perhaps 8-10iu's.

If running higher doses of HGH, it may not make as much of a difference... Not sure if you would notice the difference between 10iu's and 13iu's, but I don't think it would hurt either.

Yup Pulsing it.

Ak

 

[raw33man]

so what ghr pep stays in your system the longest ?

Also, I think Ipam and CJC would be the best combo for boom dosing as GHRP 2 and 6 cause prolactin issues... or wait, is that another broscience ?

 

[knucklehed]

Thanks Alpha, Nice contribution.

 

[alpha6164]

so what ghr pep stays in your system the longest ?

Also, I think Ipam and CJC would be the best combo for boom dosing as GHRP 2 and 6 cause prolactin issues... or wait, is that another broscience ?

It is very important to make clear distinction of GHRH which includes Sermorelin (useless), CJC 1295 with DAC and Mod GRF1-29 (which does not have DAC) and tesamorelin. Then you have GHRP which are GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Ipamorelin and Hexarelin.

Definitely CJC1295 with DAC is the longest acting, followed by tesamorelin. Mod GRF1-29 causes pulsatile release. I am not aware of the half life of the GHRPs. But you are definitely correct that Ipamorelin does not cause spike in prolactin and cortisol which are significant. GHPR6/2 definitely do. I agree that if Ipamorelin gives same results in combo with GRF1-29 that it would be best combo because it also does not give the hunger side effects.

As i mentioned i would not want to inject 250mcg of GHRP-2 three times a day. I will be 250lb of lard in 8 weeks. I literally ate everything in site yesterday morning lol.

 

[raw33man]

So why is GH bleed bad for you ?

Seems like CJC DAC is the best choice out there mixed with Ipam at 1mg

What if you cycle CJC DAC ? 12 weeks on, 12 weeks off

 

[alpha6164]

So why is GH bleed bad for you ?

Seems like CJC DAC is the best choice out there mixed with Ipam at 1mg

What if you cycle CJC DAC ? 12 weeks on, 12 weeks off

Look at the first post on top of this page when i replied to Bionic. It has a nice excerpt from Dat and reasoning behind it.

 

[BroncoJunkie]

so what ghr pep stays in your system the longest ?

Also, I think Ipam and CJC would be the best combo for boom dosing as GHRP 2 and 6 cause prolactin issues... or wait, is that another broscience ?

After my own research I had to stop using Mod/Ghrp-2 at 100/100 due to anxiety and headaches. Have had zero issues with Boom Dosing Mod/Ipam at 100/500

 

[johnjuanb1]

Very cool thread, alpha...excellent results. Thank you for your research.

 

[osiris]

Can you prove that you wont get the same results using 100mcg? No!

I am more interested in what 100mcg can do than 500mcg - I am sure most people would agree.

Gosh you are an angry fella. I am interested in achieving supraphysiological levels so I am more interested in 500 & 1000 than 100. I know anti aging dosages.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

 

[osiris]

Well in continued effor to help as much as i can on this board i decided to do some serum tesing of GH levels post peptide administration. We have seen quite a bit on synthetic GH and there is a lot of speculation of how much peptide is equivalent to how many IUs of GH etc but no testing as far as i know has been done on this board at least to see how different combo of pepetides affect serum GH levels. Now this protocol is different than injectable GH because you definitely need to be fasting. Having carbs/fats within a 2hour time causes somatostatin to prevent or markedly reduce release of GH from the pituitary. Also, the timins is different. WHen you inject peptides most studies or research shows that serum GH peaks at 30-40min mark. This is because you are not waiting for the synthetic GH to spread from injection site evenly throughout the blood. Within minutues of pituitary receiving the signal from peptides it does pretty much dump the GH immediately into blood stream so testing time is different.

Some of this was also because of the Egrifta (tesamorelin) approval by FDA and the crazy high dosage of single compound they used (2mg daily) to achieve results. We know that single use of a GHRH without the use of a GHRP at the same time does not release nearly as much GH as a combo does hence why they had to use such as high dosage to get meaninful results. Even in aftermarket prices using 2mg daily of tesamorelin makes it more expensive than GH from one of our reputable sponsors such as Mexi or TP.

This test was NOT do determine which brand works or does not and I do not want to get in to that at this time. This was more as an investigation to see if we can see a marked GH serum rise with peptide administration that we can put our finger on. I am sure at some point memebers will start to test different brands/dosages and combinations and post them accordingly but this is not the purpose of this test so please do ask for source of peptide.

To make sure everyone is clear i have been off GH for 5 weeks now. I like to run GH for 3-4months and off approx 1 month. I am only on TRT dosage of testosterone along with folli and Myo HMP. I am not on any other hormones of any kinds and not taking any AIs. So this is how the test went:

1) Yesteday fasting since 11pm the night before
2) Inject 500mcg of Mod GRF1-29 and 250mcg of GHRP-2 SubQ
3) Draw serum GH exactly 40min after injection

I know traditionally most people use the 100mcg/100mcg method but i somehow dont buy into 100mcg being the max dose and maxing out the receptor theory. Hence why tesamorelin worked a hell of a lot better at 2mg than it does at quarter of a dose. And so everyone is clear GHRH is a 44 amino acid chain. We know that the last 15 amino acids are completely useless. This is why the last 15 amino acids were cleaved and we came up with Sermorelin. Of course sermorelin was too short acting so different companies did different amino acid substitutions to make the half life longer. In order for Merck to make their product branded and make money they added the 15 amino acid chain and added a hexonyl group to make it last 8 hours and bam money in pocket.

So i used a pretty high dose but still significantly less than 2mg of any peptide to see what we get. I am sure in the future i can use less or more to see if my response changes. To make a long story short i was quite shocked and pleased with the results. My serum GH came at 12.8!

That is pretty awesome. To keep things in check in the recent Mexi Blacktop test testers were injecting 10iu of GH and their levels were 16-21 amongst the tests i have seen so far. So to get a level of 12.8 with just 750mcg of total peptides this is more equivalent to 4-5iu of GH at least. The best part is that this is your own GH so there are no antibody formation. There are many questions that stil remain such as:

1) Would i get similar results using less dosage such as 100/100mg? I dont know but i will try that at some point
2) Would i get even higher results if i used 1mg of GRF1-29 with 500mcg of GHRP-2. I do have to add that at the 250mcg of GHRP-2, i ate everything in my kitchen after the blood draw lol
3) Because of the hunger side effect of GHRP-2, i would next like to try a combo of GRF1-29/Ipamorelin to see what king of results i get.


But no matter what i am super excited to get this level of GH rise with compounds that are pretty inexpensive and possibly even safer

Glad you are back btw

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

 

[teewoods]

Slow down soldier...

What do you mean "NO" You dont even make sense. I never said you wont get the same result if you use a lower dose.

You were the one who made the remark "I know traditionally most people use the 100mcg/100mcg method but i somehow dont buy into 100mcg being the max dose and maxing out the receptor theory"

'No' means that 500mcg might be overkill and a waster of money until proven otherwise.

Of course it can be proven one way or the other. Inject 100/100 and repeat test if i get much lower result then YES i can prove that lower dosage wont give same results.

Yes that is true and what I implied. But until the test for 100mg is done you cant make statement to suggest 100mcg is not max dose. And also you have to bear in mind most people take it 100 x 3. Considering you are taking 500mcg Mod grf and 250mcg GHRP-2, I would sure hope it gives me almost 4 times the igf readings of a 100mcgx100mcg dose

And if the lower dosage gives same same rise in serum GH the whoopdy fucking doo great.

This is not to call you out but more about what is the most cost effective method is.

I have seen a good number of studies on Mod Grf and 100mcg being the max saturation dose. Even doses as low as 40mcg for Mod Grf seemed sufficient. All I did was challenged the above quote it like any reasonable broke ass person would. Not all of us have deep pockets like you and can afford 500mcg per shot without even wanting to know the real facts.

But I have to give you credit for saying you would do the 100mcg x 100mcg test.

 

[teewoods]

Then why don't you test it yourself

Another positive response left on a peptide thread, compliments of Mr. Woods.

I went a step further I tested one of the board sponsors Mod GRF and Ipam.
It is worth knowing if we are buying good quality stuff or not.

 

[discohornet]

and also worry about antibody formation which is a real major issue.

I've looked for a while to try and find info on this subject. Can you point me in the right direction?