I know... this has been beaten to death.. but

buselmo · Oct 22, 2007

First, let's talk about GH

I have tried it many times, in many different ways... but last august, before i went on my vacation, i got off all the gear i was on for 2 weeks, then i injected 24 ius of GH (8 iu three times that day) with 10 ius of slin with every shot (hum-R)... I traveled with my wife the day after that... on the fourth day, i blew up... my back got as wide as hell, and my triceps and calves popped out like never before... this was the first time i went high dose on GH with slin... i was like that for 15 days, then i started shrinking. what's my point? well, to me, after a year of experimenting with that shit, i feel that GH is worthless without slin (for me, that is)... my question is, i always read about people using high dose GH on a daily basis (10-20 iu per day)... they get great results... but i don't see anyone mentioning slin. has anyone done slin (5-10 iu) with high doses of GH on a daily or 2-3 times per week schedule?

IGF+slin

I've tried the IGF last year on an ED basis without slin... didn't see much except for extra vascularity. has anyone used it on a 2-3 times per week basis with slin?

I see threads with people recommending this, but i never hear anything about what the results are.

Sampson · Oct 22, 2007

I agree, Ive done growth a few times, high and low doses and havent noticed much from it, but hearing from others slin and growth is the way to go. Theres quite a few people on the uk boards saying that slin/growth in the same pin PWO IM produces the best gains.

I saw this in the articles section the other day, sounds a little over the top but it made me think:-

Ambitious Athletes Attempt an Anabolic Addition

Insulin is often referred to as “the most anabolic hormone”. Unfortunately, this means it builds adipose tissue as well as muscle. Although it’s possible to get a nice “natural” anabolic effect by simply eating about 1g/kg of carbohydrate and some protein after a workout, endogenous (naturally-produced) insulin production is reduced during and immediately after exercise. This is mostly due to the effects of increased circulating catecholamines (epinephrine and norepinephrine). These “fight or flight” hormones put the damper on one’s pancreas. This is too bad for bodybuilders since GH may really be flowing at this time (depending on meal timing, age, etc.) and it seems to have very, very synergistic anabolic effects when present at the same time as insulin. In fact, there is research showing how GH or insulin alone have little effect on weight gain in animals, but when injected together (simultaneously), animals triple in size!! 1 It’s speculated that GH stimulates uptake of about half of the 9 or so essential amino acids into muscle, while insulin stimulates the uptake (or prevents the loss) of the complimentary half.1 Since all must be present for protein synthesis, vóila! Notice that I said “injected together” – this does not occur naturally. GH and insulin are largely counter-regulatory (and not present together), so their dramatic effects have been reserved for drug users.

buselmo · Oct 22, 2007

that's a great article...
but i want to see real people results, with dosages and lean mass gains... yes, GH and insulin are best taken together... but at what dosages? I know i'm gonna have to try them all out by myself (planning on it in the near future), but i wanna see some ideas... 40 iu once a week with 5 iu slin each gh shot throughout the day? 4 iu per day with 10 iu slin? 20 iu GH with 10 iu slin shot post workout 3x per week? i want more ideas... since this method (GH+slin) works really quick.. i mean, results are within a week... it's easy to determine which method is best... hell, 2 iu GH with 5 iu slin EOD gave me results i haven't seen from GH alone EVER!!!! It seems from what i've experienced, that the more gh used, the better and faster the results are (i don't think slin should be more than 5-10 iu per day or EOD or whatever... in one day i don't see why it should exceed 10 iu... and i never tried humalog, never will, but humalin-R is the easiest to control... hell i once took a 5 iu shot with 2 iu GH after a workout and didn't eat til 5 hours later... didn't even feel dizzy for a second)... anyway... i just need ideas...

TooPowerful4u · Oct 22, 2007

So you are attributing that size gain to the GH and Slin and not just the mega dose of GH? Did you try this consistently, like 24iu E5D or something?

tatteredxangelx · Oct 23, 2007

Depends what you're goals are ... Using slin w/ GH and IGF for me ... gave me a few quick lbs, but I did not see any of the fat loss effects attributed to growth ... using growth alone @ 10iu M/W/F has me melting fat, but staying the same on the scale ...

buselmo · Oct 23, 2007

TooPowerful4u said:
So you are attributing that size gain to the GH and Slin and not just the mega dose of GH? Did you try this consistently, like 24iu E5D or something?

If i use GH with slin, either high dose one day, or low dose for a week or 2, i can definately tell that i'm growing FAST! and this is without changing AAS schedule, diet, or training routine. I remember the last time i used GH without the slin was around 8 or 9 months ago... I usually get Eutropin by LG around here cuz it's affordable and always available... but this time i went with the chinese generic cuz it was much cheaper... anyway, i used 20 iu per day for two days straight to check the potency (10 iu pw, and 10 iu before bed), by day 3, my hands swelled up and went numb at night (i still have a permanent mark on my finger from my wedding ring and the swelling... almost cut my finger off) some water retention... that's it!!! nothing else... no strength, no fullness, no nothing. For me, a mega dose of GH alone has done nothing but given me sides... GH at 4 iu per day without slin gave nothing except some fat loss that was negligable. I tried Gavin's 3 times per week GH protocol with slin... blew up!!!... phil taught me one way... blew up... 2 iu eod with 5 iu slin... blew up... the more GH i use, the bigger i get... hell, i gained more than 8 lbs in less than a week when i mega dosed before i went on vacation... i know that maybe 7.5 lbs of that was bloat... but it's not the bloat i get from dbol or a-bombs (you know, the kind that actually ruins the body)... this was like all the water was inside the muscle!!... i would get a pump by tying my damn shoes!!! here's a picture of how i looked like 10 days after the injection
this was the biggest i've ever been in my life
and i attribute it all to the GH + slin... cuz at that point, i was off of all AAS i was on

buselmo · Oct 23, 2007

ok... i'll tell you what.... i'm a bit more than 12 weeks out right now... I will get as lean as i can for my contest with phil's help... After the contest, i will go back to phil's recommendation for diet... won't change the gear unless phil wants me to... but i'll have 8-10 weeks left for the next contest... I will spend 4 weeks on GH and slin, and another 4 weeks on IGF and slin... i want all of you to give me ideas on different methods to use them... then i'm gonna start a poll thread to vote for the best methods mentioned in this thread. the method that gets the most votes, i will try and post weekly pictures.
I'm sick and tired of hearing "this is the best method... great results"... what kind of results?????... so, now you'll know... actually in 4 months you'll know

...

TooPowerful4u · Oct 23, 2007

buselmo said:
If i use GH with slin, either high dose one day, or low dose for a week or 2, i can definately tell that i'm growing FAST! and this is without changing AAS schedule, diet, or training routine. I remember the last time i used GH without the slin was around 8 or 9 months ago... I usually get Eutropin by LG around here cuz it's affordable and always available... but this time i went with the chinese generic cuz it was much cheaper... anyway, i used 20 iu per day for two days straight to check the potency (10 iu pw, and 10 iu before bed), by day 3, my hands swelled up and went numb at night (i still have a permanent mark on my finger from my wedding ring and the swelling... almost cut my finger off) some water retention... that's it!!! nothing else... no strength, no fullness, no nothing. For me, a mega dose of GH alone has done nothing but given me sides... GH at 4 iu per day without slin gave nothing except some fat loss that was negligable. I tried Gavin's 3 times per week GH protocol with slin... blew up!!!... phil taught me one way... blew up... 2 iu eod with 5 iu slin... blew up... the more GH i use, the bigger i get... hell, i gained more than 8 lbs in less than a week when i mega dosed before i went on vacation... i know that maybe 7.5 lbs of that was bloat... but it's not the bloat i get from dbol or a-bombs (you know, the kind that actually ruins the body)... this was like all the water was inside the muscle!!... i would get a pump by tying my damn shoes!!! here's a picture of how i looked like 10 days after the injection
this was the biggest i've ever been in my life
and i attribute it all to the GH + slin... cuz at that point, i was off of all AAS i was on

Dude your post makes no sense. You say one thing, then you say the other. First you say

"the more GH i use, the bigger i get... hell, i gained more than 8 lbs in less than a week when i mega dosed before i went on vacation... i know that maybe 7.5 lbs of that was bloat... but it's not the bloat i get from dbol or a-bombs (you know, the kind that actually ruins the body)... this was like all the water was inside the muscle!"

And then your saying its the slin. Make up your mind. I think you blew up because of the big dose of GH, not the slin. Iv never heard of soemone bloating up and shit on slin. Maybe the slin helps with growth n strength, but your trail with GH seems to be the reason you got so puffy and big.

buselmo · Oct 24, 2007

TP4U,
i was referring to GH+slin... You don't need a lot of slin to get the synergistic effect... I mentioned when i used GH alone at a high dose, i got nothing but sides... but (before the vacation) i used it with slin, and got puffy. Plus, when i take it with slin, i face no sides whatsoever.
to make it short:

GH+slin = i get bigger
More GH + same amount of slin = i get even bigger
Gh alone (low dose) = nothing (maybe sped up fat loss by 5-10%)
Gh alone high dose = Sides + some water retention (the bad kind)
Slin alone = fat gains

do you see where i'm going with this?

diskey · Oct 24, 2007

I would do Phil's protocol. I think he has tried most of the combinatitions of over the years, so he knows what works the best. I'm eager to try it myself.

I only done one kit, 3iu ed before a contest, with Phil's diet the last weeks, I got in very good shape (see my avatar). But talking about mass gains I think infrequent protocols like eod with slin is the way to go.

There are many discussions about gh+slin on this board and Phil has made some comments on it over the time. He also talks a little about why one would stick to moderate doses of gh. Since he is training you maybe he will elaborate a little about -why- for you.

I've tried igf also on itself, peg-igf, to be honest didn't notice much from it. Tried different protocols, anyway best way to take it I feel is small injections like 3 times a day, 3 days a week.

Also tried slin alone with aas some times, only pwo up to 12iu humalog. Maybe added a couple of lbs lbm over 4 months or something nothing more. Slin is by far not any miracle drug by itself, and should be done IM by itself at least.

cole617 · Nov 11, 2007

gh/slin

If you inject them in the same pin...What about sugar? Sugar is supposed to be drank after slin, but can block the effects of gh. How do you work around that? I would think GH, then slin 30-40min later - then eat....Anyone?

This is why I don't do PWO GH...

I have asked many experts & everyonr has an "opinion". But noone knows; I am still very interested to hear what everyone thinks- everyone with experience.

slowpain · Dec 30, 2007

I think I know what hes trying to say and I have seen the best results with HGH and Slin together, And when I do them both I dont hold as much water as HGH alone...

BigBastard · Dec 30, 2007

diskey said:
I would do Phil's protocol. I think he has tried most of the combinatitions of over the years, so he knows what works the best. I'm eager to try it myself.

I only done one kit, 3iu ed before a contest, with Phil's diet the last weeks, I got in very good shape (see my avatar). But talking about mass gains I think infrequent protocols like eod with slin is the way to go.

There are many discussions about gh+slin on this board and Phil has made some comments on it over the time. He also talks a little about why one would stick to moderate doses of gh. Since he is training you maybe he will elaborate a little about -why- for you.

I've tried igf also on itself, peg-igf, to be honest didn't notice much from it. Tried different protocols, anyway best way to take it I feel is small injections like 3 times a day, 3 days a week.

Also tried slin alone with aas some times, only pwo up to 12iu humalog. Maybe added a couple of lbs lbm over 4 months or something nothing more. Slin is by far not any miracle drug by itself, and should be done IM by itself at least.