now it depends where you get it from. Extreme sell 1293 and 1295 without dac and there both exactly the same. They sell it as both as its what people know-At least that used to be the case as stated by one of there reps, i believe its still the case. technically there is no such thing as cjc 1295 without dac as cjc 1295 has dac-its what it is-when you remove the dac it no longer is cjc 1295 but im splitting hairs.What you see sold as cjc 1295 with out dac should be mod grf 1-29. They just call it cjc 1295 as again its a name people know