Phil Heath “over 10g of oils in a week”

[Massive G]

I'm with you. I'm sure this will piss people off but I dont care. It is starting to feel like the old getbig when these threads come up. Everyone must think ALL pros use 10g of gear and if you even dare say one of them used less, you get harassed, called stupid, naive, etc. I think it's ridiculous to believe there is no genetic variability and that some use less than others.

The content of this board has really changed over the last few years. Not sure if it's because of many people use social media now but a handful of people go around harassing and ganging up on just about everything and everyone like they own the board. You can clearly look at Phil's physique transformation over the years and see he took a lot less in the beginning and early years than he took at his peak.
But many think everyone is on gobs of drugs.
I am in my 50 years plus and do everything how I feel. Training is at least 40% less intense than in my prime and I have not done a heavy cycle in a decade. I made the decision in my early 40s to take no more than 600 mg week cycles 3 times a year of test and deca. I hit trt sub-q in between and never melted away. Once I hit 50 I abolished IM injections altogether and never exceeded 350 mg on a cycle. Most recently I have settled on 25 mg sub-q a day of an anabolic mix of 6 test esters and 2 nandralone esters with a kiss of dbol injection.
I call it microcycling and fell FANTASTIC on it!!
All esters blended in a bottle and sub-q injected with 30 G. No lumps etc. Many discount the advantages or benefits.of sub-q and then again won't engage in an argument to engage the doubters. NOT everything works for everyone. That is the advantage of sharing knowledge and experiences from everyone...try things and discard what works.
On a final note NOTHUMAN I really respect and enjoy your posts you have evolved into a great resource here. I remember your early days on here you were young and like a bull in a China shop for awhile as we all were in our younger days. I spend most of my time here reading older posts on this board as it is the best message board on the www for information unfortunately most just hit new posts and are robbing themselves of a lot of missed. I thank Big A and the mods for it. Been around since 2004 on here and still learning.

 

[traininsane11]

He's probably talking about Kai. Back when Kai was winning shows it was rumored he was taking insane amounts of AAS in grams.

I could believe this just because of how extreme Kai came across and thinking back to his physique how he was probably using a fair whack of SEO type things (his biceps for example)

But also seeing his as potentially natural looking better than most low level pros who are on gear

I honestly believe the genetic variance in response to everything but in this case gear is massive I’ve seen it first hand with guys running grams of gear including one guy in particular a gram of tren for about 2 years and he trained super hard and was pretty damn strong but honestly didn’t even really look like he worked out

Then I know other guys who’ve done a 500mg cycle of test for 20 weeks from natural and could place highly at an amateur show

Neither of these being anywhere close to genetic elites

I know personally a literal world class level powerlifter who’s never been above 1g of gear and squatted over 800lbs natural at like 230lbs

These freaks of nature are out there

 

[IntenseVolume]

Chris was coached by Justin Harris also (as was I) he got 2nd place to Phil in the heavyweight class, he had some huge legs.
SUPER nice guy.View attachment 195001

Justin’s guys always look so damn impressive.

 

[Massive G]

I could believe this just because of how extreme Kai came across and thinking back to his physique how he was probably using a fair whack of SEO type things (his biceps for example)

But also seeing his as potentially natural looking better than most low level pros who are on gear

I honestly believe the genetic variance in response to everything but in this case gear is massive I’ve seen it first hand with guys running grams of gear including one guy in particular a gram of tren for about 2 years and he trained super hard and was pretty damn strong but honestly didn’t even really look like he worked out

Then I know other guys who’ve done a 500mg cycle of test for 20 weeks from natural and could place highly at an amateur show

Neither of these being anywhere close to genetic elites

I know personally a literal world class level powerlifter who’s never been above 1g of gear and squatted over 800lbs natural at like 230lbs

These freaks of nature are out there

Yes many of us couldn't/can metabolize insane doses. I truly believe some pros can take gobs of gear and get a lot less side effects than others. I know when I tried pushing the envelope in my peak years I would be so miserable with sides I couldn't train until the doses were lowered. GH is a good example some can take 20 ius a day which would turn many of us into mummies from the insane nerve pain and bloated balloons.

 

[traininsane11]

Yes many of us couldn't/can metabolize insane doses. I truly believe some pros can take gobs of gear and get a lot less side effects than others. I know when I tried pushing the envelope in my peak years I would be so miserable with sides I couldn't train until the doses were lowered. GH is a good example some can take 20 ius a day which would turn many of us into mummies from the insane nerve pain and bloated balloons.

I think party this but also an even better genetic response would be able to grow more off less (as opposed to just being able to handle more)

I’m sure this will upset many but it’s not directed at anyone at all just an observation

The people who claim pros use extreme amounts of gear and that’s what it takes etc etc are for the most part guys that look like they don’t train or at best average level competitors

But then the people I speak to who are actually high level competitors don’t have the same view point at all that’s from personal experience and other guys their level they speak with. Yes it goes higher as you progress but far less than many seem to think

Yes they may be lying but so might the guys who say it’s all about gear maybe they’re just bitter

Go through the members on this board on the high dosage threads

For the most part the best physiques are on the lower end of the gear amounts vs other guys who take a tonne and are average

I’m sure this will get the response of “yeah it’s genetics” and that’s my whole point thanks for acknowledging it

 

[Hyperemia]

The people who claim pros use extreme amounts of gear and that’s what it takes etc etc are for the most part guys that look like they don’t train or at best average level competitors

Go through the members on this board on the high dosage threads

For the most part the best physiques are on the lower end of the gear amounts vs other guys who take a tonne and are average

Nearly every pro sized bodybuilder is taking grams of gear here. I’m not sure where you’re getting the guys that look best, are on the lower end. Sure looks best is subjective, how about those that are the size of SHW bodybuilders? The guys at 200lbs on their best day might take a little, big surprise. Check what the 260 lb+ guys are doing… Yes, there are several here and most are very open about use.

Also don’t forget that a lot of big guys or formerly big guys that preach lower doses now, got big with bigger doses than they’re advocating.

I do agree that genetics play a big role. There’s not argument there. Some can take a little and look great while others can take a lot and look mediocre. Do you really think that at the top, these guys aren’t pushing the doses to be the best? If you’re exceptional at a couple grams of gear, do you just stop there if you’re goal is to be the best? Doubt many would, you’d want to see where more will take you. To some it’ll be a disappointing result, to others it could be quite the opposite. As a pro said themselves here,

At the very top of this sport, it’s chemical warfare.

 

[traininsane11]

My prior post was more highlighting the fact that the genetic response to gear is the biggest thing and the elite guys may well take less than the guys who can’t place top 10 at a pro qualifier

I can only comment on the people I know personally of which roughly 5 all compete at over 260lbs and the average gear amount is around 2.5g

Now reading through some of the high dosage threads 2.5g would often be a cycle listed out by a guy who 3 threads later is asking on diet tips to get past 200lbs

BeefStu
Bboy

2 high level guys who don’t seem to of run these massive amounts on this board for an example now if Stu suddenly ups his dosage to 10g he will become mr Olympia that seems to be the general consensus for some

The worse your genetics are the more gear you may need that’s exactly what I’m saying but some seem to think you need a boat load regardless and from personal experience just not the case

 

[M@NU]

My prior post was more highlighting the fact that the genetic response to gear is the biggest thing and the elite guys may well take less than the guys who can’t place top 10 at a pro qualifier

I can only comment on the people I know personally of which roughly 5 all compete at over 260lbs and the average gear amount is around 2.5g

Now reading through some of the high dosage threads 2.5g would often be a cycle listed out by a guy who 3 threads later is asking on diet tips to get past 200lbs

BeefStu
Bboy

2 high level guys who don’t seem to of run these massive amounts on this board for an example now if Stu suddenly ups his dosage to 10g he will become mr Olympia that seems to be the general consensus for some

The worse your genetics are the more gear you may need that’s exactly what I’m saying but some seem to think you need a boat load regardless and from personal experience just not the case

this is the thing were you are wrong.
i am sure Bboy and BeefStu used other dosages to get where they are right now than what they preach.
you dont need much to hold a certain mass and refine this mass.
but you need a good amount to get to this mass

 

[traininsane11]

this is the thing were you are wrong.
i am sure Bboy and BeefStu used other dosages to get where they are right now than what they preach.
you dont need much to hold a certain mass and refine this mass.
but you need a good amount to get to this mass

Maybe I am but that would mean they were liars (maybe they are) both have stated their highest dosages on here and they’re around the amounts I stated above

Truth is we don’t know what anyone uses maybe the guys who say you need copious amounts are just trying to kill off the competition by getting them to ruin their health

Anything’s possible until we do it ourselves we shall never know

But the amount of high dosage stated cycles vs the amount of top pro physiques on here is somewhat skewed if gear really is the key

 

[IntenseVolume]

My prior post was more highlighting the fact that the genetic response to gear is the biggest thing and the elite guys may well take less than the guys who can’t place top 10 at a pro qualifier

I can only comment on the people I know personally of which roughly 5 all compete at over 260lbs and the average gear amount is around 2.5g

Now reading through some of the high dosage threads 2.5g would often be a cycle listed out by a guy who 3 threads later is asking on diet tips to get past 200lbs

BeefStu
Bboy

2 high level guys who don’t seem to of run these massive amounts on this board for an example now if Stu suddenly ups his dosage to 10g he will become mr Olympia that seems to be the general consensus for some

The worse your genetics are the more gear you may need that’s exactly what I’m saying but some seem to think you need a boat load regardless and from personal experience just not the case

Read this

So sick of this - HERE'S THE TRUTH!

This site was always set up as an advanced site, where you can find TRUTHFUL information about bodybuilding, not bulshit and ideology promoted by people who generally have agendas. This is the truth: If your diet, training, health and rest are completely up to scratch, the more steroids you...

www.professionalmuscle.com

 

[traininsane11]

Read this

So sick of this - HERE'S THE TRUTH!

This site was always set up as an advanced site, where you can find TRUTHFUL information about bodybuilding, not bulshit and ideology promoted by people who generally have agendas. This is the truth: If your diet, training, health and rest are completely up to scratch, the more steroids you...

www.professionalmuscle.com

I have and maybe it’s true maybe it’s not or maybe it just varies massively

If 5 pros tell you they use 2g and 5 tell you they use 10g neither group has to be lying

And if you use 2g why not see what you’re capable off at 4g etc yes but also why not 15/20/30g? For someone a suggestion of 20g is just crazy and someone else a suggestion of 5g is just crazy

We can all find something that someone said to back up our arguments I imagine

 

[IntenseVolume]

I have and maybe it’s true maybe it’s not or maybe it just varies massively

If 5 pros tell you they use 2g and 5 tell you they use 10g neither group has to be lying

And if you use 2g why not see what you’re capable off at 4g etc yes but also why not 15/20/30g? For someone a suggestion of 20g is just crazy and someone else a suggestion of 5g is just crazy

We can all find something that someone said to back up our arguments I imagine

Maybe what’s not true? That if diet and training are up to snuff the more you take the more you grow? Thats objectively true for everyone up to certain individual point.

Why would someone who’s trying to be the best in the world or even the biggest and best they can be not do everything they could to reach their goals?

What other sport or competition do people think “im going to be the best or the best I can be by not doing everything I possibly can”

 

[IntenseVolume]

I have and maybe it’s true maybe it’s not or maybe it just varies massively

If 5 pros tell you they use 2g and 5 tell you they use 10g neither group has to be lying

And if you use 2g why not see what you’re capable off at 4g etc yes but also why not 15/20/30g? For someone a suggestion of 20g is just crazy and someone else a suggestion of 5g is just crazy

We can all find something that someone said to back up our arguments I imagine

Do you really need it explained to you why people aren’t taking 30g of gear?
Because at a certain point the sides become too much and it has a negative effect on your appetite, rest, etc.
I’d think this would be common sense

 

[traininsane11]

I like this forum it’s one of the few places in the world where the more drugs you use the more respect you earn

Damn those AA meetings I’m turning up drunk next time to make them like me more

 

[IntenseVolume]

I like this forum it’s one of the few places in the world where the more drugs you use the more respect you earn

Damn those AA meetings I’m turning up drunk next time to make them like me more

That’s what happens when you lack the ability to think

 

[b-boy]

I like this forum it’s one of the few places in the world where the more drugs you use the more respect you earn

I honestly don't know why so many care about what someone else takes, if you take 6 grams and look like a 270lb bag of shit I just shake my head and say to myself "carry on brother". If it makes you happy then

 

[traininsane11]

I honestly don't know why so many care about what someone else takes, if you take 6 grams and look like a 270lb bag of shit I just shake my head and say to myself "carry on brother". If it makes you happy then

Because there always has to be a reason why you can’t get to the top level

It’s pharma gear that’s it that’s the secret

No no

It’s pharma GH that’s the real secret them bastards are hiding

Wait no it’s

Increlex/igf! That’s the reason

Actually no

It’s mega high dosages that’s it

Etc etc etc

The guys I know in person who are active high level competitors (plot twist they aren’t all genetic elites taking 10g of pharma gear, 20iu pharma gh and increlex) laugh at these forums because for the most part it’s just faceless people talking rubbish with nothing to back it up. But hey who knows maybe it’s the guy on the internet who has loads of online forum accomplishments that knows it all and not the guys racking up the wins

 

[traininsane11]

But hey I will be seeing Samson next week I’ll let him know he can stop worrying about finding a new coach because he just needs to up his dose because more is better

But only up to a level that some guy on a forum said because less than that isn’t enough and more is mental

 

[Hyperemia]

Because there always has to be a reason why you can’t get to the top level

It’s pharma gear that’s it that’s the secret

No no

It’s pharma GH that’s the real secret them bastards are hiding

Wait no it’s

Increlex/igf! That’s the reason

Actually no

It’s mega high dosages that’s it

Etc etc etc

The guys I know in person who are active high level competitors (plot twist they aren’t all genetic elites taking 10g of pharma gear, 20iu pharma gh and increlex) laugh at these forums because for the most part it’s just faceless people talking rubbish with nothing to back it up. But hey who knows maybe it’s the guy on the internet who has loads of online forum accomplishments that knows it all and not the guys racking up the wins

But hey I will be seeing Samson next week I’ll let him know he can stop worrying about finding a new coach because he just needs to up his dose because more is better

You’ve spectacularly missed the point. Bravo!

 

[b-boy]

You’ve spectacularly missed the point. Bravo!

Maybe THE point (according to you) but he does make a GOOD point