Phil Heath “over 10g of oils in a week”

[IntenseVolume]

Because there always has to be a reason why you can’t get to the top level

It’s pharma gear that’s it that’s the secret

No no

It’s pharma GH that’s the real secret them bastards are hiding

Wait no it’s

Increlex/igf! That’s the reason

Actually no

It’s mega high dosages that’s it

Etc etc etc

The guys I know in person who are active high level competitors (plot twist they aren’t all genetic elites taking 10g of pharma gear, 20iu pharma gh and increlex) laugh at these forums because for the most part it’s just faceless people talking rubbish with nothing to back it up. But hey who knows maybe it’s the guy on the internet who has loads of online forum accomplishments that knows it all and not the guys racking up the wins

But hey I will be seeing Samson next week I’ll let him know he can stop worrying about finding a new coach because he just needs to up his dose because more is better

But only up to a level that some guy on a forum said because less than that isn’t enough and more is mental

This is what happens when you make up things to respond to

 

[nothuman]

The content of this board has really changed over the last few years. Not sure if it's because of many people use social media now but a handful of people go around harassing and ganging up on just about everything and everyone like they own the board. You can clearly look at Phil's physique transformation over the years and see he took a lot less in the beginning and early years than he took at his peak.
But many think everyone is on gobs of drugs.
I am in my 50 years plus and do everything how I feel. Training is at least 40% less intense than in my prime and I have not done a heavy cycle in a decade. I made the decision in my early 40s to take no more than 600 mg week cycles 3 times a year of test and deca. I hit trt sub-q in between and never melted away. Once I hit 50 I abolished IM injections altogether and never exceeded 350 mg on a cycle. Most recently I have settled on 25 mg sub-q a day of an anabolic mix of 6 test esters and 2 nandralone esters with a kiss of dbol injection.
I call it microcycling and fell FANTASTIC on it!!
All esters blended in a bottle and sub-q injected with 30 G. No lumps etc. Many discount the advantages or benefits.of sub-q and then again won't engage in an argument to engage the doubters. NOT everything works for everyone. That is the advantage of sharing knowledge and experiences from everyone...try things and discard what works.
On a final note NOTHUMAN I really respect and enjoy your posts you have evolved into a great resource here. I remember your early days on here you were young and like a bull in a China shop for awhile as we all were in our younger days. I spend most of my time here reading older posts on this board as it is the best message board on the www for information unfortunately most just hit new posts and are robbing themselves of a lot of missed. I thank Big A and the mods for it. Been around since 2004 on here and still learning.

I appreciate you too, my friend. You are definitely not wrong about my very old "young bull in a China shop" posts either from years ago and it's cool you've been around long enough to remember. Whenever I see you make a post, I always stop to read what you have to say.

I also notice the vet gang up mentality here sometimes and I don't like it either. It makes people afraid to have differing opinions, which is an issue. It bothers me that whenever someone with a lower post count says or asks something, they get ganged up on and nobody wants to defend them because they're afraid to piss off the old boys club. I know that I am one of the vets too but I try not to make people feel stupid for having different opinions or asking questions.

 

[Hyperemia]

Maybe THE point (according to you) but he does make a GOOD point

What exactly is that GOOD point though? Genetics are supreme, there’s no argument there. If you don’t have a pro caliber physique at 2 grams, you won’t have it at 5grams, 10 grams etc, no argument there. Pharma vs generic?Cmon… Etc etc …

Nobody here is arguing the points he’s refuting in the messages I quoted. That’s where he missed the point of mine and the other posters he’s responding to. It’s a made up narrative he’s stroking from both sides. It’s fucking weird.

 

[bbxtreme]

I appreciate you too, my friend. You are definitely not wrong about my very old "young bull in a China shop" posts either from years ago and it's cool you've been around long enough to remember. Whenever I see you make a post, I always stop to read what you have to say.

I also notice the vet gang up mentality here sometimes and I don't like it either. It makes people afraid to have differing opinions, which is an issue. It bothers me that whenever someone with a lower post count says or asks something, they get ganged up on and nobody wants to defend them because they're afraid to piss off the old boys club. I know that I am one of the vets too but I try not to make people feel stupid for having different opinions or asking questions.

The truth is that when a lot of these guys say or start this stupid shit on here most vets just find it comical and laugh and talk in DM’s.

All of these guys on here thinking it’s all about grams of gear and not posting up physique pics come and go. But the vets (like you) will always be here.

I don’t put much stock in it. It’s the cycle of life.

 

[nothuman]

What am I missing here? What is @traininsane11 saying that people are not agreeing with?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Maybe what’s not true? That if diet and training are up to snuff the more you take the more you grow? Thats objectively true for everyone up to certain individual point.

Why would someone who’s trying to be the best in the world or even the biggest and best they can be not do everything they could to reach their goals?

What other sport or competition do people think “im going to be the best or the best I can be by not doing everything I possibly can”

So they dont die? There are a quite a few people that have bowed out of this sport all together simply because they did not want to greatly compromise their health and/or die.

 

[traininsane11]

What am I missing here? What is @traininsane11 saying that people are not agreeing with?

To be fair I even forgot what I was arguing about

Basically the point I’m trying to highlight from my experience of mixing in circles of very accomplished bodybuilders is that when a top SHW bodybuilder says he never went over let’s say 2.5g but a general “lower” dose by the current trends at least it isn’t necessarily a lie. Sure some may lie but not all. Some of these same people have ventured higher and nearly always say they got nothing beneficial from it which dispels universally the thing of “well if 2g =5 then 4g must =10”

I believe the amount to max out a physique differs massively based on genetics and 5g in one person may end up bringing the same result as 500mg in another

That’s all I’m saying is these guys aren’t always talking crap it just really sucks to know how for 99% of us we got screwed genetically

 

[M@NU]

What am I missing here? What is @traininsane11 saying that people are not agreeing with?

that there are certain guys (out there and on this board) that purposely hold back with dosages to not get too good
lets face it. Response to gear and tolerating side effects are one of the big genetic points that a good bodybuilder has to have.
I am sure @b-boy or @Beef_Stu_97 didnt tell themselves "oh, ill stay at 750mgs test, a bit primo and 200mg tren so the other competitors have a chance vs me"..
I bet they tried higher dosages and saw, that either the side effects got to harsh or the additional gain was too small to take the risks.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

What am I missing here? What is @traininsane11 saying that people are not agreeing with?

I thought he has been making great points myself.....sanely looking at both sides of the equation.

 

[traininsane11]

So they dont die? There are a quite a few people that have bowed out of this sport all together simply because they did not want to greatly compromise their health and/or die.

A factor that almost gets forgotten.

I’ve heard many times from guys who were already really good push dosages up to the slightly more questionable amount and their physiques started going backwards because the sides just outweigh the benefits

Of course this is another genetic component but I think the “ceiling” for almost all is faaaar below the 10g mark

 

[Hyperemia]

To be fair I even forgot what I was arguing about

Basically the point I’m trying to highlight from my experience of mixing in circles of very accomplished bodybuilders is that when a top SHW bodybuilder says he never went over let’s say 2.5g but a general “lower” dose by the current trends at least it isn’t necessarily a lie. Sure some may lie but not all. Some of these same people have ventured higher and nearly always say they got nothing beneficial from it which dispels universally the thing of “well if 2g =5 then 4g must =10”

I believe the amount to max out a physique differs massively based on genetics and 5g in one person may end up bringing the same result as 500mg in another

That’s all I’m saying is these guys aren’t always talking crap it just really sucks to know how for 99% of us we got screwed genetically

We are on the same page.

 

[bbxtreme]

What am I missing here? What is @traininsane11 saying that people are not agreeing with?

I thought his post was spot on. Guys are always looking for something to blame as to why they’re not the next Phil Heath.

Reality is, they’re just not Phil Heath and never will be.

 

[nothuman]

I thought he has been making great points myself.....sanely looking at both sides of the equation.

I was thinking what he is saying is exactly what you always say. Some guys abuse the hell out of themselves and others are slightly more conservative but can still be at the same level, despite the contrast in dosages.

 

[traininsane11]

I thought his post was spot on. Guys are always looking for something to blame as to why they’re not the next Phil Heath.

Reality is, they’re just not Phil Heath and never will be.

Couldn’t agree more! These guys aren’t doing anything that anyone else can’t do if they so wish (and often are and more)

It’s extremely frustrating when someone can put it half the effort in a sense and get twice the results and for many (me included for many years) it’s a hard pill to swallow and it’s easier to just accept it’s not true

 

[luki7788]

A pointless discussion ensued again - it's not about how much someone takes, and in fact, I personally don't care. The only thing is that the guy wants to portray everyone around him as irresponsible and risk-taking and to show himself in a good light and how reasonable and safe he is and that he is so good that he doesn't need what others do - sorry but I wouldn't say that e.g. Kai had worse genetics than Phil

 

[Yousef12O2]

A guy might eat 600 grams of protein and shit half of it, it just ruins his digestion and he has to spend extra time in the bathroom. Same thing with gear.

 

[IntenseVolume]

]

So they dont die? There are a quite a few people that have bowed out of this sport all together simply because they did not want to greatly compromise their health and/or die.

And that becomes the point of the risk outweighing the reward. That’s why I preface it with up to an individual point.

 

[b-boy]

I thought he has been making great points myself.....sanely looking at both sides of the equation.

X2

 

[nothuman]

Couldn’t agree more! These guys aren’t doing anything that anyone else can’t do if they so wish (and often are and more)

It’s extremely frustrating when someone can put it half the effort in a sense and get twice the results and for many (me included for many years) it’s a hard pill to swallow and it’s easier to just accept it’s not true

Absolutely, and even if most of us can't look like Phil Heath, we will still have everyone in the real world telling us how huge or how great we look. I notice that some guys I used to think were jacked or look amazing are no longer impressive looking to me after I have passed them up. However, most people will still look at them and think they are jacked. Perspective is key.

 

[buck]

I tend to think the dosages that some use is also indicative of how fast they think they can put on size. I am not sure that is quite the way it works. More gear with everything else being equal will likely make more muscle.But with diminishing returns as the dose goes beyond a point. Those that are willing to take longer to grow may also use less and get to the same place. I see guys in the gym daily that i believe are on AS. And don't really see where they are getting close to the benefits that they could. As the weight they are moving is fairly pitiful for the muscle they do have. So those that use gear to grow as opposed to training and food are more likley to think others are doing the same. And don't even know their training and food is what is holding them back more than the dose they are using. I think 95% of lifters shouldn't even try to compete at being as good as a national level amature as they will never even make it to that level.