CJC + arginine?

[medium al]

Someone over at AM posted up this abstract, very interesting. Basically adding 8 mg oral arginine greatly enhances effects of GHRH supplementation. Test is on old people, but may apply to others. What does this mean for CJC?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

1: Eur J Endocrinol. 1995 Jan;132(1):32-6.
Effect of 15-day treatment with growth-hormone-releasing hormone alone or combined with different doses of arginine on the reduced somatotrope responsiveness to the neurohormone in normal aging.Ghigo E, Ceda GP, Valcavi R, Goffi S, Zini M, Mucci M, Valenti G, Muller EE, Camanni F.
Department of Clinical Pathophysiology, University of Turin, Italy.

It is well known that both spontaneous and growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH)-stimulated GH secretion undergo an age-related decrease; in addition, there is supportive evidence that the GH hyposecretory state of aging is of hypothalamic origin. The aims of the study in 35 normal elderly subjects (20 males and 15 females aged 65-89 years) were to verify whether the low somatotrope responsiveness to GHRH (1 microgram/kg) can be primed by a daily GHRH treatment and whether the potentiating effect of both high intravenous (0.5 g/kg) and low oral (8 g) doses of arginine (ARG) on GH response to GHRH is maintained with time. In group A (N = 14) the GH response to GHRH on day 1 (AUC: 373.5 +/- 78.5 micrograms.l-1.h-1) was unchanged after 7 (3720 +/- 38 micrograms.l-1.h-1) and 15 days (377.9 +/- 63.8 micrograms.l-1.h-1) of daily GHRH administration. In group B (N = 6) the GH response to GHRH co-administered with iv ARG on day 1 (1614.2 +/- 146.2 micrograms.l-1.h-1) was higher (p < 0.05) than that of GHRH alone (group A) and persisted unchanged after 7 (1514.7 +/- 366.5 micrograms.l-1.h-1) and 15 days (1631.7 +/- 379.1 micrograms.l-1.h-1) of treatment. In group C (N = 15) the GH response to GHRH co-administered with oral ARG on day 1 (950.6 +/- 219.4 micrograms.l-1.h-1) was higher (p < 0.03) than that of GHRH alone (group A) but lower (p < 0.05) than that to GHRH plus iv ARG (group B).(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

 

[medium al]

another one

OK, here it looks like adding arg. is definitely the way to go if you're a bit older.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA

1: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1990 Dec;71(6):1481-5.Links
Growth hormone (GH) responsiveness to combined administration of arginine and GH-releasing hormone does not vary with age in man.Ghigo E, Goffi S, Nicolosi M, Arvat E, Valente F, Mazza E, Ghigo MC, Camanni F.
Department of Clinical Physiopathology, University of Turin, Italy.

At present, the mechanism(s) underlying the reduced spontaneous and stimulated GH secretion in aging is still unclear. To obtain new information on this mechanism(s), the GH responses to both single and combined administration of GH-releasing hormone (GHRH; 1 microgram/kg iv) and arginine (ARG; 30 g infused over 30 min), a well known GH secretagogue probably acting via inhibition of hypothalamic somatostatin release, were studied in seven elderly normal subjects and seven young healthy subjects. Basal GH levels were similar in both groups, while insulin-like growth factor-I levels were lower in elderly subjects (76.7 +/- 9.2 vs. 258.3 +/- 29.2 micrograms/L; P = 0.01). In aged subjects GHRH induced a GH increase (area under the curve, 314.9 +/- 91.9 micrograms/L.h) which was lower (P = 0.01) than that in young subjects (709.1 +/- 114.4 micrograms/L.h). On the other hand, the ARG-induced GH increase in the elderly was not significantly different from that in young subjects (372.8 +/- 81.8 vs. 470.6 +/- 126.5 micrograms/L.h). ARG potentiated GH responsiveness to GHRH in both elderly (1787.1 +/- 226.0 micrograms/L.h; P = 0.0001 vs. GHRH alone) and young subjects (2113.0 +/- 444.3 micrograms/L.h; P = 0.001 vs. GHRH alone). The potentiating effect of ARG on the GHRH-induced GH response was greater in elderly than in young subjects (1013.0 +/- 553.5% vs. 237.9 +/- 79.1%; P = 0.0001); thus, the GH increase induced by combined administration of ARG and GHRH overlapped in two groups. In conclusion, these results show that, differently from the GHRH-induced GH increase, the somatotroph response to combined administration of ARG and GHRH does not vary with age. Our finding suggests that an increased somatostatinergic activity may underlie the reduced GH secretion in normal aging.

PMID: 2229304 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Bobaslaw]

Hey Medium,

That study was found by Solarus (great guy) from AM and was being discussed by both of us there.
It was surprising to me to see the results for 8g oral arginine and it's pretty significant impact on decreasing somatostain tone. My belief to this time was that oral arginine was "touted" not very effective for GH increase.My comment there was that basically there is no reason not to run some arginine throughout the day to complimet CJC.
Cheap, available, and dosages can go beyond 8g for different puroposes.

Actually another interesting study I found (posted there on AM), shows that Arginine can actually negate the effects of glucose induced somatostatin release.

**broken link removed**

...We used an oral glucose load as an approach to investigate
endogenous somatostatin tone, as it is generally accepted
that the acute inhibitory effect of glucose on plasma GH
levels is a consequence of somatostatin reflex discharge from
the hypothalamus. In normal adult subjects, acute hyperglycemia
blocks GH release stimulated by GHRH (4-6, 16-18),
and treatment with pyridostigmine (5, 6) or arginine (19)
counteracts the inhibitory action of glucose on GH release.

Seems arginine could increase effectiveness of CJC during the day at times when meals (plasma glucose increase) would otherwise blunt its action to some degree. Sounds plausable to me...

Hope to get more feedback on this from others on this.

Take Care.

 

[medium al]

Hi Bob,
Yeah that's a great discussion you guys had over at AM. I agree with your asssessment and will be running some arg next time I use CJC. It also appears that the effects of arg are more pronounced as you get older . We'll see what happens.

Al