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DES and LR3 differences?? either one with Hgh

trapz

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Jun 26, 2006
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I know the dosing for IGF lr3 to extend its effectiveness that had been very popular last time i ran it few yrs ago was 3x week PWO... i trained 4x week and just ran it 4... seemed to work just fine up to 6-7 weeks before breaking like that.

first things first, Ive read that LR3 is a better GDA and i know from personal experience if i am notgonna use slin for synergy with the GH, i should get my moneys worth and use somethin even a low dose of LR3.
Im curious if lr3 combined with DES and reducing my dose of lr3 to 50 and stickign to a equipotent des dose if that would improve the GDA effect in my muscles PWO or have any other type of synergistic effect.

also curious if DES at an equipotent dose to 100mcg PWO 4x weekly has any greater synergy vs lr3.... im guessing noone is really sure yet.

2nd thing, is there any peptide that also works as a GDA but doesnt work like insulin, lr3 feels like a GPS laser guided missle aimed at my backyark guided trhough opened windows into the yard to blow a perfect kidney shaped hole for my new pool. neat clean and no messy spillovers left to clean up afterwards like using a bunker buster bomb to dig the hole in my yard instead. it lands in my yard but ends up 5x too deep and spills over to my neighbors yard meaning fat cells which i get stuck handling damage control and cleaning up (as in dieting fat gain from slin off i wouldnt use it unless had a visible six pack and didnt mind gaining a few % bf like if i was at 8% and ended up at 11-12. If LR3 causes a siimlar synergy to insulin with 8-10iu hgh even if its main benefit is creating that synergy while being much more selective in nutrient storage its worth it to me.

from what ive read in articles every supplement which all start off as research material, they've been a bust from the 90's i even read pat arnold say metformin is a waste for anything except diahrea. haha. so on the question of GDA to combine with hGH, the only thing i could think of is one of the meds my mom is on as she is diabetic and so was her mother. Only taking a shot in the doc as this was scripted awhile ago whhen she was complaining about checking her glucose 1'2x daily adn the dr said the medication BYETTA sp??? usually causes weight loss which in a sedentary person if your storing as much gllucose in your muscles as possible as little as they might be, its not being stored in fat cells the way people who im forgetting whether its they have iinsulin resistance or what it is but if it stored glucose more selectively in muscle tissue they dont weight train so it wont cause any muscle gain and if it continually asssisted storing glucose primarliy selective in muscle tissue, they should start losing weight and the DR.said it wont be a massive amount under 10 lbs over 5 after taking it for atleast a month

(ttried to warn my mother but she didnt decide to get serious about eat healthy or start exercising til its injection time and have to take a glucose test 5x a day and is on fast acting insulin a long acting insulin and the byetta. the last few years quicker she lowers her carbs and sticks to meals with higher protein(which doesnt mean a tablespoon of cottage cheese like she would do), with a low glycemic index and load carbohydrate portion and moderate healthy fat. all those neeedles and glucose prickings finally woke her up to eat better and start going for walks and use the pool in her development that the community maintenance fees pay for along with a lil old peoples gym with a bunch of machines quite a few cardio pieces but sadly no barbell and dumbells that stop at like 40 or 50, not much for me to do there. I said for years since her BP and glucose went from testing low normal and started testing high and told hersheneeded to begin exercising even just walking to help improve her insulin sensitivity vs doing nothing use the gym machines she used to 15 yrs ago and clean up her diet and even said the more she worked out the less extreme dietary alterations would have to be most likely. and she would at least be proactive and guaranteed if she didnt need it yet those changes would keep her from taking insulin.)


I LOVED the lr3 with HGH cuz Im naturally sensitive to carbs and the IGFlr3 which works similar as a glucose disposal agent but while likely pure cosmetic changes from IM glycogen loading i can see within 2 days fuller muscles with better seperatioon even increased vascularity .from the muscle fullness.

Those immediate effects and the appearance that if anything it pumps my muscles fulll of glycogen and even 50-100G carbs PWO and another meal an hour later containing about the same amount of real food chickin and rice or yams potato makes it seem better than insulin though i lack the experience with it and GH.

2 problems i had with slin is i bloat easily from all sorts of stuff aside from tren , mast, primo, winny, var, eq, deca tho it hasnt been used recent tryin NPP with a new run. e

1st prroblem with slin for me is when im doinga lean bulk, i eat carbs during the day, train late efternoon/evening, and usually get my fats in my last couple meals. after PWO shake an meal soon after. MY MEALS cutting or bulking just differ in quantity more than anything. but getting in 2-300 clean carbs 6-7 meals and also with carb cutoffs approx 50-60 carbsfirst 3meals gym PWO shake and then whole food protein and carb meal a soon as i can after, i increase or decrease the proteiin and carbs those meals depending on what i shoot for, usually its like 80/80 doing hi pro, would even go up to 100 if i felt like i wasnt getting enough cals by then i have 250g of carbs and usually try to get my clean fats inthe last 2 meals but if still early ill wont have a mega PWO shake and eat 8-10oz chicken and rice and then have to more meals. still screwed cuz im taking slin around 6 if not 7 or 8 0ccasionally and eating at least 1-2 meals with fats and usually do that to slow down my digestion at night.


i gotta train much earlier on slin which isnt going to be an everyday option, or carb load after my workout at night which Ive switched and done low carb mod fat til preworkout where id have soemthing light with SOME carbs usually shake and fruit as i dont want to eat any fat within the few hours befoe taking humalog or hum R.... PWO chug a higher carb PWO shake add carbs to the meal after that and last meal see how i feel stick to protein plus veggies eating carbs only if necessary whcih i nevr really needed. I've dieted like this with success taking ina shake with 75g fast carbs then a meal soon asi can get it down 1-2 hr after another 75 g... works but makes yo feel kinda flat...

Either way i still noticed myself start retaining water or gaining fat regardless id stop as it didnt seem worth some extra size to have to eat super strict same bland meals and drugs just no slin. IMO either way im stuck eating fats at night a few hours after the slin and its not gonna totally clear or still digesting from the early day meals IMO some situation but vice versa im still digesting fats from lbreakfast up until the pre workout meal cutting it from that... while cutting fat from pre WO it worked to keep me gaining fat dieting like that taking in all my carbs PWO in a shake and meal cutting i didnt use slin either....

matter of fact i was able to tolerate 10iu slin with 60 whey iso and 60 idextrose gatorade whateva, even 50/50. never felt hypo at all, not sure what that means if anything aside from my protein ended up wasted and probably a noticeable amount converted to carbs if it was needed.

THINK SLIIN JUST DOESNT LIKE ME and VICE VERSA

for anyone like me who gains fat easily but allowed me to take in more carbs while staying leaner... id do 2iu GH am and PWO and began igf lr3 pwo 50 but was workign for a peptide co and getting it at cost from my friend who owned it as long as it was for personal use and started 100PWO and then to see its effects taken before workout 50pre workout 50 pwo.... it worked magic with GH for sure esp since i have never used GH with siin for more than a few weeks before i got paraanoid of gettting fat and stopped whether the softness was water and fat i tried everytthing to keep fat otu of my system while slin was active LOL.

right now im just looking to gain my size back and lose about 20lbs extra fat so aside from getting the diet dialed in i decided to just stick with GH to start so i could purchase the min amount direct from one of 2 well known quality suppliers and run 10iu day, was thinking maybe 10iu on training days and 6iu on my 2 off days.... anyone try blasting like that? since i want fat loss benefits not just gains i will take it in the am probably 33-50units am with 3 armour thyroid tabs. i seem to get mucch better fat loss... with armour combo

also realized you need to wait awhile before you eat or take any vitamins to get full efficacy of your t3 when reading and stuff or your thyroid med wont work near as well, im i correct about this i forget im 95%sure. correct me if im wrong, wish i had a bottle with an insert,.

Thing is as soon as i say im going to bump the GH up to approx double what i used to take.... i start thinking how im shortchanging myself on the GH when i know ill have the funds for a couple bottles of GH to simply use 3-4x weekly and it would suck if i didnt spend the few extra bucks for it to get synergistic effects at least comparables o to using slin.
so i see Lr3 on sale i think to myself how if im not taking slin, i should do the next best thing and use LR3 no? especially if im curious about the DES too and can try that after 6 weekn the lr3 which ive always gotten results from and have no doubt about the fact i will be satisfied with the results even just to selectively shuttle carbs to my muscles only as i can make sure I dont overdiet and negatively effect my recomposition cycle.

Is it just me or does LR3 not simply stop working all together but it works as a GDA much longer than its effectiveness at effecting gains and/or igf iincrease?



i havent seen many threads with posts about dosing for igf des though granted i was spending most of my time making sure i was getting good GH, but from what i read you DONT need to take it 3x per week to keep effects from fading before requiring a break since its identical to our natural igf or somethinng.... and didnt found very little involving its use in combination with hGH, mustly with other research peps which aside from igf havent cared for much as im happy enough being able to pay halfwhat i did for hGH when i did it with hgh few years ago and way more than 1/3rd cheaper than i was paying for kits before than even 1/4 cost after the early halfl of the past decade starting in 03 and beginning to peak in 05 and simply got worse til jins came out, i could find seros in bulk for 275-300, eventually the last bulk discount i ever got was 30 for 375, i stacked em in a pyramid and took a picture of em as i knew they were the last affordable seros i would ever see, I know someone with a script and asked if he was interesting in even sellign one and he wanted 5 bills. thing is he gets em for not a penny,... I used to use 4iu of sero per day all the time tried to take up to 6 but then id have to take sun off or if training 5 days on training days, or a 4 day ssplit id do it m-f.

i wish i had the money i spent as id take advantage the bulk discount i could get shelling out not even half of it on mexy's offer for 30, i can live with it not being perfect purity like US gh since i started using IP tabs and shots back in the day when he offered rocket fuel and 500ml or liter jugs, wish to god bought any test but his 200mg prop my quads are total scar tissues and unstickable as the depot just sits, last time i tried i put a pin in the spot next weeek pulled back and at least half the old injection to 3/4 had stilll not absorbed but it did turn white and milky and im sure would have gotten infected if i injected it once a week like people rotating sites usually do, point being dont shoot gear higher than 20% bb, 1 or 2%bb as pharm gear is 20bb max and really.9 ba.

sback on topic im guessing you take des everyday training or not, and i see guys taking it preworkout, reading that the des is more for attempting to induce hyperplasia increasing pump and while igf lr3 works its a better glucose disposal agent and is much longer acting.

Is the des effect that much different or will it still shuttle carbs into my muscle cells selectively just like lr3 did. IMO if it has a shorter half life and still works comparable to lr3, I think that would be great as it wont stop working, and the dose could be split into an AM dose and then dosed around workouts, AM to help selectively fill muscle cells and starve fat cells, and around the workout for gains and synergy with IGF as well as about 50% of my carb intake would probably be PWO shake and a protein plus carb meal 1-2 hr after soon as idont feel like puking. not sure how short atctingi itis that id need it pre and PWO or just either or.

clueless which ones best as i see every idea so far.


what i dont understand is if i took 100mcg igf lr3 only 4x weekly and des is suppsedly that much stronger hwo come i see doses daily equal or greater to my lr3 dose when id think one would be taking much much less reading it being 10x as strong. when i read that i start thinking either its like hgh frag and other peptides great in theory crap in real practical application.

OR what i worry about with GH, research peptides esp as a good friend no longer is in that biz i worry whether im gettting whati paid for. with peptides aas theres reputable GH guys who appear to be doing their best to put out a cheap quality product,

The only explanation i can think of guys all using more DES than LR3 even if it WAS REALLY CHEAP, I wouldnt see the logic of using a ton of it over the course of a month when you could take it in a dosage that someone more knowledgable than me could maybe tell you what a comparable dose to what your Lr3 dose you used is. then i figure out if i need to take it more than once per day to keep levels elevated if thats what i want and use it for an entire cycle like 12 weeks or something like that even longer to help retain muscle when you go off and maybe if its cheap to use up your dose at that point or add LR3 or some other peptide.

I cant see why guys would run 200mcg at a shot daily of DES though were regardless of price, especially if its approx 10 times as strong as lr3 dosing where they likemy friend who owned a peptide co ran 1mg per day and he didnt wake up with a gut gauranteeing him a part in the next TMNT movie, he also said it wasnt anything extroarddinary the brief period he did it compared to the 2-250mcg PWO he'd use.

another thing i dont get about DES being used in doses higher than Lr3 is wouldnt the potential sides be similar only reason id see using more than one used LR3 is if you have slowly increaded the dose and it hasnt done jack still. eithe that or someone is trying to rush bringing up a weak bodypart maybe.

Im also curious if DES has the same glucose disposal effects of lr3 any at all or what effects it has lr3 doesnt besides the fact it keeps working.i have a diabetic parent and grandparent and while id try humuin if i felt lean enough to, adding LR3 pwo 100mcg or 50mcg pre and 50mcg pwo thinking maybe if any was getting wasted somehow or bound due to using 100 at once splitting it in half might help my body make use of it better takign it with my meal an hr before the gym and after. Didnt notice much difference when your muscles are glycogen loaded the pump is there regardless of when the lr3 was taken that day

for anyone whose bodyfat is too high to be addding slin to GH for me igf lr3 PWO was a perfect replacement as far as results go i wish i coulld take it all year round to do that and be able to make use of more carbs ensuring they dont get shuttled into fat cells and get to eat extra carbs my body normally might store as fat without the repartitioning effect. i ate very clean to lose any fat i needed and eat clean when doing a lean bullk IE. DC style

cleaner than alot of friends eat the first 2 months of a contest diet before they are 8 weeks out and have to buckle down, while i have to stuck to 50 g of carbs per meal til my PWO rice, oats, yams, an apple when i have a shake with some fish oiil caps and a lil PB when having a shake sometimes, ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY keep my meals split either whre i have fats or carbs.. always protein of course... if im eating clean carbs on my higher carb day i wait til after PWO to eat fats, when i reduce my carbs cycling them down i usually keep them in pwo and meal after, and a light amount preworkout

one question is if LR3 is a better glycogen disposal agent IMO perfect for shuttling quick digesting carbs PWO and your PWO nutrition as i could see the diffference in my body within days i looked full harder and leaner even if it was just glycogen storage... i certainly would love a selective GDA/ repartitioning agent that i could take year round PWO, that is one reason i could understand using more DES if that effect started at i higher dose....


obviously one approach would be to do what worked in the past first and se how the extra hGH works since there rest would be no different and since lr3 stops working and id need to switch. But if DES had GDA effects close to LR3 id prob try it first just cuz im a curious goerge monkey.

, otherwise id be sensible run some lr3 with the higher GH ssoon as i am sure ive got same quality lr3 i used to get, and see how doubling the GH works, and once i need to stop the igf lr3 after 6 weeks or so, go onto the DES and dsee what difference the effect is. Running them together would make it much harder to know how the DES differed from the IGF lr3, and if i liked the DES after my lr3 break i could run them together with the hGH, and would certainly consider if taking all together to cut the LR3 dose down to 75 or 50mcg, on the DES i dont now where to start what dose and frequency would compare to the LR3 50-100mcg PWO mwf or for me m/t/th/f. I HAVE A FEELING ITS PROBABLY NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE and may as well stick which whichever works best if its lr3 use the des equal on off if one wanted, im done confusing myself Lol.

IM assuming id take it daily multiple times daily 2x like hGH at least often as it has a much shorter half life ive heard and if it has any similar partitioning effects id wanna get some active in my body in the AM to fill my muscles during my pro carb meals til night and take the 2nd dose at some point around my workout, but havent seen a set reccomendation on how to get the most from it like the training PWO only lr3 or when itrained 5 days put my bodyparts i wanted to improve most on m/w/f when id do the igf.

Just confused myself more asking the same thing 10 things 4 diff ways, what to spend a sunday evening LOL
 

ajdonutz

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Well... your post was wayyyyy too long for me to read.. but based on the thread title, difference between the 2 is that des is about 20x more potent than lr3 and only has a 15-20 minute half life and lr3 is something like a day
 

dooduu2

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:eek: WHOA!!!! I tried to read it bro i really did... My A D D took control after the first paragraph and then was mesmorized by ajordana's avatar.
 

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