Fortitude Muscle Rounds vs DC Rest Pause

[Dens228]

I'm curious of the pro's and cons of the muscle rounds vs the rest pause....
My thoughts are the rounds give a bit more volume (depending on your rep scheme for the rest pause) and a bit less stress due to one failure point vs three.
Maybe a little less fatiguing over time.
Regarding positive results.......I'm not sure they make a difference.

 

[Fleezy]

Basically different variations of the same idea


I always preferred “muscle rounds”

I’ve found that I’ve essentially been able to extend a set pretty far past failure by implementing this method - even more so than what I could achieve with the DC method

 

[Gunsmith]

Ive found that i can get a little better intensity out of muscle rounds as ive gotten older before i need a "deload" period , if i try DC training now my elbows and shoulders are killing me by the third week then im fucked

 

[BLKGUY2006]

are you referring to muscle rounds going from one say back movement to another then another etc? Like what Milos does with some of the guys he trains.

 

[grammo13]

are you referring to muscle rounds going from one say back movement to another then another etc? Like what Milos does with some of the guys he trains.

Those are giant sets. Muscle rounds, if I remember correctly, is 6 sets of 4 with 10 seconds rest, taking the last set to failure.

 

[comedycentral]

Ive found that i can get a little better intensity out of muscle rounds as ive gotten older before i need a "deload" period , if i try DC training now my elbows and shoulders are killing me by the third week then im fucked

I’ve been trying Doggcraps higher reps for old farts basically. So my rest pause set would look like 14+6+3 ish

 

[qbkilla]

I'm not familiar with executing muscle rounds but know they are similar to myo reps which I do.

I'd say the main difference...Mr...myo reps you do not take the activation or mini sets to failure. Rest pause you do. I personally prefer traditional to for chest/back or movements like dip machine. For isolation where I can't count on being able to make regular progress (side/rear delts) I prefer myo reps but to failure or drop sets are my favorite.

IMO giant sets and drop sets are also similar as intensity techniques.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Not the same. Anyone who says this isn’t doing them right.

RP is basically 3 failure sets in one, but more of an intensity technique.
MR is a way to extend the pivotal reps of a set. You’re only going to all out failure once.

I would never compare RP to say 3 sets of bicep curls. It’s more of an intensity technique. But I would compare MR to say 3 sets of bicep curls, you’re just cutting out a lot of the trash reps (those 1-8 reps that aren’t fatiguing at allll)

A better question would be MR compared to Myo Reps. Those are very similar. You are doing a certain amount of reps, not to failure, small break, more reps, getting closer and closer.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Not the same. Anyone who says this isn’t doing them right.

RP is basically 3 failure sets in one, but more of an intensity technique.
MR is a way to extend the pivotal reps of a set. You’re only going to all out failure once.

I would never compare RP to say 3 sets of bicep curls. It’s more of an intensity technique. But I would compare MR to say 3 sets of bicep curls, you’re just cutting out a lot of the trash reps (those 1-8 reps that aren’t fatiguing at allll)

A better question would be MR compared to Myo Reps. Those are very similar. You are doing a certain amount of reps, not to failure, small break, more reps, getting closer and closer.

Exactly what I was going to say Muscle Rounds are cluster sets most akin to Myo reps

The muscle round from Fortitude are 6 sets of 4 with, 10 seconds rest between each and only one actual failure point within the 6 sets. If you hit it early lower the weight and complete the remaining sets, start with a lower weight next time. If you hit it way late or not at all, its too light. I like to strive for hitting failure at the end of set 4, or 5. If I dont hit failure at the end of 4th rep on set 6, I take that set to failure with additional reps.

Myo Reps is similar, but instead uses a single activation set with a weight lighter than your 1RM, 45-60%. Take it about 1 to 2 reps shy of failure. 10-15 second rest, and then start to do clusters of sets 4-6 reps (number of reps in the cluster will hinge on the exercise) and just keep doing mini-sets every 10-15 seconds until you hit failure then you are done. Myoreps are auto regulating so your body tells you how much work do it. Feel like shit, hit failure early, do less work. Feel great, takes a good number of sets to hit failure, do more work. Take what your body gives you. Some guys do not like that, they like the rigidity of a targeted number and pushing to get that number at all costs. In order to use autoregulation to its full capacity you must be very in tune with your effort. A lot (not all) of guys have a tough time realizing how many more reps they can get on exercise when they think they are done.

The major difference between these and DC is that DC is to failure on every set on purpose.

@homonunculus would have the best answer to this since he wrote FT and was the DC guy for a long time before that.

 

[Dens228]

The muscle round from Fortitude are 6 sets of 4 with, 10 seconds rest between each and only one actual failure point within the 6 sets. If you hit it early lower the weight and complete the remaining sets, start with a lower weight next time. If you hit it way late or not at all, its too light. I like to strive for hitting failure at the end of set 4, or 5. If I dont hit failure at the end of 4th rep on set 6, I take that set to failure with additional reps.



@homonunculus would have the best answer to this since he wrote FT and was the DC guy for a long time before that.

And if you fail before the 6th set you remove weight and finish the remaining sets of four reps WITHOUT hitting failure on those remaining sets.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

And if you fail before the 6th set you remove weight and finish the remaining sets of four reps WITHOUT hitting failure on those remaining sets.

thanks, man, I forgot to mention that

for anyone else

Scott has his own forum, and pretty much every possible question about the program and variations / set ups, tips etc. has been asked. If you cannot find it he will answer it, and do so in such depth we do not deserve lol. I don't want mods to get upset thinking I am promoting links to another site, but it is a great resource if you are interested in this training style, and Scott is a member here as well.

Integrative Bodybuilding - Fortitude Training™ - Program Info, Basics, Testimonals

 

[BLKGUY2006]

Those are giant sets. Muscle rounds, if I remember correctly, is 6 sets of 4 with 10 seconds rest, taking the last set to failure.

Oh ok. Been in training 28 years and not heard of that one. I’ll have to read about it and maybe try it out. Would definitely be good if crunched for time.
Thanks for sharing

 

[homonunculus]

Thanks for the mention, Fellas!

I can't speak really to Myoreps, as I've only got a general understanding of them and haven't employed them during my training (or with clients).

I've got a video on YT on how to do a Fortitude Training Muscle Round, which should be easy to find with a search. [I'm trying to be minimally self-promoting, so I'll leave it to others to find that vid. I finally had to put that out there b/c it's VERY rare that someone gets the nuances of doing a MR the way I suggest with FT. It's not terribly complicated at all once you get the hang of it and start to grasp the reasons I constructed it as I did, e.g. that you can vary to relative load you're using by deciding approximately where in the MR your (singular) failure point would occur (earlier failure = heavier load and vice versa), that MRs lend themselves to unlateral work without having to count rest intervals (you just alternate continuously), it's a way to avoid accumulating CNS taxation by limiting to just one failure point, but accumulate more "effective reps" while keeping volume consistent (and thus more tightly controlled by always doing 6 sets in each MR), etc.]

 

[Isovet]

Thanks for the mention, Fellas!

I can't speak really to Myoreps, as I've only got a general understanding of them and haven't employed them during my training (or with clients).

I've got a video on YT on how to do a Fortitude Training Muscle Round, which should be easy to find with a search. [I'm trying to be minimally self-promoting, so I'll leave it to others to find that vid. I finally had to put that out there b/c it's VERY rare that someone gets the nuances of doing a MR the way I suggest with FT. It's not terribly complicated at all once you get the hang of it and start to grasp the reasons I constructed it as I did, e.g. that you can vary to relative load you're using by deciding approximately where in the MR your (singular) failure point would occur (earlier failure = heavier load and vice versa), that MRs lend themselves to unlateral work without having to count rest intervals (you just alternate continuously), it's a way to avoid accumulating CNS taxation by limiting to just one failure point, but accumulate more "effective reps" while keeping volume consistent (and thus more tightly controlled by always doing 6 sets in each MR), etc.]

Wow.. this is a name I haven’t seen in a long time. Good to see old guys still here

 

[buck]

I find they tend to both end up with about the same results of rme. But like most things adapton can soon happen.

 

[Delt123]

I prefer Restpauses. The objective is pretty simple and brainless: do it until you can’t, rest a bit, do it again, rest a bit, go one more time. Do more next time.

MR require some gauging and lots of counting (like how MR mini sets you’ve done already). On leg movements like smith squats or leg presses you’re messed up afterwards though, I often was standing outside the gym on the verge of puking.

 

[qbkilla]

I prefer Restpauses. The objective is pretty simple and brainless: do it until you can’t, rest a bit, do it again, rest a bit, go one more time. Do more next time.

MR require some gauging and lots of counting (like how MR mini sets you’ve done already). On leg movements like smith squats or leg presses you’re messed up afterwards though, I often was standing outside the gym on the verge of puking.

I like both rest pause and myo/Mr type. But prefer rest pause because each mini set is taken to failure. But when I do myo reps, I take them to failure too. I usually use them for arms/delts so see no need to worry about over doing it. I've never had any issues with "overtraining" when taking each mini set to failure. Sure the drawback is you may not be able to get as many reps the next set, but you got more the previous set. I think intensity...or at least "hard training" is more important then pulling more total reps (volume). For heavy compounds I'd worry more but not concerned with "frying my cns" as many put it while myo repping lateral raises, cable curls, tricep press etc.

 

[flex22]

I’ve used all these techniques at multiple times in my lifting journey. The DC rest-pause was my first intensifier and I loved the log and constantly trying to beat it. After a couple years and a lot of reading of Dr. Scott Stevenson and his fortitude program i found something I loved even more. But I learned the hard way , you have to listen to your body when it’s time for some rest/recovery/off time. No matter what technique I used I always made sure I was on top of everything I ate and put in my body.
As I got older and was still pushing it like I was at a younger age I had to find out the hard way my body doesn’t recover nearly as fast and I ended up having a pec tear , bicep tear, minor lat tear, and tricep tear. When I tore my tricep and tendon it was the worst of all injuries and surgeries. So I had to start lifting without the ego, and using iso type training aka training each body part limb solo so the other side didn’t compensate for the other side. Nothing stops me and my advice to any and everyone is constantly pursuing knowledge and finding what works for you.

 

[homonunculus]

I'm curious of the pro's and cons of the muscle rounds vs the rest pause....
My thoughts are the rounds give a bit more volume (depending on your rep scheme for the rest pause) and a bit less stress due to one failure point vs three.
Maybe a little less fatiguing over time.
Regarding positive results.......I'm not sure they make a difference.

Dens,

Sorry I didn't come back to address your original question here!

Yes, you nailed the essential differences.

The negative impact of truly reaching failure varies per to person, like most everything, so for someone who really gets whacked by the last true failure rep (vs. just 1 RIR or even just 0 RIR), it might be possible to accumulate a good number (perhaps more compared to doing an RP set) of "effective reps" relative to the negative impact on the CNS, etc. by doing MR's vs. doing RP sets.

OTOH, if someone really doesn't get much novel stimulus out of anything further from failure than 1 or 0RIR (where you complete the rep, but the next one is a sure failure attempt), RP's might be the way to go. (This might be the case for someone who's more advanced perhaps, who just needs to train closer to failure in general to create a growth stimulus.)

The post-failure sets of an MR offer a couple things that might help some folks out:
-Obviously the chance for more "effective reps" (per above) and in particular, if someone pays close attention, the possibility to make those sets (if failing in the 4th or 5th set of the MR) REALLY effective (really hard) by choosing a weight that they can JUST barely get the remaining reps with (without failing).
-Many folks (myself included) tend to get a bit sloppy when pushing for new PRs (beating the log book) so the post-failure sets allow (this is what I prescribe with the MRs) the chance to re-focus on a good mind muscle connection and re-affirm what the best execution is to target the intended muscle. (This can make a huge difference for some folks: Dropping the weigh so the execution and mind-muscle connection is as perfectly focused as possible.)


Also, if someone can get away, for example, with 2MR's for a muscle group, but only 1 RP (d/t the failure points / impact on recovery) there's potentially an advantage in having the variety of two exercises, as the recruitment / activation patterns are different for different exercises and this can make for better distribution of the stimulus across the available motor units, heads of the muscle or muscle itself (e.g., when using 2 vs. 1 movement for the pecs).

Psychologically, the mindset of an MR is a bit different too and easier for some who just don't resonate with a "PR or Die" mindset that makes for REALLY good success with DC training. You start the MR and only do 4reps, etc. so it's pretty easy for the first couple sets and then you're psychologically warmed up to go after it. (In other words, as long as you DO get after it during the set, starting a MR doesn't mean you have to get (as) adrenalized when you start the set. Some folks just don't dig that way of training all the time, over long periods, so MRs more so a way to ease into a "set" (an MR) that ends up, especially for some exercises, being an absolutely brutal effort.)

-S

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

I prefer Restpauses. The objective is pretty simple and brainless: do it until you can’t, rest a bit, do it again, rest a bit, go one more time. Do more next time.

MR require some gauging and lots of counting (like how MR mini sets you’ve done already). On leg movements like smith squats or leg presses you’re messed up afterwards though, I often was standing outside the gym on the verge of puking.

That's why I love them, you nailed it. Rest Pause Sets are simple and brutal, they don't require me to think, just lift. That's why I love them. Really easy to keep track. I write down my three numbers per set between each pause. Or I aim for 12-20 total reps, no matter how many pauses I need. Lots of ways to play with it.

I am not really good with the terminology. I always thought that Dr. Scotts' Muscle Rounds and DC's Sets, or things like Widowmakers are also Rest-Pause Work, just refining it a bit more.