HGH Questions

[Steve123]

Morning, First, if there is a post where this is all covered and I missed it, sorry and please point me in the right direction.

I'm new to GH. I wanted to use it for Fat Loss and Anti Aging benefits. Background: I'm 53 and on TRT at 100mg EW Test CYP. I'm overweight and trying to basically get back in shape and stay there.

My general findings are that 1 - 2 IU's is a good place to start for someone my age. However, as I peel this Onion further it seems that it's never quite so simple. For example: Do you take it in the AM, take it at night, avoid carbs immediately after pinning it, avoid heavy training after taking it?

Realizing that there are no hard and fast rules to anything, would I be over simplifying the whole thing to just start like this: 1.5 IU every other day; first thing in the AM; Light fasted cardio; follow up a little later with a protein predominant meal; eat more balanced later in the day (according to diet); and, then train at night (e.g., I read that ventricular hypertrophy can be a risk when training heavy with HG on a consistent basis)?

I would like to create a synergy between the TRT and GH. Goal is not bodybuilding.

Again, sorry if this is 'old hat' and I'm wasting everyone's time. I know I'm late to the party.

 

[Shadow Project]

Timing depending on goals, morning for fat loss, HGH replacement therapy would be right before bed. Ventricular hypertrophy can and will always happen, esp when using anabolics, and I havent seen any evidence on the difference between timing for hGH.

 

[Steve123]

Thanks Shadow. I definitely already have LVH (Left Ventricular Hypertrophy)/ The Cardiologist told me that it's from the combination of heavy strength training and track work (sprinting) that I've done. I guess it's benign but anytime you hear the term "heart condition", you don't hear the modification ("benign") as well. Just wanting to play it safe. I'm thinking mabye 2 IU in the AM.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks Shadow. I definitely already have LVH (Left Ventricular Hypertrophy)/ The Cardiologist told me that it's from the combination of heavy strength training and track work (sprinting) that I've done. I guess it's benign but anytime you hear the term "heart condition", you don't hear the modification ("benign") as well. Just wanting to play it safe. I'm thinking mabye 2 IU in the AM.

Neither heavy resistance nor high intensity anaerobic activities cause LVH. Androgens, however, do. If your doctor said you have a benign heart condition elicited by these activities (without taking androgens), you have what may be termed an "athlete's heart," marked by some conduction delays and adaptive morphological changes. But not to be confused with LVH.

The association with GH excess and LVH can only be inferred from acromegalic populations (remember, this is a very small % of the population exposed to very high levels [i.e., 20x normal endogenous levels is commonplace, though something approximating 7IU daily is fairly representative] for very long periods, i.e., years). In these populations, there has been an observation of fairly rapid reduction of LVH (this is in acromegalics) after suppression of GH hypersecretion.

There is no contribution of resistance training nor intense anaerobic exercise, to LVH. Whether bodybuilding rhGH dosages (>6IU daily) may contribute to LVH (worsened by the use of AAS) is IMO far more likely than not, but has not been a clinical observation yet made. But there's no significant contribution of resistance training to the risk.

 

[Steve123]

Thanks Type-IIx! My Cardiologist actually did refer to my condition as exactly what you mentioned "Athletes Heart". On my record it indicates LVH. I didn't know that AH was a technical term so I didn't give that much thought.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks Type-IIx! My Cardiologist actually did refer to my condition as exactly what you mentioned "Athletes Heart". On my record it indicates LVH. I didn't know that AH was a technical term so I didn't give that much thought.

OK, we're on the same page. The adaptive morphological changes in an "athlete's heart" include increased left ventricular cavity size, wall thickness, and mass. The conduction and morphological alterations are actually likely beneficial (unless intense training, usually seen with endurance athletes, continues to the point where the athlete begins to experience arrhythmias) versus the maladaptive (though reversible in the short-term) LVH seen with AAS use (unless AAS use continues to the point where surgery or some intervention is necessary).

 

[Type-IIx]

For what it's worth 1.5IU every other day is quite low as it's about 50% of a 22 - 28 y/o healthy male's endogenous GH levels (~1.5IU daily). Women have higher levels of circulating endogenous GH than their age-matched male counterparts (this is surprising to many, but is largely because they are resistant to GH/have diminished IGF-I due to IGFBP-1 increasing due to estrogens).

 

[Steve123]

interesting. Seems that anecdotal evidence is highly variable in terms of how low doses impact older guys. It also seems like a double edged sword - not unlike any medication. Meaning, higher IGF-1 can help but at a certain point harm someone that is 50+. Seem like a good game plan might be to take some baseline blood work, start on something like 2IU, and then perform follow up blood work to check levels. Maybe keep an eye on blood sugar as well. As mentioned earlier, I'm not trying to grow a third leg or a set of Antlers; I'm just trying to gain the youthful benefits and some accelerated fat loss. Thanks

 

[blackjack]

interesting. Seems that anecdotal evidence is highly variable in terms of how low doses impact older guys. It also seems like a double edged sword - not unlike any medication. Meaning, higher IGF-1 can help but at a certain point harm someone that is 50+. Seem like a good game plan might be to take some baseline blood work, start on something like 2IU, and then perform follow up blood work to check levels. Maybe keep an eye on blood sugar as well. As mentioned earlier, I'm not trying to grow a third leg or a set of Antlers; I'm just trying to gain the youthful benefits and some accelerated fat loss. Thanks

I've been on 2iu/day for almost a year, and I would describe my results exactly how you describe what you are looking for fwiw

 

[Brock456]

interesting. Seems that anecdotal evidence is highly variable in terms of how low doses impact older guys. It also seems like a double edged sword - not unlike any medication. Meaning, higher IGF-1 can help but at a certain point harm someone that is 50+. Seem like a good game plan might be to take some baseline blood work, start on something like 2IU, and then perform follow up blood work to check levels. Maybe keep an eye on blood sugar as well. As mentioned earlier, I'm not trying to grow a third leg or a set of Antlers; I'm just trying to gain the youthful benefits and some accelerated fat loss. Thanks

I’m a little younger than you but I’ll be starting 2IU soon as well for mostly same reasons.

 

[Steve123]

Thanks Brock and BlackJack. Good luck with those doses.

 

[Steve123]

Does anyone have an opinion as to the potential effectiveness of substituting the low dose HG with something like GHRP 2 and CJC No DAC once per day in the AM? Seems as if the later would give a good pulse, similar to the 2IU, and like the single day dose of GH, better replicate the normal pattern. Just throwing darts at the board here. Any insight would be great.