high rep help (duped on beg board)

[lyndonlawrence]

I got no help on beginner board so I post here. sorry and thanks
so I started more high rep than high weight sets
question- how do I know when to quit my first sets to have enough energy and strength for the other sets? If I am going to lift til fail say on flat bench , will that leave me with enough umph then to move to incline press ?

 

[ajdos]

Im not sure how to answer that. But the first thing that comes to mind is that you will just have to challenge yourself and push the limits. And once you establish what exactly those limits are, push for progression from there.
But that something you have to figure out...no one can really do that for you.
For me personally, I would start with a weight I can do 20 reps with and the reps 17-20 are just agonizing and difficult to complete.

 

[nategeezy82]

Don't know what your recover ability is like because I don't know your lifestyle. I would do a couple of max effort sets just to start and then work your way up from there.

 

[Walking Beast]

I would reccomend going through the full range of rep ranges, but not one rep maxes in the early stage. They really arent needed for building muscle. You can do them later once you have some experience with your technique and more power. They are a good mental test but dont offer any other real benefit unless your a competing powerlifter.

You should hit failure on all your exercises, aside for warm ups. If you are not pushing yourself to the end I would not expect much results. 12-15 rep range was good for me in the earlier years, but everyone responds differently. You probably dont have enough strength and size now to really make use of a 100 rep set. You didnt specify how high the reps you are using are though. The 5 to 20 rep ranges would be good for starting out in my opinion. Once the reps get too low your form gets sacrificed and like with the one rep, can lead to injury if your core isnt strong enough.

If you find your muscle is too exhausted to move decent weight on inclines, after flats, then simply rotate your order weekly, or if you train chest twice a week, have an incline session first in the week, then flat second. Reverse this each week. You can also focus on one lift for a while then switch order and hit PRs on the other. Inclines will build more chest mass then flat work in my experience. Both are worth including.

Dont worry about the weight though. When the muscle is beat up it wont know the difference. Try to hit it as hard as possible til the muscle stops contracting, each set.

Keep records of your highest reps and weights for each exercise, so that you can continually get stronger in all movements. Even if its lat pulldowns. Keep a record for each weight and reps. Like 150 for how many reps you got, 180, etc. Then each session you can always strive to better all previous lifts. Most only focus on a certain lift. If you do this with all your lifts you will get stronger all around.

Make sure your volume is high enough as well. Most dont do enough work. You can add some methods to increase intensity later, like dropsets, rest pause, etc. In the beginning I would take enough rest between sets to give each set a strong attempt, and try to break personal records each session.

I would do a minimum of 12 sets for bicep, triceps, chest, shoulders, and 15 for legs and back. Thats 12 for each muscle, 15 for back and legs. This was the minimum I started with. You have to push yourself to the end and not back out of the sets. So take them as far as you can. Dont worry too much about your rep ranges, concern yourself more with your intensity and how much you are tearing up the muscle, and progressing strength wise.

Unless you are overweight with a slow metabolism then eating will need to be massive. Constant force feeding and liquid when you cant down solid food. Milk works very well. Your calories will need to be high. Protein doesnt need to be extreme. 200 is good for a beginning. I stuck with 200 for most of the size I gained, but I upped my carbs and calories alot. The calories is what will really make you grow. High protein without the rest and you will just lose size.


To summarize. Every set thats not a warm up set, should be a record attempt. As you are pyramiding up in weight each set, try to break a record on each. On the way back down you can try as well, but its less likely at that point. However, your intensity never should diminish just because your body may not hit records. Sometimes you will anyway, when you least expect it. So much of it is what you believe and your attitude and agression prior. Hitting records is good for a few reasons. Itll make sure your intensity each set is maximum. You dont go through the fucking motions when you are trying to destroy certain numbers. Of course you wont progress every day, its impossible. If you are performing each set like a life and death struggle then you will be learning and utilizing the intensity that will carry you to much higher levels.

Increasing your strength on EVERYTHING you do will make you that much more powerful all around. Moving more weight over time with heavy eating will lead to more muscle. Strength and size are not directly related, as I have gotten much stronger and stayed the same size at many periods. This was due to not eating enough. The muscle can become more efficient without new size. If you are taking a broad rep range to failure on all exercises and with enough volume, then your intensity will be right however. Hitting different ranges gives you a broader range of stimulation.

I have always wanted power and size. Strength was always my main attribute, but I never wanted to be massive if I didnt have the strength to back it up. There are many that have the size but are very weak for that size. If you push your limits and push yourself hard every set, you shouldnt have that problem however.


KILLL THAT SHIT !!

 

[AshopRep]

I'd go to failure on everything.

 

[Cerberus777]

If you are new to high reps, you lack the CNS connection to do it very long. You will adapt and progress quickly. Its the same in the opposite direction if you're alwas working in the 12 rep range your 1rep max wont improve much.

 

[heavyhitter]

I'd go to failure on everything.

I'm the same way. I can't wrap my brain around the idea of stopping when I know I could do more

 

[Walking Beast]

Thats what I like to see!


KILLIN EM N GRILLIN EM !!

 

[lyndonlawrence]

sure thank you a lot

copy and pasted to my phone to work in at gym . thanks again. im 53 and startd in October then tore rotator in November so I am interested in reps over weight so I can closely monitor any danger areas. like when close to failure I have felt some sharp tricep strain and I stop, relax and go back at it. I work alone and sometimes forget to push hard but I try hard and regularly.

 

[Tom]

Training to failure is over-rated and will burn you out quickly. I get very good results stopping a rep or 2 before failure and do 5 sets of 15 on decline press. Plenty left in the tank then to move on to dips for 5 sets of 20. I use the same weights for long periods of time and continue to make improvements in my physique. There are many different methods to train but this is my preference.

 

[PitbullTank]

Training to failure is over-rated and will burn you out quickly..

LOL... says WHOOO?!?!? Sure, I would agree its a lot SAFER for older individuals with injuries and shit... but for young healthy guys to progress, I don't agree that its the most effective way at all... I just watched JM do an ultra past failure Bulgarian squat set video... is he burned out? DC, BIGA, and Phil, which are some of the most well accomplished BBers and trainers on this site rec FAILURE every set... smiles and bboy hit failure... there programs are "over rated"? These athletes are/were burned out? :star-w:rs

 

[PitbullTank]

copy and pasted to my phone to work in at gym . thanks again. im 53 and startd in October then tore rotator in November so I am interested in reps over weight so I can closely monitor any danger areas. like when close to failure I have felt some sharp tricep strain and I stop, relax and go back at it. I work alone and sometimes forget to push hard but I try hard and regularly.

TB500/curcumin...research it.... are you doing your rotator cuff exercises still? Are you warming up your shoulders very well, stretching after your workout, and doing any type of therapy after training like ice/heat/etc?

 

[ajdos]

LOL... says WHOOO?!?!? Sure, I would agree its a lot SAFER for older individuals with injuries and shit... but for young healthy guys to progress, I don't agree that its the most effective way at all... I just watched JM do an ultra past failure Bulgarian squat set video... is he burned out? DC, BIGA, and Phil, which are some of the most well accomplished BBers and trainers on this site rec FAILURE every set... smiles and bboy hit failure... there programs are "over rated"? These athletes are/were burned out? :star-w:rs

Agreed, Im older and unassisted and I still push til I drop, and then some.
The body adapts, thats the whole point.
The guys you see achieve max muscularity all push to the limit, and mentally if I stopped I would feel like a punk.

 

[flexdurden]

Agreed, Im older and unassisted and I still push til I drop, and then some.
The body adapts, thats the whole point.
The guys you see achieve max muscularity all push to the limit, and mentally if I stopped I would feel like a punk.

I'm right with you and Pit on this... I have a hard time not going to failure and that is just my mentality. Knowing that, I don't train with a lot of volume so that I can recover and hit it again as soon as possible.

Training to failure is is only one aspect of a program... from that you vary the frequency and volume to account for recovery and individual training capacity.

Is failure needed, no, but in that came you'll have different amounts of volume per muscle group and a different frequency that you hit each muscle to account for that.

To go back to the OP, if you are a bodybuilder, you goal is to stimulate as many muscle fibers as you can and if you fatigue your chest on the first exercise, on the second exercise you will recruit additional muscle fibers as the first ones reach fatigue going through your set. Don't look at it solely as I am not able to lift as much, but how well you are stimulating the muscle.

 

[PitbullTank]

I'm right with you and Pit on this... I have a hard time not going to failure and that is just my mentality. Knowing that, I don't train with a lot of volume so that I can recover and hit it again as soon as possible.

Training to failure is is only one aspect of a program... from that you vary the frequency and volume to account for recovery and individual training capacity.

Is failure needed, no, but in that came you'll have different amounts of volume per muscle group and a different frequency that you hit each muscle to account for that.

To go back to the OP, if you are a bodybuilder, you goal is to stimulate as many muscle fibers as you can and if you fatigue your chest on the first exercise, on the second exercise you will recruit additional muscle fibers as the first ones reach fatigue going through your set. Don't look at it solely as I am not able to lift as much, but how well you are stimulating the muscle.

I would defienetley agree WHILE INJURED and/or recovering from injury that failure is not best... but just blanket statement that failure is over rated and burn out? I don't agree at all

 

[flexdurden]

I would defienetley agree WHILE INJURED and/or recovering from injury that failure is not best... but just blanket statement that failure is over rated and burn out? I don't agree at all

Completely agree with you 100%

 

[Tom]

I would defienetley agree WHILE INJURED and/or recovering from injury that failure is not best... but just blanket statement that failure is over rated and burn out? I don't agree at all

I'll be turning 60 next month and I have no major complaints with my joints or injuries. Every single person I know who has trained the way you advocate is done .Not one of them is able to go to the gym anymore because their bodies are shot. Knees, shoulders, lower backs and elbows cannot take that kind of pounding into one's 50's and 60's. For most of the guys training to failure and maximum intensity I guarantee the gym will be a memory when they get into their senior years.

 

[PitbullTank]

I'll be turning 60 next month and I have no major complaints with my joints or injuries. Every single person I know who has trained the way you advocate is done .Not one of them is able to go to the gym anymore because their bodies are shot. Knees, shoulders, lower backs and elbows cannot take that kind of pounding into one's 50's and 60's. For most of the guys training to failure and maximum intensity I guarantee the gym will be a memory when they get into their senior years.

I would agree with you here... it is much safer way of training, no doubt...

 

[GS]

I am 44 years old and i have to go day by day. One day you might see me stop my sets a few reps short, the next time i will go to or beyond failure .
Train the hardest that day but be smart as you can for them days when you can't.

 

[Walking Beast]

Was this too much today guys?

Did I overdo it?



Arms and 15 mins cardio (78 set routine with sets lasting over 5 mins, 11 sets without rest, and a 300 lb pressdown PR with 30 reps)


Fucking volume rampage today. Im pretty sure thats a PR for most sets for arms in a single session. Mostly all to failure but some exceptions during the dropsets. Normally now I do 40-50 sets per arm session. Twice a week.

I may only train arms once this week, and the motivation of taking tommorrow off is good too. training every other day.

I really thought intra workout supplements were fucking bullshit. I just assumed since Ive always used very little supplements and only a few worked for me.

But today I used the Xtend aminos, 2 scoops during training, in 32 oz liquid. My muscles must would not fucking fatigue. The muscle endurance was insane today. Normally by the time I get to 40 or 50 sets to failure the quality of the pump is just gone. Today I felt like I couldve hit over 100 sets, but my wrist was getting that sharp pain and nerve itching. So I was happy with around 80 sets. It looks like this shit really works, because this is the first time Ive done that much volume on arms in a single session.

Wrists were not super bad today with wrapping that shit lately. Will likely feel it while im not in the gym.

Was very light headed due to my supplements running through me, couldnt get out of the house. So I was very low on fuel by the time I trained.

100 mg tramadol pre workout with 5 grams creatine and 2-4 grams beta alanine added

2 scoops Xtend during training. I think I will use 2 scoops on my other days and see what happens. The volume may get extreme if this is any indication. Due to the way I train I can really tell when a supplement is doing something.

Next session will go towards 40 reps with the 300 lb stack. I cannot use 400 or more because I cant get any more weight on the stack. And im stuck with very specific exercises that dont fuck with my joints.

Thats why I hit records on very uncommon movements. But nothing Ive ever done was normal.

These otc supps have been giving me an extremely good boost towards hitting my old size records, and strength is coming up nicely. PRs are rare now because I train for size now. But I can still hit different types of PRs, like a volume record today, etc. Theres alot of ways to keep shit rollin

Tommorrow I think will be off. Next day is either legs or back most likely

Sharp pain in neck and trap left side, which makes sense with 2 ruptured disks in my cervical area alone. Didnt end up being an issue. Wrist pain but felt pretty good while I was in there.

Biceps I kept much lighter because they are very tender today:


(227 lbs after meal and shitting liquid for a while. Not bad though considering my shitty eating the last 3 days. I think mixing liquid aminos with milk was what messed up my stomach)

Curved Bar Pressdowns

Kilograms unless noted otherwise

no rest til line

35x100
65x40
95x20 (this is the 200-210 lb stack)

-----

No rest til line

300x30 (PR, see video)
45x15 alt db curls
----------------

No rest til line

See video

300x20 (pressdowns again)

Straight bar pressdowns

95x20 (kilograms again)
65x20
50x20
45x15 alt db curls

Curved bar pressdowns

95x10 Kilos
65x10
57x10
---------

Not complete failure on some of the sets due to wrists


No rest til line

300 lbs x15 (curved bar pressdowns for these)
255 lbs x20
95 kilos x10
72x10
57x10
45x15 alt db curls

Straight bar pressdowns

95 kilo x15-20
72x10
65x10
57x10
35x15 alt db curls
----------

That was 11 sets straight without rest. The 8 set superset took around 5 mins, so this one was longer Im sure. That type of training tears shit up without going super heavy.

The way I train has always built an extreme muscle endurance along with the ability to hit high reps with heavy weight, which leads to very high one rep maxes as well. I dont fuck with those anymore really



Alt db curls

35x15

No rest til line

Spider curls on incline bench

55x8
40x10 alt db curls
35x10 incline db curls
80x10 cambered bar curl

-----------

Spider curls with incline db curls is a great super set cuz you can just turn around on the bench. Spider curls are chest supported, arms hanging, incline db curls your back is on the bench

Concentration db curls

55x8 both arms

no rest til line

70x5 left arm, 70x2 right arm
80x10 cambered bar curl
------------

Alt db curls

35x10 (alot of these sets are slow motion style)

Curved bar pressdowns

no rest til line

Kilograms for all these pressdowns

95x50
72x20
57x10-20
45x10 alt db curls
45x5 db hammer curl
------------------------

No rest til line

curved bar pressdowns

255x30
95 kilos x15
72x10
57x10
45x10 alt db curl
-----------------------

Curved bar pressdowns

no rest til line

300 lbs x10
255 lb x10
95 kilos x10-15
72x10
57x10
45x10-15 alt db curls (pounds)
---------------

No rest til line

These were either straight bar pressdowns or curved bar, I didnt list

kilograms

95x30
72x10
57x20
45x8 alt db curls
80x13 cambered bar curl
45x5 alt db curls (pounds for all curls)

curved or straight bar pressdowns (the opposite of the first pressdowns)

95 kilos x20
72x10
57x10
----------


Straight bar pressdowns

no rest til line

kilos

95x20
72x10
57x15
45x8-10 alt db curls
---------------

No rest til line

curved bar pressdowns

kilos

95x10
72x10
57x20
45x5 alt db curls
35x10-15 alt db curls
100x3 cambered bar curl
35x10 alt db curl
----------------

No rest til line

40x7 alt db curls, super slow
40x5 hammer db curls
-------------------

no rest til line

straight or curved bar pressdowns

kilos

95x10
72x20
57x10-20
45x5 very slow alt db curl
45x5 hammers
---------

no rest til line

40x10 slow alt db curl
40x5 hammers
--------------

15 mins cardio

78 SETS

videos below

KILL SHIT


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgzuLPITtr4"]Curved Bar Pressdowns 300 and down the stack, plus curls and straight bar pressdowns, Around 5 minut - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://youtu.be/C95RUPWkMSk]Curved Bar Pressdowns 300x30 into curls - YouTube[/ame]