kyphosis

alteredbeast · Mar 7, 2007

Does anyone have any suggestions for improving bad posture? I have had a rounded upper back since I was a teenager and it runs in my family, my mother and her mother have had it. It's by far the one thing I'm most self conscious about. I can correct it by focusing on standing up straight, but as soon as I get into a conversation with someone I relax and I sink back into it; it feels unnatural for me to stand up straight. I tried custom orthotics a few years back with not much improvement. I also have extremely tight hamstrings (far from being able to touch my toes), which I've heard contributes to the problem.

Does anyone else have this problem? Any suggestions?
Chiropractor?
Massage Therapy?
Acupuncture?
Surgery?
Heard about something called Rolfing that sounded hopeful interesting...

I really would like to fix this!

celtic-devil · Mar 7, 2007

I agree, see an orthopedist.

But you can also go to T-nation.com. Do a search for a series of articles called "neanderthal no more". It may be what you are looking for.

It is a 5-6 series article if my memory serves me correctly & gives exercises/programs etc for your problem. I dont have problems with kyphosis so I can't really comment on the effectiveness of the program.

CD

aesop · Mar 7, 2007

Sounds like you have a posterior pelvic tilt as well which can have an influence on the curvature of the lumbar region.

The best thing you can do for tight hammies and a posterior pelvic tilt is stiff legged deadlift done on a platform. Start with light weight and keep a strict lifting posture, slight lordosis and shoulders back etc. I am assuming you know proper form so I will not cover that part. Your goal is to get to the point where you can touch your knuckles to the platform with bar in hand while maintaining perfect form. Start slow with light weight and progress gradually this is something you could do 3 times per week because you should not be going to failure or close to it just focusing on range of motion. 3 sets 15 to 20 reps

That and utilize a full range of motion or greater on pec exercises use dumbells pause at the deepest point possible. These are a couple simple things that will greatly improve posture.

Dead lifts, and hang cleans or power cleans done correctly are great at fixing poor posture as well. They will strengthen your entire upper back as well as lower back.

aesop · Mar 7, 2007

Back bridges are great as well do a google search on those. There is some combat training program by Matt Fury or something like that that goes over these extensively.

alteredbeast · Mar 8, 2007

Thanks for the suggestions guys, they're all good.

Smilodon - I saw an orthopedist years ago and he set me up with a pair of custom orthotics. Eventually the orthotics wore out (I ran with them in which I probably shouldn't have), but I will look into getting another pair. Is there anything else an orthopedist can do for me other than orthotics?

CD - I read the t-nation articles, thank you, some good info there. One of the things that was mentioned in those articles was Active Release Therapy... do you know anything more about that?

Aesop - excellent info bro, I always appreciate your posts. I do a lot of deadlifts already, but not straight-leg, so I will start incorporating those. A lot of the other exercises I do regularly, and I will check out back bridges. Honestly I think I may be beyond what muscle strengthening can do... I made need some kind of outside intervention lol...

phatrr · Mar 8, 2007

AB,

You sound like me 1 year ago. Perhaps my case was a little more extreme; but I had posture issues and flexibility issues. I retained a coach, and he told me that I needed medical evaluation - even though I had been cleared by a doctor, who told me that nothing was wrong with my back.

So, first, you should get thine ass to a medical professional who will listen to you and get a series of x-rays done. Those x-rays should cover your lumbar spine and hips, and thoracic spine. Make sure you don't have any structural issues before you hop on a treatment bandwagon. (When I finally found a chiropractor who listened to me, and got me x-rays, we discovered that I had a degenerated disc and an incurable spinal disease called DISH that was affecting the mid-thoracic region. This has greatly changed the course of treatment for me.)

Assuming that you check out structurally: Active Release (www.activerelease.com lists providers in your area; feel free to PM me and we can talk about how to tell whether a provider is really good) is a good set of techniques if done properly. Basically, the goal is to identify muscular impingments/adhesions, where the muscle is bound up to the fascia or otherwise constricted, remove those adhesions, and permit the muscle to move in it's full ROM. Such treatment can be quite painful.

My condition is such that I've been getting 2 ART sessions per week for about the past year. I owe my life to my ART provider; he's literally turned my body around, despite my spinal disease, and has enabled me to train hard. I can't say enough good things about therapy; so, I'm quite biased, and in some ways the best and worst person to ask about it.

The T-nation articles are a decent starting point for some at-home work.

If you're serious about this, you're going to have to stretch daily. Consider getting into Iyengar yoga; the Iyengar schools is built on concepts of body-awareness, and will teach you well how to listen to what is wrong with your body, and to work on correcting it. I do weekly 1-on-1 sessions with a veteran Iyengar coach. This has helped me to take what the ART therapy does, really understand it, and then work to further it at home.

I'll leave you with this tidbit for now: in every back exercise involving a contraction (rows, shrugbacks, back extensions, pulldowns) keep your chest up, and pause at the contracted position for 2+ seconds, and squeeze the motherfuck out of the mid-back musculature. Really feel all those muscles contracting.

If you have any more questions about this, please do not hesitate to ask me. I'll help you out with honest answers about my experience as best I can.

Best of luck in your journey.

alteredbeast · Mar 9, 2007

Gold Phatrr, that post was pure gold. It's funny I've had this problem for years but didn't really think there was anything I could do about it... I'm hopeful some of these suggestions might be the answer I'm looking for.

It's funny you mention having thoracic disk degeneration - if I recall correctly this is what the chiropractor told my mother she has after he took a look at her X-rays. I will look into getting X-rays myself.

So you find the active release beneficial? I'm out of town with work right now but when I get back home I'm going to check out an AR therapist, from that website I found a number of them where I live. I'm also looking into rolfing; from some of the info I've read it can have significant effect on posture, I believe there are studies showing it can correct lordosis, if not kyphosis.

I'm going to have to give you a shout when I visit the various AR therapists and maybe you can give me some things to look for in a therapist...

phatrr · Mar 9, 2007

Yes, I find ART very effective. A huge problem with a postural issue like kyphosis is that the rest of your body compensates for it; you probably have a corresponding lordosis in the lumbar region.

All your muscles, from your shoulders down to your calves, have also changed to conform to your spinal curve. So, not only do you have to get the posture corrected, but you then have to deal with all the other muscles changing their ROM and lengths.

My mid-back region was so locked up that it has taken me 8 months of therapy to be able to come close to proper execution of an overhead press. When I first started, if I laid on my back on the floor, I could not extend my arms over my head behind me, and get any closer than 6" to the floor. My shoulders were that impinged by the back musculature...and if you can't touch the floor behind you like that, you can't do an OHP.

My ART guy is great: I just got back from a session, and after working on me, he had me do some bodyweight squats to check for form. He wants to get video of every lift so that he can assess how much progress we've made, and tailor the sessions to be even better.

Again, I wish you the best of luck. I hope that your case is not nearly as extreme as mine, and that you get your issues squared away quickly.

sszapdog · Mar 10, 2007

what about an inversion table for spinal decompression?
try PHASE4.com for orthodics.
GOOD LUCK.

alteredbeast · Mar 10, 2007

Yes, I know what you mean! When I lay down supine and put my hands together above my head they naturally rest about 6 inches above the ground. If I really stretch I can make them touch but my elbows are still floating in space.

I remember taking swim lessons as a teenager and the instructor telling me to put my arms directly over my head and grasp my hands together - but my arms were always angled anteriorly... skydiving is difficult for this same reason, tough to maintain a good arch.

I gotta tell you phatrr, I'm pretty excited to try this ART... can't wait to get home now.

sszapdog - I've thought about buying an inversion table many times, not sure if it would help with this or not...

alteredbeast · Mar 27, 2007

update

So I had an assessment by a rolfer and he pointed out some interesting things. He said I don't have much for arches in the feet, my hamstrings are tight (which I knew already), and while my lumbar spine appears fairly straight my thoracic spine is indeed slightly kyphotic and bends to the right. He was actually able to give me a lot of information after only looking at me for a couple minutes. He showed me a few stretches for the hamstrings too. I haven't actually been rolfed yet but I set up an appointment for next week with him.

As I was leaving I asked him about orthotics and he referred me to a Pedorthist. The pedorthist gave me a bunch of information - it turns out I do have arches, it looks like I don't from a visual inspection but the imprint she took showed that I do have some, not great but they're there. The big thing she told me was that my feet have almost no ability to dorsiflex. I guess most people's feet can go beyond 90 degrees back towards their body, mine can barely make 90. She said this causes my leg to flip to the outside when I walk. It suspects it's a genetic thing, but she thought the rolfer might be able to increase the ROM somewhat. At the end of the assessment she recommended against orthotics. She did, however, refer me to a N.U.C.C.A. practicioner. NUCCA stands for National Upper Cervical Chiropractor Association. I guess what the NUCCA guy does is make an adjustment in your neck which will supposedly affect the rest of your posture. The pedorthist said she knew a guy who was kyphotic and had this done and has great posture now. Tomorrow I'm going in for an appointment and to have X-rays taken etc.

I still haven't been to an active release practicioner but I'll be looking into that soon.

I'll keep you guys updated if any of this works.