permabulkers

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

On a smaller scale, I did the see food diet. You know where what you see and like is what you eat.

Granted, I'm the smallest kid on this forum, I would never do that again. Never going to compete, I do this to look good.

Once I get down to a happy body fat %, I'm just going to do everything slowly until I'm comfortable with how to work my diet, training, etc. Then, and only then, start touching some of these nice oils and stuff. But never will I go for blasting effects of adding LBs on myself. I hate being puffy, bloated. I get very self-concious. I'll do things slowly, and if the oils put weight on fast, so be it provided it's quality.

I'd rather take it slow and look good year-round, then go on ups/downs and hate the way I look at times. I guess I'm too vain?

To each their own.......getting bulky above " fat" is up to the person.......it just opens the door to unnecessary health, beauty, monetary loss....believe me, I guarantee Trey Brewer wishes he never got that heavy.......Dusty never got heavy and look at how much muscle he gained.....there is a difference between getting heavy and getting sloppy.........if getting heavy is the answer to gaining size, then why pump in so much site oil? The answer is because its not the answer. The bare naked ass truth is this....smarter/more drugs make a bigger bodybuilder........not high volume..........not low volume.........not corn fed or grass fed......although grass fed is WAY SUPERIOR.........in fact, its the ONLY way to eat and John Meadows should be praised for bringing it to the forefront here........anyway........its what it is...........dont be fooled or misled......

 

[hawkmoon]

To each their own.......getting bulky above " fat" is up to the person.......it just opens the door to unnecessary health, beauty, monetary loss....believe me, I guarantee Trey Brewer wishes he never got that heavy.......Dusty never got heavy and look at how much muscle he gained.....there is a difference between getting heavy and getting sloppy.........if getting heavy is the answer to gaining size, then why pump in so much site oil? The answer is because its not the answer. The bare naked ass truth is this....smarter/more drugs make a bigger bodybuilder........not high volume..........not low volume.........not corn fed or grass fed......although grass fed is WAY SUPERIOR.........in fact, its the ONLY way to eat and John Meadows should be praised for bringing it to the forefront here........anyway........its what it is...........dont be fooled or misled......

^ truth

I think that someone can only eat as much as their body will handle - and that includes the level of their 'hormonized' state. We only have so much capacity...enhanced or otherwise.

 

[maldorf]

^ truth

I think that someone can only eat as much as their body will handle - and that includes the level of their 'hormonized' state. We only have so much capacity...enhanced or otherwise.

So true. Something that a lot of us have to learn the hard way. I learned this from experimenting. I ate fairly clean calories too with tons of chicken and rice/veggies and still got fat. Then I met Phil and had him give me some guidance. By the time I had Phil help me I had already found out that bulking up wasnt the answer for me at least, and he then showed me a far superior way to maximize my potential by eating a sensible diet. No more eating by the clock and force feeding myself to the point where my stomach was upset and I felt as if I were stuffed.
Once you take in what your body needs it will end up storing the remainder as bodyfat, and it doesnt matter if the food is "clean" or not because at that point a calorie is a calorie.

 

[betito]

To each their own.......getting bulky above " fat" is up to the person.......it just opens the door to unnecessary health, beauty, monetary loss....believe me, I guarantee Trey Brewer wishes he never got that heavy.......Dusty never got heavy and look at how much muscle he gained.....there is a difference between getting heavy and getting sloppy.........if getting heavy is the answer to gaining size, then why pump in so much site oil? The answer is because its not the answer. The bare naked ass truth is this....smarter/more drugs make a bigger bodybuilder........not high volume..........not low volume.........not corn fed or grass fed......although grass fed is WAY SUPERIOR.........in fact, its the ONLY way to eat and John Meadows should be praised for bringing it to the forefront here........anyway........its what it is...........dont be fooled or misled......

True, Dusty got big and soft, not fat, and the prof is that even doing a long and slow diet he was ripped ahead of time

 

[Bandid0]

so how much calories beyond maintenance do you guys think that is required for gain muscle ?

 

[tenny]

well said Ron

 

[Cactus kid]

There is no going back. This is your loss of innocence.

I love this quote

 

[buselmo]

There are so many great points made here by so many good people, I just don’t know
where to start, but will start by saying this.

It does not take very long to reach your natural genetic potential, maybe a few years,
four at the outside if you are not doing everything . . . diet, training, etc., correctly.

I’m going to use Tenny as an example here for no other reason than I happen to like the
man and he exemplifies what a couple of years of training (powerlifting no less) and
probably less “supplements” than most would ever consider taking (I’m guessing here,
have no way of knowing) will do for you and he looks better than 99% of the people
posting here will ever look, myself included. That’s a result of hard work coupled with
genetics; a good dose of both worlds, but not the best of both worlds.

If you have everything nailed; are not overtraining or overeating (two of the biggest
mistakes in my opinion) then you will know in short order of you have what it takes
to be a “player.” It is really not that difficult, people way over complicate things.
Work out as hard as humanly possible, and as briefly as possible. And eat when you
are hungry, when your body tells you to, until full, using the best quality foods, and
vitamins and minerals if you feel you must. Keep accurate records along the way,
continually get stronger, and do no harm to your body in the meantime. Then
you will be the best you can possible be naturally. Just don’t get fat in the men time,
substituting fat for muscle, as you will live to regret it if you live long enough.

Beyond that, all progress, and I mean all progress in muscular size becomes drug related;
anabolic steroids, growth hormone, insulin, and a bunch of stuff I have probable not even
heard of, with progress being dose related. And when done in stages, and only when you
have milked out every conceivable gain from every new protocol. There is no other possible
explanation in my opinion and the opinion of many here that are far more knowledgeable
then myself. More equals more muscle . . . to a point of diminish returns and advent of
adverse side effects which will ultimately do you more harm than good, cause most “normal”
people to regret ever jumping on the bandwagon to start with.

Do you really think that after 10 years of hard, serious training with total and absolute
dedication that changing your diet, your workout routine is going to make a significant,
meaningful difference? I think not. If 10 years did not do it, than nothing will except
the introduction of more “chemicals” (for lack of better word) than your body
produces naturally is going to radically change things. And you will never, ever, look as
good, be as big, as strong, as muscular as you are as when you are in that new arena.

Something else to think about . . . It is my opinion that once you have experienced the
size and strength gains that are only possible through the use of AAS, your life will never
be the same. And to many people who have an idealized image of themselves, the
absence of these effects can be worst side effect they will have as a function of using AAS.

There is no going back. This is your loss of innocence.

that's an awesome post right there!! :headbang:

 

[maldorf]

There is no going back. This is your loss of innocence.

I love this quote

SO very true. I love it when guys doing their first few cycles of steroids talk like they will do them for just a year or two and once they get big enough they will stop using. THey have no idea how the whole thing works and how it will turn out for them. To think that you can get big using steroids and then go off and maintain what you put on indefinetely without going back on is either just wishful thinking or ignorance.

 

[btech]

SO very true. I love it when guys doing their first few cycles of steroids talk like they will do them for just a year or two and once they get big enough they will stop using. THey have no idea how the whole thing works and how it will turn out for them. To think that you can get big using steroids and then go off and maintain what you put on indefinetely without going back on is either just wishful thinking or ignorance.

Almost 3 years ago I did a Phera Plex / Superdrol bridge cycle, gained about 12 pounds. Lifts went up. Went off, lost some fat, lost my gains. Never went back.

I'm guessing gaining 12 lbs from PP and SD doesn't count?

 

[maldorf]

Almost 3 years ago I did a Phera Plex / Superdrol bridge cycle, gained about 12 pounds. Lifts went up. Went off, lost some fat, lost my gains. Never went back.

I'm guessing gaining 12 lbs from PP and SD doesn't count?

Im willing to bet it was early in bodybuilding for you? Early on you can eat like shit and take no supplements and grow. After training hard for 10-20 yrs and youve hit your natural potential, once you go on the steroids you end up losing almost everything once you go off. Try your experiment after another 10 plus years of lifting and see what happens.

 

[tenny]

Im willing to bet it was early in bodybuilding for you? Early on you can eat like shit and take no supplements and grow. After training hard for 10-20 yrs and youve hit your natural potential, once you go on the steroids you end up losing almost everything once you go off. Try your experiment after another 10 plus years of lifting and see what happens.

yep.....i'm happy with a single pound of lean body weight
per year

two and im estatic

 

[btech]

Im willing to bet it was early in bodybuilding for you? Early on you can eat like shit and take no supplements and grow. After training hard for 10-20 yrs and youve hit your natural potential, once you go on the steroids you end up losing almost everything once you go off. Try your experiment after another 10 plus years of lifting and see what happens.

You are right, I had been training for about three years. Idiot mistake on my part.

By losing everything (part I bolded), I am assuming you mean all of the new gains you get from taking stuff? Not losing your natural base, right?

 

[knucklehed]

This has been a good thread simply because I was not familiar with the term PermaBulker
Now it's kind of an inside joke with my wife and some friends.
"hey she must be permabulking...

 

[keepushin770]

gotta cut some time!!!

 

[maldorf]

You are right, I had been training for about three years. Idiot mistake on my part.

By losing everything (part I bolded), I am assuming you mean all of the new gains you get from taking stuff? Not losing your natural base, right?

No problem. The whole story changes when you take a lifter that is fairly new, because its so much easier to keep those gains. Yeah, once you go off the steroids you slowly return back to your natural state. It takes many months if youre still training balls to the wall and eating right, but you will eventually revert back to your preset point before you stated the steroids. this is why after doing it awhile so many of us start cruising inbetween cycles so that we dont lose what we built up. I was just about able to maintain what I had with 250mg/wk, but still slowly losing ground.
Before my heart atttack I was up to about 235 lbs at 6 foot and bf between 7 and 10% somewhere. This is what I was at when i was on about 750 mg/wk test and 250 mg/wk deca or tren -so 1 gram total. When i cruised at 250mg/wk test I got down to 225 lbs after a few months, and so I lost about 10 lbs. I do think most of the weight was water or something because my strength hardly dropped, but I did look smaller.
Now after my heart attack I dont take steroids anymore except for dr prescribed HRT at 100 mg/wk. I do feel like I am a bit more muscular than I would be if I had never done the AAS. So I do think some of it stayed with me permanent, but its a small part. SOme of that could be the 1+ yrs of HGH use, I dont know. RIght now Im sitting at about 15% bodyfat or so and weight around 217 lbs and dont have to hardly lift to maintain it. Im still a lot stronger than the average guy and more muscular. I can take 4 weeks off from lifting, like when getting sick, and come back and ive not lost any strength. Its weird. At the same time I can lift what is hard for me now for 3 or 4 months straight and I cant put on any size or strength. its like im stuck here. I cant put anymore on but I dont seem to lose any either.

 

[Cactus kid]

SO very true. I love it when guys doing their first few cycles of steroids talk like they will do them for just a year or two and once they get big enough they will stop using. THey have no idea how the whole thing works and how it will turn out for them. To think that you can get big using steroids and then go off and maintain what you put on indefinetely without going back on is either just wishful thinking or ignorance.

Yeah I think it's funny that guys think that. I knew once I got on I was on for good. Since I started I have only been off for two months. I decided there will be no more "cycles.". If I want to get were I want to go in bodybuilding there is no point in making up for lost time. I will never be completely off. This is the choice I made.

 

[btech]

No problem. The whole story changes when you take a lifter that is fairly new, because its so much easier to keep those gains. Yeah, once you go off the steroids you slowly return back to your natural state. It takes many months if youre still training balls to the wall and eating right, but you will eventually revert back to your preset point before you stated the steroids. this is why after doing it awhile so many of us start cruising inbetween cycles so that we dont lose what we built up. I was just about able to maintain what I had with 250mg/wk, but still slowly losing ground.
Before my heart atttack I was up to about 235 lbs at 6 foot and bf between 7 and 10% somewhere. This is what I was at when i was on about 750 mg/wk test and 250 mg/wk deca or tren -so 1 gram total. When i cruised at 250mg/wk test I got down to 225 lbs after a few months, and so I lost about 10 lbs. I do think most of the weight was water or something because my strength hardly dropped, but I did look smaller.
Now after my heart attack I dont take steroids anymore except for dr prescribed HRT at 100 mg/wk. I do feel like I am a bit more muscular than I would be if I had never done the AAS. So I do think some of it stayed with me permanent, but its a small part. SOme of that could be the 1+ yrs of HGH use, I dont know. RIght now Im sitting at about 15% bodyfat or so and weight around 217 lbs and dont have to hardly lift to maintain it. Im still a lot stronger than the average guy and more muscular. I can take 4 weeks off from lifting, like when getting sick, and come back and ive not lost any strength. Its weird. At the same time I can lift what is hard for me now for 3 or 4 months straight and I cant put on any size or strength. its like im stuck here. I cant put anymore on but I dont seem to lose any either.

Thanks for the response Maldorf, I'm still learning this stuff.