please help with gh/slin

[BIG-D]

First let me say that I have read every single thread regarding gh/slin on this board. I have experimented in the past with slin pre and post workout. I seem to get better results shooting 5iu 30 min pre workout, then having an intra workout shake. My problem is how to time this correctly with my gh. I am running 10 iu per day. Obvoiusly I am looking for size, but I would also like to take advantage of the fat burning effects of injecting gh while fasted. That being said what do you all think about doing it like this.

wake up around 5-6am to pee (I do everyday) shoot 5iu gh sub q
go back to sleep or go do my morning cardio

train around 10-11 am shoot 5 iu hum-r 30 min pre workout
during workout sip my shake of 50 grms vitargo with 1 scoop synthesize

post workout shoot another 5 iu gh IM

what are everyones thoughts on this protocol...suggestions?

 

[RV63T]

im know expert but i think you would still get the fat burning results you want with the AM gh and the cardio.
but i think for size you would do your gh and slin post work out. the two combined convert to IGF-1 wich works best post workout.

 

[BIG-D]

My thoughts exactly bro thats why i figured split the dose and get the best of both worlds. When i pin the slin pre workout my levels should still be somewhat high from the morning shot and the slin would still be active when i hit the second dose of gh. Just want to make sure my logic on this is right

 

[jm425]

First let me say that I have read every single thread regarding gh/slin on this board. I have experimented in the past with slin pre and post workout. I seem to get better results shooting 5iu 30 min pre workout, then having an intra workout shake. My problem is how to time this correctly with my gh. I am running 10 iu per day. Obvoiusly I am looking for size, but I would also like to take advantage of the fat burning effects of injecting gh while fasted. That being said what do you all think about doing it like this.

wake up around 5-6am to pee (I do everyday) shoot 5iu gh sub q
go back to sleep or go do my morning cardio

train around 10-11 am shoot 5 iu hum-r 30 min pre workout
during workout sip my shake of 50 grms vitargo with 1 scoop synthesize

post workout shoot another 5 iu gh IM

what are everyones thoughts on this protocol...suggestions?

IMO, it's best to make sure your gh and slin peak at the same time to maximize igf production. With your protocol it does not do that. With your protocol, your slin levels would be on the decline when your gh levels would peak. It takes gh about 3 hours to really peak. IMO, you should be doing your gh pwo and then add your slin after that.

 

[GoneForever]

I would personally shoot all 10iu's Gh with your slin immediately pwo IM and then slam you shake if size is your goal.

 

[BIG-D]

thanks for your advice guys I appreciate it. Fourthgen, so are you saying gh and slin in the same pin,at the same time?

 

[GoneForever]

thanks for your advice guys I appreciate it. Fourthgen, so are you saying gh and slin in the same pin,at the same time?

Yep. Personally if your going for mass only i'd do 20iu's with the slin EOD instead of 10iu's ED, but if dieting id rather do 5iu's 2x per day or even 3.33iu's 3x per day

 

[BIG-D]

Awesome feedback guys...its really appreciated.

 

[BIG-D]

Yep. Personally if your going for mass only i'd do 20iu's with the slin EOD instead of 10iu's ED, but if dieting id rather do 5iu's 2x per day or even 3.33iu's 3x per day

Yea well I just started my off season and need to put on some size. That being said I have to be ready for photo shoots so I cant get too sloppy. Thats why I was trying to get the best of both worlds by splitting it up one morning and once with slin. How has your experience been with this. Did it still help you stay pretty lean shooting all high dose pwo?

 

[BIG-D]

Thats what I did. GH and Slin in the same pin.

However I feel now its better to do the GH 2-3 hours before the end of workout for IGF levels to peak, then slin post workout. I feel its better fat loss during the workout, and maximizes the post workout

hmmmm...now this method may be perfect for what im looking for...thanks bro. Fourthgen whats your opinion on this?

 

[VTliftVT]

If you are trying to get "the best of both worlds" then make sure you have one dosing of GH in the presence of insulin (exo or do to carb intake or both) along with the appropriate amino acids for the gaining size part. Then to make sure you get the most out of the second dosing (or third depending on your protocal) of GH make sure you do not take it in the presence of insulin as insulin will deter the fat burning effects. So try to split up your dosages where you have carbs and don't have carbs (also no exo insulin with the no carb situation for fat loss) while the GH is active. You can check out dats thread for more detailed information on the length of time GH is active at what dosages (iu's).

 

[GoneForever]

Yea well I just started my off season and need to put on some size. That being said I have to be ready for photo shoots so I cant get too sloppy. Thats why I was trying to get the best of both worlds by splitting it up one morning and once with slin. How has your experience been with this. Did it still help you stay pretty lean shooting all high dose pwo?

I cant really give a fair observation b/c one cycle I did 4iu's ED and the next was 12iu's 3x per week. I def didnt notice any fat gain from the 3x per week method though. I think your plan of 10 everyday is good but i'd still do all 10 pwo with slin.

 

[GoneForever]

If you are trying to get "the best of both worlds" then make sure you have one dosing of GH in the presence of insulin (exo or do to carb intake or both) along with the appropriate amino acids for the gaining size part. Then to make sure you get the most out of the second dosing (or third depending on your protocal) of GH make sure you do not take it in the presence of insulin as insulin will deter the fat burning effects. So try to split up your dosages where you have carbs and don't have carbs (also no exo insulin with the no carb situation for fat loss) while the GH is active. You can check out dats thread for more detailed information on the length of time GH is active at what dosages (iu's).

Thats not a bad idea. Maybe have 5iu's sitting on an icepack by your nightstand and when you wake up in mid night shoot it, that way your insulin levels will be very low and that 5iu's will do some fat burning, then shoot your other 5iu's pwo with the slin.

 

[VTliftVT]

Thats not a bad idea. Maybe have 5iu's sitting on an icepack by your nightstand and when you wake up in mid night shoot it, that way your insulin levels will be very low and that 5iu's will do some fat burning, then shoot your other 5iu's pwo with the slin.

I was thinking that or if he worked out earlier in the day switch it the other way around. Maybe the 1st GH dose first thing in the morning (say 5-5:30AM) then insulin with p/c meal. Wait X number of hours for GH to clear + refresh time (depending on size of first dose) then second GH dose later in the evening during a carb cut-off time.

So something like:

5:30AM: 5iu GH (active time + refresh time around 12 hrs?)
6:AM - maybe 50min cardio to get some fat burning effect?
7AM: meal 1 P/C with 5iu slin
10AM : meal 2 P/C or P/F depending on your macros (make sure slin clears if PF meal first as not to store fat from P/F meal)
NOON: train
1PM: PWO meal + 5iu slin
4PM: P/C meal
6PM: 5iu GH
7PM: P/F meal

That way you get your first GH shot in when your most anabolic but no fat burning. Then you get your second in without the presense of insulin for optimal fat burning. I guess it all depends on your days set up. You could take your first shot earlier and get in some cardio also which would allow you to utilize the first shot for 1-2 hours of optimal fat burning before inducing carbs/insulin. Just some thoughts....

 

[DatBtrue]

However I feel now its better to do the GH 2-3 hours before the end of workout for IGF levels to peak, then slin post workout.

IGF-1 levels to peak? That isn't how it works. Here is what a daily dose of GH does to IGF-1 levels.

​

IGF-1 levels build and are sustained each day until they reach a sustained level a week in.

The numbers on this chart are not important. It was posted to show you that IGF-1 levels after they build will remain constant if you dose GH daily (at sufficient dose). The GH you take today will insure your levels remain elevated tomorrow, etc.

Gavin Kane sure did a number on people's heads.

 

[td1111]

IGF-1 levels to peak? That isn't how it works. Here is what a daily dose of GH does to IGF-1 levels.

View attachment 28308​

IGF-1 levels build and are sustained each day until they reach a sustained level a week in.

The numbers on this chart are not important. It was posted to show you that IGF-1 levels after they build will remain constant if you dose GH daily (at sufficient dose). The GH you take today will insure your levels remain elevated tomorrow, etc.

Gavin Kane sure did a number on people's heads.

Wow, interesting! So taking GH with insulin just simply raises your overall, weekly IGF levels way above normal? No real advantage to using these PWO, except for the the insulin helping to move nutrients?

 

[weltweite]

IGF-1 levels to peak? That isn't how it works. Here is what a daily dose of GH does to IGF-1 levels.

View attachment 28308​

IGF-1 levels build and are sustained each day until they reach a sustained level a week in.

The numbers on this chart are not important. It was posted to show you that IGF-1 levels after they build will remain constant if you dose GH daily (at sufficient dose). The GH you take today will insure your levels remain elevated tomorrow, etc.

Gavin Kane sure did a number on people's heads.

I remember you specifically teaching me that timing wasnt an issue. You used the example of a hand smacking a balloon up. (I guess this is a case of learning, but forgetting)

It wasn't a gavin kane read, but I had seen a graph showing that IGF release peaked at 3 hours after Gh administeration. I tried looking for the post and couldn't find it. So maybe I'm hallucinating but regardless none of that would matter, if IGF is elevated chronically day in and day out.

 

[BIG-D]

So basically I can pin my gh whenever and just take my slin pre or post workout. Dat is this correct?

 

[VTliftVT]

So basically I can pin my gh whenever and just take my slin pre or post workout. Dat is this correct?

I think that this helps understand a little more about the timing of GH or atleast how often to pin etc.

per dats post: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showpost.php?p=488753&postcount=374

 

[BIG-D]

I think that this helps understand a little more about the timing of GH or atleast how often to pin etc.

per dats post: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showpost.php?p=488753&postcount=374

perfect! Thanks bro!