Preventing steroid induced cardiomyopathy

[DOGGCRAPP]

Curcumin **broken link removed**

Sulforaphane **broken link removed**

and Telmisartan as GI Bro already stated

 

[maldorf]

**broken link removed**

I would like to see the study and see how high the weight of the "muscular" subjects went. I doubt it was developed bodybuilder level. There has to be a point where if you put on more weight, no matter if it is fat or muscle, that you are raising your risk for heart trouble. There is only so much muscle that a heart can supply with blood, there is a finite maximum amount of blood that the heart can deliver. Increasing the load on the heart to high and higher levels isn't a good thing. Studies do show that people with low bodyweight live the longest lives.

Perhaps the best situation for a long life would be to have low bodyfat/lean and fairly skinny by our standards.

 

[maldorf]

If you already have heart trouble

If you have already developed heart trouble of any kind my recommendation is to get off for good and never get back on. Too many times people have gotten better once being off and then assumed they are healthy and then get back on. It is too hard for them to admit that the trouble to begin with was caused by their use. Self inflicted injury really. Some people just cant use. Accept the reality and be glad that you were given a second chance.

 

[little slice]

**broken link removed**

intredasting..




but like Maldorf, I wonder if the principle remains true when taken to extremes



sadly, we will probably never know for certain

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Thats 6500 people and it was pretty darn convincing

**broken link removed**

so no I dont think if a guy weighs

300 fat as all hell

he is as healthy as someone

300 and athletic and lean

no i don't at all

You guys are throwing other factors into it subconsciously (drugs etc)but the fact of the matter is if it was resounding among 6500 people at lower bodyweights....there should be no drastic skewering or opposite results as the bodyweights get heavier.

Everyone knows that fasting and "lighter" people live longer. The statement was "290 pounds of muscle is worse than 290 pounds of fat"....and its not true even though 160lbs bodyweight lean is much better than 290 pounds of bodyweight for longevity

Do you know whats even healthier? Never become a "bodybuilder"....stay in a lighter weight range and weight train and do cardio. Never play football is healthy, never skydive is healthy, never hike in grizzly country is healthy....its where you want to draw the line in the sand for yourself as far as your passion

 

[GetYucked]

Really silly question, what does ABC stand for? Assuming it's a sponsor or place to order telmisartan

 

[maldorf]

Thats 6500 people and it was pretty darn convincing

**broken link removed**

so no I dont think if a guy weighs

300 fat as all hell

he is as healthy as someone

300 and athletic and lean

no i don't at all

You guys are throwing other factors into it subconsciously (drugs etc)but the fact of the matter is if it was resounding among 6500 people at lower bodyweights....there should be no drastic skewering or opposite results as the bodyweights get heavier.

Everyone knows that fasting and "lighter" people live longer. The statement was "290 pounds of muscle is worse than 290 pounds of fat"....and its not true even though 160lbs bodyweight lean is much better than 290 pounds of bodyweight for longevity

Do you know whats even healthier? Never become a "bodybuilder"....stay in a lighter weight range and weight train and do cardio. Never play football is healthy, never skydive is healthy, never hike in grizzly country is healthy....its where you want to draw the line in the sand for yourself as far as your passion

I do agree that a 300 lb lean and athletic man is more healthy than a 300 lb fat man. That is only if he is natural and not taking a boat load of steroids to get there. How many natural and lean 300 lbers do you know?

In that scenario, I would say the best case scenario would be that the two of them are of about equal health at best. The steroids would be the trade off for being lean. If a high dose of steroids were involved, and at 300 lbs I would say they were, then the fat guy would actually be healthier.

I know a ton of fat people that are far healthier than I and some on this board.

 

[chainheart]

**broken link removed**

"Because people with higher muscle mass were more likely to have a high body mass index, the findings could explain the "obesity paradox," which holds that people with a higher BMI have lower mortality levels."

i would believe that David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA study does not consider us to be on that list of lower mortality risk. they are thinking in terms of the age 60+ tennis players, golf enthusiasts regular active seniors that still retain some decent muscle from a normal lifestyle and kept "trim." they represent the "non AAS taking" crowd that stayed on the go. we all know them in their late 70's and 80's who ate sensibly throughout life not the ones that would have made "big featured member" at our hang out.

I would imagine that being 290 pounds of muscle would actually be worse than 290 pounds of fat as it relates to the heart.

?Overweight? People Actually Tend to Live Longer Than ?Normal? Weight Individuals | The Science Explorer

Why being 'overweight' means you live longer: The way scientists twist the facts | The Independent

https://www.google.com/search?q=fat+people+live+longer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[chainheart]

once again which curcumin and sulforaphane products have the best absorption rate?

 

[Knight9]

once again which curcumin and sulforaphane products have the best absorption rate?

BCM-95 has been the go-to for many for years now. Life Extension Super Bio-Curcumin.

Avmacol and Broccomax is likely a great way to get Sulphorophane.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Swifto]

BCM-95 has been the go-to for many for years now. Life Extension Super Bio-Curcumin.

Avmacol and Broccomax is likely a great way to get Sulphorophane.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Is the Broccomax formula worth using?

I was under the impression the Avmacol ingredients, extract and formulation was superior.

 

[nothuman]

Is the Broccomax formula worth using?

I was under the impression the Avmacol ingredients, extract and formulation was superior.

The studies used Avamacol from what I understand, so that's probably the safer bet.

As for curcumin, the best form is up for debate. I've used the LE bcm95 brand, novasol from natural stacks, and biomor. Hard to tell the difference, but I believe Biomor to be the best based on gut feeling (however I could be wrong). I just get zero pain at all in the gym anymore and I don't feel like this was the case before. My CRP was also recently 0.2 (though I take other things for anti inflammation and eat anti inflammatory fats every day).

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I do agree that a 300 lb lean and athletic man is more healthy than a 300 lb fat man. That is only if he is natural and not taking a boat load of steroids to get there. How many natural and lean 300 lbers do you know?

In that scenario, I would say the best case scenario would be that the two of them are of about equal health at best. The steroids would be the trade off for being lean. If a high dose of steroids were involved, and at 300 lbs I would say they were, then the fat guy would actually be healthier.

I know a ton of fat people that are far healthier than I and some on this board.

I dont but that wasnt the statement. My thoughts went right to someone like JJ Watt at 300lbs....and I got to think JJ Watt at 27 years of age and 300lbs is extremely healthier than some dumpy 27 year old who is 300lbs because of non activity and awful eating.

 

[thethinker48]

I dont but that wasnt the statement. My thoughts went right to someone like JJ Watt at 300lbs....and I got to think JJ Watt at 27 years of age and 300lbs is extremely healthier than some dumpy 27 year old who is 300lbs because of non activity and awful eating.

What about somebody that's 5'9 and 300 lbs of muscle? More freaky bodybuilder than a 6'5 football player with a huge bone structure (which accounts for quite a bit of weight).

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

What about somebody that's 5'9 and 300 lbs of muscle? More freaky bodybuilder than a 6'5 football player with a huge bone structure (which accounts for quite a bit of weight).

ok now you are talking about drugs.

if you want to talk about drugs then lets do it

Who is healthier?

The 5'9" 300 lb bodybuilder who takes X amount of bbing drugs and does cardio religiously and eats a healthy bodybuilder diet

or

The 5'9" fat peice of crap guy who thinks he is a bodybuilder who takes the same amount of bbing drugs as the guy above but eats kentucky fried chicken and Mcdonalds all day, doesnt do any cardio and skips workouts all the time.

you guys have to make the variables the same if you want to compare the groups

 

[maldorf]

ok now you are talking about drugs.

if you want to talk about drugs then lets do it

Who is healthier?

The 5'9" 300 lb bodybuilder who takes X amount of bbing drugs and does cardio religiously and eats a healthy bodybuilder diet

or

The 5'9" fat peice of crap guy who thinks he is a bodybuilder who takes the same amount of bbing drugs as the guy above but eats kentucky fried chicken and Mcdonalds all day, doesnt do any cardio and skips workouts all the time.

you guys have to make the variables the same if you want to compare the groups

Again though this just sounds like more excuses to give guys to use steroids. Thinking that the risk is small and the benefits outweigh the risks. I don't think that is the message you are trying to get across but it sounds similar.

If you want to keep the variable all the same then you need to give both of those guys the same exact diet, you broke that rule there. The only difference should be their bodyfat levels. The greater level of bodyfat could be due to many different reasons and wouldn't be out of the realm of imagination. Lets face it, both lifestyles are unhealthy for the body.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

deleted sulforaphane info as ill leave it on other thread

 

[G.I.Bro]

The studies used Avamacol from what I understand, so that's probably the safer bet.

As for curcumin, the best form is up for debate. I've used the LE bcm95 brand, novasol from natural stacks, and biomor. Hard to tell the difference, but I believe Biomor to be the best based on gut feeling (however I could be wrong). I just get zero pain at all in the gym anymore and I don't feel like this was the case before. My CRP was also recently 0.2 (though I take other things for anti inflammation and eat anti inflammatory fats every day).

Please share the other thing and the fats. I'm doing keto now so all about the fats and reducing inflammation. So you defected from LEF to Biomor? Just read up, Biomor looks impressive.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

300lb fat guy vs 300lb drug using muscle head... Let`s be honest that is the majority, fat guy lives longer. If somebody has naturally grown to 300lbs, muscular and lean (under 15%bf) that is their genetics and they are a very rare minority. Their heart is likely able to handle the load. The fat guy has much less blood to move since adipose tissue is not very vascular, especially compared to muscle. The 300lb bodybuilder on juice, very often will have elevated hematocrit, pulse and BP for extended periods of time. Both of those strain the left ventricle, the fat guy will have much less strain on his LV because of that and he has less arteries to pump the blood thru. LV is always working on overdrive, its gonna burn out, enlarge, walls thin out, blood backs up, pulmonary edema, LV failure, cardiomyopathy, etc. Such silly discussion. Oh yea just take this OTC supp and now your heart can handle a 100% + increase in load from what it would be doing if you were natural. Organs, the body can be pushed to a degree and still maintain health and longevity but not that far.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

300lb fat guy vs 300lb drug using muscle head... Let`s be honest that is the majority, fat guy lives longer. If somebody has naturally grown to 300lbs, muscular and lean (under 15%bf) that is their genetics and they are a very rare minority. Their heart is likely able to handle the load. The fat guy has much less blood to move since adipose tissue is not very vascular, especially compared to muscle. The 300lb bodybuilder on juice, very often will have elevated hematocrit, pulse and BP for extended periods of time. Both of those strain the left ventricle, the fat guy will have much less strain on his LV because of that and he has less arteries to pump the blood thru. LV is always working on overdrive, its gonna burn out, enlarge, walls thin out, blood backs up, pulmonary edema, LV failure, cardiomyopathy, etc. Such silly discussion. Oh yea just take this OTC supp and now your heart can handle a 100% + increase in load from what it would be doing if you were natural. Organs, the body can be pushed to a degree and still maintain health and longevity but not that far.

How did drugs get into the picture in this argument?

of course people who use massive amounts of steroids arent going to be healthier! The study wasnt about people who used massive amounts of steroids. It was about more muscle mass and leaner living longer. You guys are the ones throwing the whole steroids stuff in here. Thats like saying who is going to live longer
a) guys who are lean with some muscle mass
b) guys who are fat with little muscle mass who drink alcohol daily like a lush also

How is that a comparison? I just gave the second guy vodka all day long

Since we dont see 300lbers who are clean at sub 6 foot heights lets do it this way in that is reachable

a) 5'9" guy who has alot of muscle mass and is lean at 225lbs who is natural and all that entails
b) 5'9" guy who has little muscle mass and is fat at 225lbs who is natural and all that entails

who lives longer?

or

a) 5'9" guy who has alot of muscle mass and is lean at 225lbs (and uses steroids) and all that entails
b) 5'9" guy who has little muscle mass and is fat at 225lbs (and uses steroids) and all that entails

who lives longer

Dont just give one guy in the comparison a boatload of juice because you feel like it