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Preventing steroid induced cardiomyopathy

thethinker48

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We all know the negative risks associated with steroid use. And using a sane approach in terms of dosages coupled with regular bloodwork can help prevent an early death.

Is there anything you guys do regularly to prevent the negative cardiac affects (primarily dilated myopathy) short of doing regular scans?

Usually one can see the downhill path one is taking when they run bloodwork, and see progressively worse values. But an enlarged heart isn't usually recognized until it's too late? (correct me if I'm wrong PM residents much smarter than myself).

Here's a case study of a guy who was a bodybuilder/strongman (kind of vague) who was taking 1.5 g of test, 500 mgs of tren, and 40 mgs of Dbol with some arimidex; he stopped taking everything 6 weeks prior to being admitted for symptoms of heart failure (I'm assuming because he felt the symptoms at that point). He had been using steroids for 7 years. Short of not using steroids or running high doses; was there anything this guy could have done to prevent this from happening?

He weighed 290 lbs which I'm sure contributed.

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2015/203/5/steroid-induced-cardiomyopathy

P.S- I'm 99% sure I have a variable missing here that one of you geniuses will point out.
 

Swifto

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We all know the negative risks associated with steroid use. And using a sane approach in terms of dosages coupled with regular bloodwork can help prevent an early death.

Is there anything you guys do regularly to prevent the negative cardiac affects (primarily dilated myopathy) short of doing regular scans?

Usually one can see the downhill path one is taking when they run bloodwork, and see progressively worse values. But an enlarged heart isn't usually recognized until it's too late? (correct me if I'm wrong PM residents much smarter than myself).

Here's a case study of a guy who was a bodybuilder/strongman (kind of vague) who was taking 1.5 g of test, 500 mgs of tren, and 40 mgs of Dbol with some arimidex; he stopped taking everything 6 weeks prior to being admitted for symptoms of heart failure (I'm assuming because he felt the symptoms at that point). He had been using steroids for 7 years. Short of not using steroids or running high doses; was there anything this guy could have done to prevent this from happening?

He weighed 290 lbs which I'm sure contributed.

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2015/203/5/steroid-induced-cardiomyopathy

P.S- I'm 99% sure I have a variable missing here that one of you geniuses will point out.
High haemoglobin and hypertension no doubt went untreated. I'm speculating here but both of those are going to speed the process and worsen his outcome.
 

bg091593

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Wouldn't bodyfat have an association? I mean 290 is huge, but wouldn't there be a difference between 290 at 30% and 290 at 12%?
 

goal245

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Here is the cause:

"naproxen 1.1g daily for 12 weeks"

Look up naproxen heart palpilations/heart attack

Being heavy didn't help either, he weight 310lbs not 290 (does not list heigh)
 
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little slice

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im pretty sure high blood pressure is the leading cause of all the shit that kills bodybuilders





keep that shit in line



with ace-I and ARB's available, there's no excuse to have high blood pressure tbh
 

malcom young

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Wouldn't bodyfat have an association? I mean 290 is huge, but wouldn't there be a difference between 290 at 30% and 290 at 12%?

290 at Any % is unhealthy, I imagine it's even worse depending on what size frame you have and your pre-lifting weight.

Google shows the average male is 5' 10" and even Large framed is only 185 lbs, medium frame weighing 170.

How many medium framed guys, even without the other associated BB related health issues, could handle walking around with almost three 45 lb plates with strapped to their back every second of their life?
 

lntense

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He was on 1.1g of naproxen? I believe that also contributed.



With everything else, his weight etc.. It isn't that shocking. I'm sure he wasn't getting regular blood work/donating/keeping BP in check either.
 

little slice

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Wouldn't bodyfat have an association? I mean 290 is huge, but wouldn't there be a difference between 290 at 30% and 290 at 12%?



I would imagine that being 290 pounds of muscle would actually be worse than 290 pounds of fat as it relates to the heart.
 

goal245

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Interestingly he was put on 125mg testosterone/ week as part of treatment/recovery
 

bg091593

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I would imagine that being 290 pounds of muscle would actually be worse than 290 pounds of fat as it relates to the heart.
As soon as I posted that I thought of that... worse yeah, but definitely cooler as well...
 

ldog

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Here are my thoughts:

Naproxen is horrible...I'm certain this had an effect.
Arimidex is not lipid friendly and I always push brothers toward aromasin as it has little to no effect on lipids.
Tren is really harsh on the body. I know brothers love it but I will never use it. It's just too harsh on the body.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Elvia1023

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So many things lead to his condition that is obvious.

This is not related to this thread but about 101 threads on here over the last few years. So many guys are quick to blame steroids for everything. They should be blamed so that isn't my point. But the weight of someone especially if it's mainly muscle is a major factor. Steroids helped them get to that weight so another reason to blame them.

However guys on here act like if they weigh 280 pounds but take various health supplements and their blood work is good they are going to be fine... no you won't. Big people don't live long that is a fact. How many guys do you see 280 pounds in their 70's/80's? Plus how many of those guys weighed that much most of their lives and didn't just get fatter as they got older? Granted many 180 pound bodybuilders still die young but look at all the deaths... most of them were huge. I could take all the citrus bergamot, garlic, q10 etc in the world but if I get to a big weight and stay there chances are I will die early.

Obviously I am not stating don't take health supplements and make sure your blood work is perfect as that is common sense. If your blood work is bad in certain areas address it through diet and supplementation etc. The guys who can't down size into the 40's/50's/60's are asking for trouble. I will probably be one of them who knows. I tell myself I will downsize in my 40's but even 220-230 is not healthy but I guess it's better than more.

I didn't even read the case study as to me it's simply an unknown but the factors are very obvious. It's always the same... big guys, lots of different drugs... heart issues... what a surprise. Millions of people around the world have heart issues who have never touched a drug and weigh 180 pounds. So the chances you will have heart issues when you weigh 100 pounds more and don't look after your body/heart are obviously increased multiple times. At the end of the day though all we can do is speculate what had the biggest contributing factor.

For me if you want to protect your heart don't bodybuild past 200 pounds, don't take strong drugs, do light cardio, exercise with lights weights, look after your body, stay stress free and take supplements such as ubiquinol, garlic and well anything that will help your personal bloodwork so that varies for everyone.
 

G.I.Bro

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Telmisartan+++

No excuse for having high BP. Order it on ADC and run during cycle at a minimum. Best bp med with most peripheral perks imo.

Throw some metformin in for the latest in greatest in anti aging anti cancer cocktail. Virtually no sides...
 
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draven

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Telmisartan

Whats the safe preventative maintenance dosage on this? 20mg daily or higher?
 

Knight9

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Telmisartan+++

No excuse for having high BP. Order it on ADC and run during cycle at a minimum. Best bp med with most peripheral perks imo.

Throw some metformin in for the latest in greatest in anti aging anti cancer cocktail. Virtually no sides...
YES

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 

nothuman

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That was very scary to read and reminded me of my own scare. A resting heart rate of 120-140 is frightening. That's what it is when a lot of people do cardio. I have no doubt mine was similar back when I was an idiot with a side of sky high blood pressure.

I had to laugh at the post stating naproxen caused it, LOL. Yes daily naproxen is bad and was part of the problem, but it was a smaller one compared to the 7 years of steroids in high doses for extended periods of time. It doesn't specify how long he was on without cruising but it sounds like he just ran high doses year round, which is a death sentence. Remember, the length of time on is worse than the doses themselves in many cases. There are so many factors that contributed to all his health ailments. He was a mess, and it's really sad because I almost went down that road, and I was never even close to 310lbs.
 

goal245

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That was very scary to read and reminded me of my own scare. A resting heart rate of 120-140 is frightening. That's what it is when a lot of people do cardio. I have no doubt mine was similar back when I was an idiot with a side of sky high blood pressure.

I had to laugh at the post stating naproxen caused it, LOL. Yes daily naproxen is bad and was part of the problem, but it was a smaller one compared to the 7 years of steroids in high doses for extended periods of time. It doesn't specify how long he was on without cruising but it sounds like he just ran high doses year round, which is a death sentence. Remember, the length of time on is worse than the doses themselves in many cases. There are so many factors that contributed to all his health ailments. He was a mess, and it's really sad because I almost went down that road, and I was never even close to 310lbs.
Go read studies on NSAIDS especially naproxen and cardiovascular risks:

"Advil, Aleve Raise Heart Attack Risk: FDA Warns. The U.S Food and Drug Administration on Thursday strengthened the warning labels for widely used painkillers like ibuprofen and naproxen, saying they can increase the risk of heart attack or stroke"

" Use of non-aspirin NSAIDs was associated with an increased risk of atrial fibrillation or flutter. Compared with non-users, the association was strongest for new users, with a 40-70% increase in relative risk (lowest for non-selective NSAIDs and highest for COX 2 inhibitors). Our study thus adds evidence that atrial fibrillation or flutter needs to be added to the cardiovascular risks to be considered when prescribing NSAIDs."

I bet this guy was takng NSAIDS the whole time he was juicing and training. I have never in my life taken anything other than aspirin
 

nothuman

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Go read studies on NSAIDS especially naproxen and cardiovascular risks:

"Advil, Aleve Raise Heart Attack Risk: FDA Warns. The U.S Food and Drug Administration on Thursday strengthened the warning labels for widely used painkillers like ibuprofen and naproxen, saying they can increase the risk of heart attack or stroke"

" Use of non-aspirin NSAIDs was associated with an increased risk of atrial fibrillation or flutter. Compared with non-users, the association was strongest for new users, with a 40-70% increase in relative risk (lowest for non-selective NSAIDs and highest for COX 2 inhibitors). Our study thus adds evidence that atrial fibrillation or flutter needs to be added to the cardiovascular risks to be considered when prescribing NSAIDs."

I bet this guy was takng NSAIDS the whole time he was juicing and training. I have never in my life taken anything other than aspirin
I'm well aware how detrimental NSAID's are long term and I'm the last person you need to show studies to about that, but to pinpoint specifically that as to why his heart, kydneys, and liver were all screwed up when his blood pressure and resting heart rate were sky high from the long term high dose steroids is just funny.
 

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