Nothing we say is going to help your situation homie.
Get some authentic, properly-dosed products and start using them, and then re-assess the situation.
It is worthless and silly to try and figure this out, with bunk or underdosed gear, it is just a mindfuck
I agree, but as mentioned I really didn't start this thread for advice on my current cycle, I just found the topic interesting as far as if you guys use more AAS to cut so you can grow while cutting, or less because you feel it is a waste of gear.
As far as the original topic is concerned, I do my cutting on test/tren cruises, and will add in T3 or ECA if I need a little kick.
Slow and steady, less is more, etc etcetera...I save big doses for big gains lol
Interesting. TNH has told me the same, that he just maintains strength with lower doses while cutting, and using a ton of gear doesn't help anything. But he needs a ton of gear when gaining.
Lets say for example that your base calorie intake is 3500 a day for you to maintain 200lbs at 10% bodyfat with no steroids.
We know that steroids help raise metabolism and aid in nutrient partitioning effectivly raising our base calorie needs by adding hormones.
So we start off with 400mg test and 400mg EQ a week at 4000 cals , this allows us to maintain 215lbs at 10%
we add 200mg test and 400mg tren , this is gong to greatly add to raise the metabolisim , so your now in a calorie defecit at a point that you were in a calorie surplus when you were clean.
Rotate out more effecient fuels (carbs) and replace with protein which greatly lower the chance of adding fat but increases the ability to add muscle. This new dose brings you to 215 pounds at say 7%.
At this point you are about 7-8 weeks out , add in some Letro to keep estroneg nulified , add in some mast at 300-400mg , again raising the metabolism possibly allowing you to add some calories just adding fuel to the fire thats growing muscle. , with a little T3 and ECY added in you will be burning the shit out of fat , maintain a calorie surplus over what you normaly have allowing you to add muscle and lose fat.
Its much more involved than that and everybody is very differant and it would have to be tweeked to meet each persons needs , that was just a very rought idea of what i meant
Good stuff. As far as AAS raising metabolism though, is this proven? Because whenever I start any AAS I gain weight crazy fast, both fat and muscle. Last cycle I ate maintenance calories (~2800) and gained 18lb the first 6 weeks, a ton of fat and water and muscle. A friend of mine was cutting on 1800 calories naturally, added test and instantly weight loss stopped and he didn't look any leaner. We were both previously fat when we were younger
I have also read AAS, particularly Tren, lowers thyroid function. When I add in T3 the above issues do not occur. I seem to add both fat and muscle significantly faster on cycle.
This poll is missing an important option:
* Higher, I am more likely to lose less muscle that way
It would be very, very uncommon to add lean mass while cutting for a competition. Even for those who are genetically gifted, and on gear. At some point, it's thermodynamics--how can you add muscle if you're in a caloric deficit for 12 to 16 weeks?
The point of using more gear during cutting than bulking is to save every last possible shred of muscle you earned before you started cutting.
I guess that is kind of getting to the point then. For instance TNH has said he does not gain muscle while cutting if he is on a low-moderate amount of gear AND does not gain muscle while cutting if on a high amount of gear. So rather than waste the gear he just uses what he has to in order to maintain.
So since you think it's so uncommon to gain while cutting would you then agree that one should use whatever amount is necessary to maintain the muscle, but any more would not help anything? So if 1000mg maintains everything, 2000mg would be pointless?
If your gear is quality, there is no way you are losing muscle. Most people think they lose muscle dieting because once they get lean they realize how small they actually are LOL.
Well there's no way for me to completely verify the quality of my gear, but as for muscle loss I'm going by strength gains. Which were maintained and even increased a bit for the first 4 weeks while the oral was in the cycle, but dropped in the last 2 weeks or so even with a theoretically higher overall dose.
Meh, maybe I'm the only one but I think using AAS to cut is a waste of a cycle and money. IMO, AAS should be used to put on muscle/mass, and then the cutting should take place after. Clen, cardio, and diet can go a long ways in cutting.
How do you not lose a ton of muscle this way? My first cycle ever (4 week oral cycle) was last winter, definitely had not reached my natural genetic potential yet, and gained a lot of size and strength and in the 3 months post cycle I gained for the first month then tried cutting for the next 2 months and lost everything I had gained.
and yes, proper PCT was done and Test levels were back to normal, actually a bit higher.
Very similar to Gunsmiths way. I cruise then blast. When I do cutting blast I start with very basics - test e or c with npp or eq and an oral-dbol or drol. Start with low to moderate dosage and increase over 6-8 weeks. Diet stays the same in calorie surplus just increasing cardio ew too. This way i regain muscle from previous blasts, even gain a bit more and lose some fat. Over next 6-8 weeks I switch from e,c to prop, npp,eq to tren add mast,winny-again increasing dosages a bit while the weeks goes, adding a bit more cardio and this time - lower the carbs, adding more protein. I stay at the same weight but get leanertand leaner every day of the last 6-8 weeks.
Regarding the bolded part, I guess that's an important distinction, that you gained muscle you had previously lost, not new muscle. In my 2nd cycle which was a cut I gained strength and a bit of size, but most was just regained from what I had lost after my 1st cycle.
Clearly you have never dieted then.
so true...tell me how your bench or squat looks after 16 weeks
So would you two say it's almost inevitable that one will lose some size and strength while cutting even on cycle? I started this cut not much bigger or stronger than my previous best, so I was hoping with the right gear/doses I could at least maintain everything, and ideally gain a bit, while cutting down from 16% to 7-8% (never been below 11-12% because of how much muscle I would lose from cutting naturally after about the 8-12 week mark)
What my plan is this time was 6 weeks on cycle to cut, 4 weeks off to gain a little back if I lost anything, another 6 weeks on cycle to cut, etc so it wasn't one big long cut and I could ideally make the next result with time on and time off be that I end much leaner than before but at least as big and strong as when I started. All was going in that direction for the first 4-5 weeks but taking the oral out made a big difference. Not sure if it's because it's so much stronger or the test/tren is underdosed...probably a combination but next cycle will be all VIP gear (as far as the injectables go) so we'll see how that goes. Today is the end of my first 6 weeks so ideally I'll drop a few pounds of water weight and be able to gain a bit of strength by increasing calories back to maintenance and dropping the T3.