HELP! Still shooting blanks after 3 years on hCG and 9 months on hCG + Clomid

[John99Test]

What made you decide to go off everything for a full year rather than try HMG sooner?

Yea I second that question

 

[Wonton]

I'll repeat one last time in this thread used to be a doctor Dr g I believe it was he had his own threat people would ask him questions from that thread I put together a protocol that he outlined bits and pieces here and there and one of my friends I put them on it he wasn't able to have kids for a year and the doctor gave up on him and within 4 months his wife was pregnant


Then you got another kid as well so if you can get that thread resurrected or if it's still around lots of information in there

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Assuming you went off the TRT while doing this yes?

Nope I stayed on TRT the entire time, I just reduced my dose of Testosterone from 105mg to 70mg and added in the HCG and HMG. Since HCG and HMG directly bypass any negative feedback loops it seemed to work out, never understood why people stopped TRT altogether.

 

[bellicose]

What made you decide to go off everything for a full year rather than try HMG sooner?

HMG was not as readily available back then. It was right around the 2008 olympics and alot of sources got shut down or went dark for a while. Also, I did not realize it would be so hard to bounce back and wanted to give me body time with just a simple clomid protocol

 

[John99Test]

Nope I stayed on TRT the entire time, I just reduced my dose of Testosterone from 105mg to 70mg and added in the HCG and HMG. Since HCG and HMG directly bypass any negative feedback loops it seemed to work out, never understood why people stopped TRT altogether.

If I can do this my life will literally be saved.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

If I can do this my life will literally be saved.

I admit, I was surprised it worked so quickly. I wasn't even considering fertility until after using that protocol for 9+ months if lucky. Happened out of the blue to be honest. I started the first 3 months with just HCG 200iu each day, 2 months after adding in HMG she was pregnant.

 

[John99Test]

I admit, I was surprised it worked so quickly. I wasn't even considering fertility until after using that protocol for 9+ months if lucky. Happened out of the blue to be honest. I started the first 3 months with just HCG 200iu each day, 2 months after adding in HMG she was pregnant.

Means there’s hope for someone like me. I’m preparing for the day to begin. I have more HCG and HMG than you can shake a stick at. Can you let me know your exact protocol if you don’t mind man. It’s been weighing on me for years kind of just putting it off. It’s the last piece of the puzzle (a child) in my life and I’m good. Awesome wife, awesome job, awesome house, awesome cars, awesome dog lol. None of it means shit though without a kid (my opinion really but my opinion is all that matters at the end of the day in my own life)

 

[Needmassquick]

I'll repeat one last time in this thread used to be a doctor Dr g I believe it was he had his own threat people would ask him questions from that thread I put together a protocol that he outlined bits and pieces here and there and one of my friends I put them on it he wasn't able to have kids for a year and the doctor gave up on him and within 4 months his wife was pregnant


Then you got another kid as well so if you can get that thread resurrected or if it's still around lots of information in there

I remember the thread but can't find it. I'm not sure what else could be advised though, I'm literally doing everything possible. Off TRT, on HCG, on FSH, on Enclomiphene. Could perhaps add an AI, not sure if it would be helpful.

 

[Wonton]

I remember the thread but can't find it. I'm not sure what else could be advised though, I'm literally doing everything possible. Off TRT, on HCG, on FSH, on Enclomiphene. Could perhaps add an AI, not sure if it would be helpful.

Yeah it's the whole protocol I remember from the guy I don't remember the protocol but I remember that certain things would overlap and then drop off
There is definitely a sequence to everything and everything ending within the appropriate time and appropriate order

As far as you are done PM maybe one of the mods big mods here older mods that have been around for years and years I got the power to maybe search on the servers for you

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Means there’s hope for someone like me. I’m preparing for the day to begin. I have more HCG and HMG than you can shake a stick at. Can you let me know your exact protocol if you don’t mind man. It’s been weighing on me for years kind of just putting it off. It’s the last piece of the puzzle (a child) in my life and I’m good. Awesome wife, awesome job, awesome house, awesome cars, awesome dog lol. None of it means shit though without a kid (my opinion really but my opinion is all that matters at the end of the day in my own life)

From what I've read it's pretty rare to blast things like HMG and HCG for an extended period of time and not regain some sort of fertility.

 

[Needmassquick]

Sci-Hub | Clomiphene Citrate: A Correlation of Its Effect on Sperm Concentration and Morphology, Total Gonadotropins, ICSH, Estrogen and Testosterone Excretion, and Testicular Cytology in Normal Men ¹ | 10.1210/jcem-29-5-638

sci-hub.hkvisa.net

This is super interesting to me. Doses of 50mg clomid increased sperm concentration in normal men, but 200-400 strongly decreased it. The crazy thing is, the higher the clomid dose the higher the urinary excretion of gonadotropins i.e. even though the gonadotropins (LH and FSH) continued to go up the high dose clomid still somehow made them azoospermic. No idea how that happens mechanistically but it seems independent of the gonadotropins. Somehow clomid that high is actually suppressive to the testicles directly? Testosterone also increased with higher doses as well, so it was specifically the sperm count that dropped in response.

My next guess would be estrogen related but the estrogen of the 50mg participants increased to a similar degree to the estrogen of the 400mg participants.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Sci-Hub | Clomiphene Citrate: A Correlation of Its Effect on Sperm Concentration and Morphology, Total Gonadotropins, ICSH, Estrogen and Testosterone Excretion, and Testicular Cytology in Normal Men ¹ | 10.1210/jcem-29-5-638

sci-hub.hkvisa.net

This is super interesting to me. Doses of 50mg clomid increased sperm concentration in normal men, but 200-400 strongly decreased it. The crazy thing is, the higher the clomid dose the higher the urinary excretion of gonadotropins i.e. even though the gonadotropins (LH and FSH) continued to go up the high dose clomid still somehow made them azoospermic. No idea how that happens mechanistically but it seems independent of the gonadotropins. Somehow clomid that high is actually suppressive to the testicles directly? Testosterone also increased with higher doses as well, so it was specifically the sperm count that dropped in response.

My next guess would be estrogen related but the estrogen of the 50mg participants increased to a similar degree to the estrogen of the 400mg participants.

Tried Clomid over a decade ago when I thought I might want to try and come off TRT, will never use it again. Not only didn't respond well to it myself with the side effects, but HMG and HCG replace the gonadotropins LH and FSH inducing spermatogenesis, so unless forced to come off TRT not really sure why it would be needed.

 

[Needmassquick]

Tried Clomid over a decade ago when I thought I might want to try and come off TRT, will never use it again. Not only didn't respond well to it myself with the side effects, but HMG and HCG replace the gonadotropins LH and FSH inducing spermatogenesis, so unless forced to come off TRT not really sure why it would be needed.

You're right it should be unnecessary. Because I hadn't seen results yet several members here were pushing saying I should try clomid because "why not". I don't think it will generally harm things, but it's clear from several of these studies that high doses actually can be an issue and anecdotally many get side effects. I'm only on 25mg of enclomiphene and have had no side effects. Things I've noticed are an even higher libido and a drop in water weight.

There are some studies showing that in those taking HCG only, adding clomid on top of it resulted in additional production of LH and FSH. So in theory with me taking enclomiphene I might get additional LH and FSH stimulation but not sure. I'll be getting blood work in 2 weeks so I'll know then (I'll know if I see LH above zero and possibly if FSH is higher than expected based on current dose).

 

[bad rad]

Thought many might find this interesting since it's a semi-common dosage. Another study suggest 2000iu is the maximum effective dose per administration.

We measured testicular human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) receptors in 30 infertile men either before
or 1, 3, 5, 7, or 14 days after a single administration of 5000 IU of hCG. For 5 days the administration
of hCG significantly reduced the testicular binding of I2’I-hCG compared with that of the testes before
administration. From the 7th day the binding capacity began to increase and returned to the preadminis-
tration level 14 days after the treatment. Occupied hCG binding sites accounted for about half of the
reduction in binding sites on the day after administration of hCG. After this time, however, the occu-
pancy did not contribute so much to the reduction in binding sites. These findings suggest that the
reduction in testicular hCG binding sites after a single administration of 5000 IU of hCG is due to not
only occupancy but also down-regulation of the binding sites.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3109/01485018808987052

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Lowest effective dose is what I personally went with at 200iu / day on HCG. HMG seems to contribute more to sperm production in my experience, so now that the wife is pregnant I'll just stay on 100iu HCG / day until we decide to have another child then add back in HMG.

Thought many might find this interesting since it's a semi-common dosage. Another study suggest 2000iu is the maximum effective dose per administration.

We measured testicular human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) receptors in 30 infertile men either before
or 1, 3, 5, 7, or 14 days after a single administration of 5000 IU of hCG. For 5 days the administration
of hCG significantly reduced the testicular binding of I2’I-hCG compared with that of the testes before
administration. From the 7th day the binding capacity began to increase and returned to the preadminis-
tration level 14 days after the treatment. Occupied hCG binding sites accounted for about half of the
reduction in binding sites on the day after administration of hCG. After this time, however, the occu-
pancy did not contribute so much to the reduction in binding sites. These findings suggest that the
reduction in testicular hCG binding sites after a single administration of 5000 IU of hCG is due to not
only occupancy but also down-regulation of the binding sites.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3109/01485018808987052

 

[bad rad]

Lowest effective dose is what I personally went with at 200iu / day on HCG. HMG seems to contribute more to sperm production in my experience, so now that the wife is pregnant I'll just stay on 100iu HCG / day until we decide to have another child then add back in HMG.

200iu hCG daily is my personal sweet spot when I have enough of it.

 

[Needmassquick]

Lowest effective dose is what I personally went with at 200iu / day on HCG. HMG seems to contribute more to sperm production in my experience, so now that the wife is pregnant I'll just stay on 100iu HCG / day until we decide to have another child then add back in HMG.

So you'll be on 100iu/day of HCG for at least 1-2 years then? Will you be taking TRT on top of that?

I still need to figure out what to do once my girl gets pregnant. Might just try to maintain on just HCG alone or might try to get natural function back. If it doesn't work then I'll be forced back to TRT.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

So you'll be on 100iu/day of HCG for at least 1-2 years then? Will you be taking TRT on top of that?

I still need to figure out what to do once my girl gets pregnant. Might just try to maintain on just HCG alone or might try to get natural function back. If it doesn't work then I'll be forced back to TRT.

Yeah I plan to just start on 100iu HCG on top of my TRT then increase it and add back in HMG later when needed.