All things insulin- my take, opinion and experience.

[bigzzz]

Mike Arnold wrote an article about insulin for physique enhancement. In the thread he said fast acting is best pre, during or after resistance exercise. He also said the meal after training is completed, it's okay to go out to eat and get a steak meal, fries or potatoes, and smash some dessert.

If you use slin, while it's active , use mainly low fat, low fat as possible, or zero fat. While the insulin is active, it's a recipe for unnecessary excess body fat eating any more than 15-20% fat and that is pushing it. Milos said no more than 30 grams fat per 150 grams carbs . I do agree with Mike Arnolds advice about pinning faster acting insulin, around workout, resistance exercise training.

I was always in the understanding fats have to be low when the insulin is active, so with rapid slin like 5 hours. Not the whole day, correct?

 

[bbxtreme]

Are you suggesting that Nick Walker is using slin only to be in a minor surplus? Wouldnt a minor surplus defeat the purpose of even using slin?

Read my FULL post on this. Nick Walker is likely around 5-6g of gear and 20 units plus of HGH AND uses insulin with a crazy strict diet under Matt.

You’re trying to isolate things and not reading everything. Either that or you’re bored as shit and just asking dumb shit. Either way read my FULL thread again and then see if you have a question. 99.9% of people shouldn’t as I laid it all out.

 

[bbxtreme]

I was always in the understanding fats have to be low when the insulin is active, so with rapid slin like 5 hours. Not the whole day, correct?

Asked and answered in the thread already. But that is correct for most people who use insulin on all workout days.

 

[jaxino]

Matt jansen coaching Nick so I seriously don't think he uses high doses of insulin. Matt realy uses very little of it, but a lot of GH and high gear

But for LOW what numbers we are talking about? Because I have read many times that Jansen gives 6iu pre and postwo and this is a total of just 12iu...

 

[bbxtreme]

But for LOW what numbers we are talking about? Because I have read many times that Jansen gives 6iu pre and postwo and this is a total of just 12iu...

For someone like Nick I would say that’s VERY low. But @luki7788 is correct Jansen uses very little of it to my knowledge and Vu doesn’t believe in using it at all with his athletes as I stated in my OP.

 

[qbkilla]

Op correct me if I'm wrong, seems like as the thread has evolved you were reccomending 10g or so added fat, not suggesting people limit total daily fat to 10 ...so 30 total is a reasonable goal with the less the better if a skin day?

Curious if anyone has ever ate extremely low fat say less than 20g Ed for an extended period? I feel like I've seen a few people mention it, tom and a member who used to post by NMZ (forget exact username).

 

[bbxtreme]

Op correct me if I'm wrong, seems like as the thread has evolved you were reccomending 10g or so added fat, not suggesting people limit total daily fat to 10 ...so 30 total is a reasonable goal with the less the better if a skin day?

Curious if anyone has ever ate extremely low fat say less than 20g Ed for an extended period? I feel like I've seen a few people mention it, tom and a member who used to post by NMZ (forget exact username).

I’ve never put a number on it. It’s my opinion and experience that you should only have trace amounts from your food on days you use insulin and take fish or krill oil first thing AM and PM to cover essential fats.

So that means no beef, whole eggs, added oils or avacado etc on insulin days.

But if someone is able to only eat 10g of fat on a clean bodybuilding diet I’ve yet to see it. LOL that would be cod and jasmine rice all day. Which is way overkill.

Again, I’m only doing insulin two days a week on my high days, which are VERY high in carbs. And I’m pushing insulin 40 units those days. So I eliminate any added fats those days including my krill oil. Because it’s about the net totals at the end of the week so I make up for it on off days and baseline days.

But if you’re insulin on all workout days at say 5-15 units which is fully sufficient for those who can actually benefit from it or need it, then just do as I suggested above and limit your added fats and items and save those for your off days. Which should be 1-3 days per week.

It’s really beyond simple. You guys are getting way too hung up over the fat thing IMO. I feel like I’m stuck on a loop repeating myself in this thread.

 

[b-boy]

Always open to more knowledge mate what would you say is the most amount of fat you’d want to be consuming in the meals I’ve stated for my situation or of course in generals the meals around insulin use

I was under the impression that oats & whey and chicken and rice where on the leaner end of bodybuilding friendly meals

I do see a shift in the UK and USA to a degree BB scene to lower protein in favour of higher carbs could well be different in other parts of the world

@skylarr123 you have to be one of the most hilarious dudes on this entire site, stop with the "be nice and be everyone's friend" routine bro. You worrying about what everyone else does is hilarious and keeps me laughing when I read your post. Your one of the thickest dudes on this entire site and your worrying about what the fuck they do? GTFOH, these people should be begging you to tell them what you do, how you train, how you supplement, your gear protocol, and if it's "nothing special" then that's even more laughter for me. Im seriously getting tired of saying this and probably will be the last time I say it but FUCKING KEEP DOING WHAT EVER YOU HAVE BEEN DOING! If the rest of these guys start catching up with you then ok maybe ask them their methods (I honestly don't see anyone catching up to your thickness and development )

 

[bbxtreme]

@skylarr123 you have to be one of the most hilarious dudes on this entire site, stop with the "be nice and be everyone's friend" routine bro. You worrying about what everyone else does is hilarious and keeps me laughing when I read your post. Your one of the thickest dudes on this entire site and your worrying about what the fuck they do? GTFOH, these people should be begging you to tell them what you do, how you train, how you supplement, your gear protocol, and if it's "nothing special" then that's even more laughter for me. Im seriously getting tired of saying this and probably will be the last time I say it but FUCKING KEEP DOING WHAT EVER YOU HAVE BEEN DOING! If the rest of these guys start catching up with you then ok maybe ask them their methods (I honestly don't see anyone catching up to your thickness and development )

You have to admire his humility though. Lol So many guys like him get such a huge ego in this sport and just disappear, but 100% agree with you.

@skylarr123 with your build and genetics if you worked with someone like Hany, AJ or even @luki7788 who really knows how to take the brakes off and is present with their clients… you could do some damage getting a pro card and beyond.

Lean into what you’re doing and stop asking all these guys for input. If I had my knowledge with your build and genetics I’d be prepping for the Arnold.

 

[b-boy]

Yea you need to figure out the magic diet with the magic insulin protocol...LMAO
THICK!

 

[b-boy]

You have to admire his humility though. Lol So many guys like him get such a huge ego in this sport and just disappear, but 100% agree with you.

@skylarr123 with your build and genetics if you worked with someone like Hany, AJ or even @luki7788 who really knows how to take the brakes off and is present with their clients… you could do some damage getting a pro card and beyond.

Lean into what you’re doing and stop asking all these guys for input. If I had my knowledge with your build and genetics I’d be prepping for the Arnold.

I believe he has a coach already and if not, trust me he can just save his money $$$


Lol I would coach him for free = easiest job on the planet

 

[bbxtreme]

I believe he has a coach already and if not, trust me he can just save his money $$$


Lol I would coach him for free = easiest job on the planet

He does have a coach now, and agreed. I don’t even coach, but you’re right it would be the easiest client to coach as he’s hungry to learn and a super responder.

Most coaches hate clients like him because they have huge ego’s. It’s refreshing to see someone like him.

But agreed- him asking for advice on here would be like you asking for input.

 

[Elvia1023]

No surprise how this thread (great thread) has gone. Certain guys will want to know every finer detail and overthink and complicate something fairly simple and they probably won't even use the drug anyway. They just like to go over things again and again and will probably do the same in this thread 3 months from now. Others will do the same but actually use insulin but they aren't even doing the basics so there isn't that much point because they won't make good use of it.

There is no set way of doing things and many different dietary approaches can work but bbxtreme has laid it out to you so just read the thread from the start and absorb the information. It can vary in some ways but for any new guys with insulin just go with a faster acting version (ideally rapid). I personally have a balanced meal (protein, carbs and fats) approx 90 mins before taking rapid insulin. Then when it's active I take in protein and carbs with trace fats. It's really quite simple. Don't stress over 5g fat from chicken breast but I wouldn't be having ribeye steaks or other fatty meats and I wouldn't be taking in other fats whilst it is active. If you are using rapid/fast slin you can have some fats in other meals in the day.

This is not to state fats can't be used when insulin is active but just keep it simple because it will increase the chances of storing fat. This is why when using longer acting slin you have to be careful and have your diet spot on because you will be surprised how even 15g fat per meal through the day could make a difference. I firmly believe in balanced meals and I see guys stating things like but x person has 20g fat per meal. As posted certain coaches doesn't use high insulin but even if he did you have to realize some guys can do that but they are often taking 10-20iu+ hgh per day in addition to t3/t4 etc. They are also doing morning cardio every day of the year and everything is perfect.

For the standard guy on here I would recommend using rapid slin around activity. I would take in trace (no added) fats whilst it is active. I would not look at what is the min amount of carbs I can have to not go hypo and I would think how can I make the most of this insulin. So I would load up on certain nutrients whilst it is active. It depends on other factors but me personally I have fats in my meals when insulin isn't active in the same day.

If you are using long acting then I would keep that to 2 days per week (weaker bodypart training days) and have trace fats those days and have more on your off days. Even on days when consuming trace fats I would be taking in concentrated forms such as krill or fish oil (approx 3g twice daily). Fat is not your enemy and often many overcomplicate food timing and it's not hugely important in the grand scheme but when you start adding insulin into the equation it can/will make a big difference.

 

[Quadlife]

I competed this past October. AJ and I are in a strong progressive period and just upped the throttle a bit more. The goal, God permitting to do a national show by end of 2025 back in open as a light heavy. Again as the username implies- extreme. There are no half measures in this sport IMO.

Guys need to keep in mind that you are 100% spot on as you’ve said in your post about fats and insulin timing for the average person. But I’m chasing something different. We push 40 units of insulin in a short window on my high days- what I’m currently doing is NOT for 99% of people as I outlined in this thread. But of course guys think they “want” or “should” jump straight to that. They shouldn’t.

I agree with @b-boy that most people who “think” they need or should be using insulin don’t. Guys like @Quadlife are proof of that- one of the top physiques on this board, a pro and doesn’t touch insulin, nor needs it.

@bbxtreme always appreciate you bro! Love this thread super informative and I think it’s great that you shared your perspective. Just as we’ve spoken many times on this topic and others it’s true not everyone needs it. I think like you’ve discovered bodybuilding is so individual so you have to find the best formula that works for you : this includes PEDS, training, diet etc

 

[bigzzz]

Asked and answered in the thread already. But that is correct for most people who use insulin on all workout days.

Saw it later when reading the rest.

Thx anyway.

 

[luki7788]

But for LOW what numbers we are talking about? Because I have read many times that Jansen gives 6iu pre and postwo and this is a total of just 12iu...

For someone like Nick I would say that’s VERY low. But @luki7788 is correct Jansen uses very little of it to my knowledge and Vu doesn’t believe in using it at all with his athletes as I stated in my OP.

yes, Matt, from what I saw, likes to use small doses (6-10iu) 3 times a day - for breakfast, before and after training

 

[slayer37]

Slob??? Cmon now my man! You had a decent physique there and 99% of the world’s population would love to have.

Great transformation though either way! Bravo!!!

Cage

Thanks man. Body dysmorhia is real, as we all know too well!

 

[Deleted member 226465]

Haha thank you guys @bbxtreme & @b-boy appreciate your kind words and I really do hope I can do well competitively. I’m doing the first timers
PCA show here in the uk next September and then if that goes well the novice and then potentially the Britains in November.

I am very meticulous with the plan I follow now instead of looking to chop and change as it seems whatever I do seems to work which is a blessing but also means I just need to stick to something and keep at it until it no longer works.

However I do like to learn as much as I can because my goal is to go into coaching sometime in the future so the more useful knowledge the better.

For myself though this is from day 1 of getting into bodybuilding and 30 weeks later funnily enough the same bodyweight 280lbs. And for 90% of this it was done just doing the basics and not overthinking or worrying about tiny details

To the newer guys when the OG’s on here tell you that you’re missing the bigger picture they’re telling the truth other than training really damn hard I never followed any set diet or drug schedule up until this year which im
Not recommending at all but I’m saying is worrying about the 1% of the puzzle means nothing without the 99% first

Pic for reference of my 30 weeks of bodybuilding

 

[jaxino]

yes, Matt, from what I saw, likes to use small doses (6-10iu) 3 times a day - for breakfast, before and after training

Now take it with a grain of salt, but it seems that the insulin taken first thing am should increase hunger during the whole day.

Is that possible that since all his guys train low volume, a low dose insulin is enough?

 

[bbxtreme]

No surprise how this thread (great thread) has gone. Certain guys will want to know every finer detail and overthink and complicate something fairly simple and they probably won't even use the drug anyway. They just like to go over things again and again and will probably do the same in this thread 3 months from now. Others will do the same but actually use insulin but they aren't even doing the basics so there isn't that much point because they won't make good use of it.

There is no set way of doing things and many different dietary approaches can work but bbxtreme has laid it out to you so just read the thread from the start and absorb the information. It can vary in some ways but for any new guys with insulin just go with a faster acting version (ideally rapid). I personally have a balanced meal (protein, carbs and fats) approx 90 mins before taking rapid insulin. Then when it's active I take in protein and carbs with trace fats. It's really quite simple. Don't stress over 5g fat from chicken breast but I wouldn't be having ribeye steaks or other fatty meats and I wouldn't be taking in other fats whilst it is active. If you are using rapid/fast slin you can have some fats in other meals in the day.

This is not to state fats can't be used when insulin is active but just keep it simple because it will increase the chances of storing fat. This is why when using longer acting slin you have to be careful and have your diet spot on because you will be surprised how even 15g fat per meal through the day could make a difference. I firmly believe in balanced meals and I see guys stating things like but x person has 20g fat per meal. As posted certain coaches doesn't use high insulin but even if he did you have to realize some guys can do that but they are often taking 10-20iu+ hgh per day in addition to t3/t4 etc. They are also doing morning cardio every day of the year and everything is perfect.

For the standard guy on here I would recommend using rapid slin around activity. I would take in trace (no added) fats whilst it is active. I would not look at what is the min amount of carbs I can have to not go hypo and I would think how can I make the most of this insulin. So I would load up on certain nutrients whilst it is active. It depends on other factors but me personally I have fats in my meals when insulin isn't active in the same day.

If you are using long acting then I would keep that to 2 days per week (weaker bodypart training days) and have trace fats those days and have more on your off days. Even on days when consuming trace fats I would be taking in concentrated forms such as krill or fish oil (approx 3g twice daily). Fat is not your enemy and often many overcomplicate food timing and it's not hugely important in the grand scheme but when you start adding insulin into the equation it can/will make a big difference.

As always, well said at covering it all and outlining it for guys. For anyone skipping to the end of this thread great summary.