17 a oral question

[PHIL HERNON]

How many feel a significant difference using naringenin before taking orals?

 

[bigman1]

hey Phil how do you mean, do you mean as an antioxidant or an anti inflammatory? Or do you mean since the main source can be grapefruit do you mean for absoration of the 17A?

I heard it is a good antioxidant and carb metabolism promoter, but I would think R-ALA would be just as good as there are many studies to show this.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

hey Phil how do you mean, do you mean as an antioxidant or an anti inflammatory? Or do you mean since the main source can be grapefruit do you mean for absoration of the 17A?

I heard it is a good antioxidant and carb metabolism promoter, but I would think R-ALA would be just as good as there are many studies to show this.

For extending the half life

 

[gstracer]

whats the real diff between r-ala and just ala?? would you notice a diff between the 2

 

[bigman1]

out of respect to Phil please do not Hijack the thread and make it into an R-ALA thread.

Sorry Phil I have not used it to give you an answer to your question.

 

[MightyJohn]

For extending the half life

I was also under the assumption it was for absorption

 

[mountaindog1]

Hi Phil - back in the 90's, Parillo had me use it with caffeine to keep the lipolytic effect of caffeine rolling..not really sure if it helped or not though??

JM

 

[myosin]

6 of 1

I was also under the assumption it was for absorption

Basically the same thing MJ- the grapefruit juice decreases the activity of the enzyme cytochrome P450 which is primarily responsible for drug metabolism... By decreasing it's activity you will prolong it's half life simply because there is more drug left... More drug left will allow for more absorption.

 

[bigman1]

James Maskalyk
Editorial Fellow, CMAJ

Grapefruit juice interacts with a number of medications. This unusual discovery was made serendipitously in 1989 during an experiment designed to test the effect of ethanol on a calcium-channel blocker.1 The observed response was later determined to be due to the grapefruit juice delivery vehicle rather than the alcohol. In the past decade, the list of drug interactions with grapefruit juice has expanded to include several classes of medication, precipitating a recent advisory from Health Canada.2

The interaction: As little as 250 mL of grapefruit juice can change the metabolism of some drugs.3 This drug–food interaction occurs because of a common pathway involving a specific isoform of cytochrome P450 — CYP3A4 — present in both the liver and the intestinal wall. Studies suggest that grapefruit juice exerts its effect primarily at the level of the intestine.4

After ingestion, a substrate contained in the grapefruit binds to the intestinal isoenzyme, impairing first-pass metabolism directly and causing a sustained decrease in CYP3A4 protein expression.5 Within 4 hours of ingestion, a reduction in the effective CYP3A4 concentration occurs, with effects lasting up to 24 hours.6 The net result is inhibition of drug metabolism in the intestine and increased oral bio availability. Because of the prolonged response, separating the intake of the drug and the juice does not prevent interference.

Individuals express CYP3A4 in different proportions, those with the highest intestinal concentration being most susceptible to grapefruit juice–drug interactions.5 An effect is seen with the whole fruit as well as its juice, so caution should be exercised with both.7 The precise chemical compound in grapefruit that causes the interaction has not been identified. There is no similar reaction with orange juice, although there is some suspicion that "sour oranges" such as the Seville variety, may have some effect.8 A recent study, however, that tested the known interference of grapefruit juice with cyclosporine showed no similar effect with Seville oranges.9

There is some interest in the potential therapeutic benefit of adding grapefruit juice to a drug regimen to increase oral bioavailability.3 The limitation is the individual variation in patient response. However, if the chemical that causes grapefruit's CYP3A4 inhibition is elucidated, there may be an opportunity to modulate that pathway in a controlled fashion.

What to do: Much of the data obtained on grapefruit juice–drug interactions involved measuring serum drug concentrations in small numbers of healthy volunteers. Because of the limited data and only occasional case reports,10 it is difficult to quantify the clinical significance for individual patients. One may assume that the interaction occurs primarily with oral medicines, and only with those that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, with the consequence being increased oral bioavailability, higher serum drug concentrations and associated adverse effects.

Physicians should review medication lists often, with the goal of warning patients about adverse interactions. A list of medicines with which patients should not consume grapefruit is provided in Table 1.3,11,12 In the case of several medications that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, but for which a clinical effect has not been elucidated or is theoretical, patients should be advised to consume grapefruit cautiously and be monitored for toxicity.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

James Maskalyk
Editorial Fellow, CMAJ

Grapefruit juice interacts with a number of medications. This unusual discovery was made serendipitously in 1989 during an experiment designed to test the effect of ethanol on a calcium-channel blocker.1 The observed response was later determined to be due to the grapefruit juice delivery vehicle rather than the alcohol. In the past decade, the list of drug interactions with grapefruit juice has expanded to include several classes of medication, precipitating a recent advisory from Health Canada.2

The interaction: As little as 250 mL of grapefruit juice can change the metabolism of some drugs.3 This drug–food interaction occurs because of a common pathway involving a specific isoform of cytochrome P450 — CYP3A4 — present in both the liver and the intestinal wall. Studies suggest that grapefruit juice exerts its effect primarily at the level of the intestine.4

After ingestion, a substrate contained in the grapefruit binds to the intestinal isoenzyme, impairing first-pass metabolism directly and causing a sustained decrease in CYP3A4 protein expression.5 Within 4 hours of ingestion, a reduction in the effective CYP3A4 concentration occurs, with effects lasting up to 24 hours.6 The net result is inhibition of drug metabolism in the intestine and increased oral bio availability. Because of the prolonged response, separating the intake of the drug and the juice does not prevent interference.

Individuals express CYP3A4 in different proportions, those with the highest intestinal concentration being most susceptible to grapefruit juice–drug interactions.5 An effect is seen with the whole fruit as well as its juice, so caution should be exercised with both.7 The precise chemical compound in grapefruit that causes the interaction has not been identified. There is no similar reaction with orange juice, although there is some suspicion that "sour oranges" such as the Seville variety, may have some effect.8 A recent study, however, that tested the known interference of grapefruit juice with cyclosporine showed no similar effect with Seville oranges.9

There is some interest in the potential therapeutic benefit of adding grapefruit juice to a drug regimen to increase oral bioavailability.3 The limitation is the individual variation in patient response. However, if the chemical that causes grapefruit's CYP3A4 inhibition is elucidated, there may be an opportunity to modulate that pathway in a controlled fashion.

What to do: Much of the data obtained on grapefruit juice–drug interactions involved measuring serum drug concentrations in small numbers of healthy volunteers. Because of the limited data and only occasional case reports,10 it is difficult to quantify the clinical significance for individual patients. One may assume that the interaction occurs primarily with oral medicines, and only with those that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, with the consequence being increased oral bioavailability, higher serum drug concentrations and associated adverse effects.

Physicians should review medication lists often, with the goal of warning patients about adverse interactions. A list of medicines with which patients should not consume grapefruit is provided in Table 1.3,11,12 In the case of several medications that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, but for which a clinical effect has not been elucidated or is theoretical, patients should be advised to consume grapefruit cautiously and be monitored for toxicity.

Pomelos, recently , are linked to this same effect on CYP3A4.......

 

[bigman1]

I wonder then if a prodcut called PECTASOL-C would be a good aditive for this reason, as it also has studies to show that it helps the prostate and can also detox body of heavy metals more Mercury then any other. Thoughts?

 

[EDED]

my problem with this is,,,,is it better for the liver or worse?

inhibitors of liver enzymes are they beneficial or inducers of liver enzyems are better?

you are increasing potency and the duration of the drug....better growth possibly, maybe you could use less, but if the oral comes with harsh sides,,,your body will have to endure more of that,,,if the oral is bad for prostate hairline or nips or blood pressure, expect longer stronger sides....and better gains lol


oh nothing based on science,,,its just my opinion.

 

[lucian]

i had a strange effect once from pineapple.i ate a few slices and about 15 min later took jack3d by usp labs! it hit me so fast and so strong it was like a huge rush! my face tingles from the beta alanine...and i was freakin out.
i didnt know why that day it hit me like that. i use jack3d all the time....and then i remember something about pineapple making oral meds work better or stronger.

can you get the naringenin in tablet form?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

i had a strange effect once from pineapple.i ate a few slices and about 15 min later took jack3d by usp labs! it hit me so fast and so strong it was like a huge rush! my face tingles from the beta alanine...and i was freakin out.
i didnt know why that day it hit me like that. i use jack3d all the time....and then i remember something about pineapple making oral meds work better or stronger.

can you get the naringenin in tablet form?

Yes it is Lucian........but there may be something else causing it also besides naringenin

 

[lucian]

Yes it is Lucian........but there may be something else causing it also besides naringenin

is it specific to pineapple? so it would be better just to eat a few slices than take the tablet?

 

[bboveri]

Anyone know where to get capped naringin?

 

[Bolan]

Yrs ago, our Pl'ing coach would have us drink grapefruit juice with our Cheque drops. Before Max lifts or meets.