Anyone use a CPAP machine

[gonenatty]

I have a sleep evaluation set up next week to find out if I have sleep apnea. I get 7-8 hours of sleep however, its never deep sleep. Within 2-3 hours of being awake I feel tired already. Energy is low most of the time, I live off caffiene. Just wondering if anyone else uses a CPAP machine and what your experience is with it? better/worse sleep? Comfortable?

 

[tri-terror]

I don't use one personally, but I know from my patients that if you have sleep apnea it's like night and day difference.

 

[Druss]

try a memory foam mattress, sleep ap is worse when u sleep on your back, w/mem foam, u can sleep on your side without getting numb arms, which is what makes us sleep too much on our back

 

[mas1derful]

I've been using one for about 8 months. It wasnt hard to get use too. You will feel like a new man. It is a night and day difference how you feel and how your body recovers. I was drinking double lattes all day long now a tall drip. Starbucks loved me. You will not sleep without it once you experience the difference

 

[gonenatty]

thanks for answers. Yeah im hoping i will get more restful sleep and feel better. I hear the same that everyone swears by it that uses it and wont leave home to stay anywhere else without bringing it.

 

[kid1dakota]

I have a sleep evaluation set up next week to find out if I have sleep apnea. I get 7-8 hours of sleep however, its never deep sleep. Within 2-3 hours of being awake I feel tired already. Energy is low most of the time, I live off caffiene. Just wondering if anyone else uses a CPAP machine and what your experience is with it? better/worse sleep? Comfortable?

it is something you definately have to get used to sleeping with.I have had it for years and just recently started FORCING myself to keep the damn thing on all night.
A pulmonologist that is a friend of my best friend who is an interventional radiologist put the fear of god in me about not using it.We were on the golf course and by the end of the round I was scared of what this condition can lead to.He has seen the end results and it doesnt sound like something I want to live through.
It took me THREE sleep studies for me to sleep long enough for them to diagnose it.Get to sleep again so they could find the proper adjustment level for my CPAP.When you are sleeping they monitor O2 levels ,brain activity,heart rate etc.. then they adjust the CPAP while sleeping to bring things to normal range.

 

[123cctv]

I have a sleep evaluation set up next week to find out if I have sleep apnea. I get 7-8 hours of sleep however, its never deep sleep. Within 2-3 hours of being awake I feel tired already.

Many are unaware that a side effect of synthetic GH, is sleep apnea. Doctors will diagnose you and determine whether or not you've stopped breathing off an on throughout the night -- all too often blaming the apnea on excessive fatty tissue obstructing the throats airway during sleep. Wait till you hear they're a bit puzzled when they conclude you're not overweight! Some clinics will even recommend surgery. However why would you opt for surgery when you're probably like most BB'ers who have little, if any BF?

The point here is this -- if you're not overweight, yet still are experiencing SP, then odds are this is due to excessive GH usage. Further and most importantly, your throat isn't becoming obstructed during sleep! Instead, you simply stop breathing for short durations. Of course, when this happens you're not obtaining a deep restful sleep and will wake up repeatedly throughout the night, whether aware of the episodes or not, possibly gasping for air with a snort or without. It's when you wake up breathing extremely heavily, as if you've been holding your breath or are simply out of breath -- if you're a light sleeper it's possible to figure out your throat is not the problem -- it's just that you've stopped breathing. I finally realized this myself (as I have sleep apnea) that my throat wasn't closing or obstructed. Yet I quit breathing now and then, even during the day for no reason whatsoever. It's hard to catch this during the day as it's an unconscious action.

Anyhow once you've concluded the reason for your SP AND if it's GH related, you have only two *smart* choices to follow. First, don't consider surgery. Though it may open up your airway a bit more, if your apnea isn't due obstruction, then surgery isn't a fix.

1. Get a CPAP machine. Able to be obtained via the net without a prescription or evaluation.
OR
2. Stop taking synthetic GH, though it will take months to correct.

 

[kid1dakota]

Many are unaware that a side effect of synthetic GH, is sleep apnea. Doctors will diagnose you and determine whether or not you've stopped breathing off an on throughout the night -- all too often blaming the apnea on excessive fatty tissue obstructing the throats airway during sleep. Wait till you hear they're a bit puzzled when they conclude you're not overweight! Some clinics will even recommend surgery. However why would you opt for surgery when you're probably like most BB'ers who have little, if any BF?

The point here is this -- if you're not overweight, yet still are experiencing SP, then odds are this is due to excessive GH usage. Further and most importantly, your throat isn't becoming obstructed during sleep! Instead, you simply stop breathing for short durations. Of course, when this happens you're not obtaining a deep restful sleep and will wake up repeatedly throughout the night, whether aware of the episodes or not, possibly gasping for air with a snort or without. It's when you wake up breathing extremely heavily, as if you've been holding your breath or are simply out of breath -- if you're a light sleeper it's possible to figure out your throat is not the problem -- it's just that you've stopped breathing. I finally realized this myself (as I have sleep apnea) that my throat wasn't closing or obstructed. Yet I quit breathing now and then, even during the day for no reason whatsoever. It's hard to catch this during the day as it's an unconscious action.

Anyhow once you've concluded the reason for your SP AND if it's GH related, you have only two *smart* choices to follow. First, don't consider surgery. Though it may open up your airway a bit more, if your apnea isn't due obstruction, then surgery isn't a fix.

1. Get a CPAP machine. Able to be obtained via the net without a prescription or evaluation.
OR
2. Stop taking synthetic GH, though it will take months to correct.

Testosterone is contra-indicated for people with sleep apnea.I have read the HGH insert and not seen a contra-indication.

The list of possible medications or substances mentioned in sources as possibe causes of Sleep apnea includes:

Beractant
Dormicum
Fluoxymesterone
Halotestin (or any testosterone)
Midazolam Hydrochloride
Survanta
Versed

And you dont want to buy a CPAP off the net,lol.They are set up according to the results of a sleep study.The clinician monitors your pulse ox and sets the CPAP to get you in normal O2 range.

When you're awake, throat muscles help keep your airway stiff and open so air can flow into your lungs. When you sleep, these muscles are more relaxed. Normally, the relaxed throat muscles don't stop your airway from staying open to allow air into your lungs.

But if you have obstructive sleep apnea, your airways can be blocked or narrowed during sleep because:

Your throat muscles and tongue relax more than normal.
Your tongue and tonsils (tissue masses in the back of your mouth) are large compared to the opening into your windpipe.
You're overweight. The extra soft fat tissue can thicken the wall of the windpipe. This causes the inside opening to narrow and makes it harder to keep open.
The shape of your head and neck (bony structure) may cause a smaller airway size in the mouth and throat area.
The aging process limits the ability of brain signals to keep your throat muscles stiff during sleep. This makes it more likely that the airway will narrow or collapse.
Not enough air flows into your lungs when your airways are fully or partly blocked during sleep. This can cause loud snoring and a drop in your blood oxygen levels.

When the oxygen drops to dangerous levels, it triggers your brain to disturb your sleep. This helps tighten the upper airway muscles and open your windpipe. Normal breaths then start again, often with a loud snort or choking sound.

The frequent drops in oxygen levels and reduced sleep quality trigger the release of stress hormones. These compounds raise your heart rate and increase your risk for high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, and irregular heartbeats. The hormones also raise the risk for or worsen heart failure.

Untreated sleep apnea also can lead to changes in how your body uses energy. These changes increase your risk for obesity and diabetes.


People who have small airways in their noses, throats, or mouths also are more likely to have sleep apnea. Smaller airways may be due to the shape of these structures or allergies or other medical conditions that cause congestion in these areas.

Its usually more prolific in people with large necks whether its muscle or fat doesn't seem to matter.

If anyone thinks they have sleep apnea I would suggest going and getting it diagnosed as self -diagnosing and or medicating can be very dangerous as this condition can be potentially fatal.

 

[gonenatty]

Well,
Like the my user name says, I'm natural. No GH in me or ever been in me. I've also had the deviated septum surgery. Apparently it caused something within my nasal cavity to swell. I know I'm a light sleeper, i can wake up from just hearing someone flick on the light in another room. I'm not overweight either, been working with AlexA and he's got me dieting, I'm somewhere around 9-10% as of right now. My girlfriend has to nudge me sometimes, cause she says I stop breathing for a period of time. Which to me is scary. So I'm really hoping the evaluation will determine that I need the machine, so I can finally start getting decent sleep and have energy.

 

[Pekkerwood]

Testosterone is contra-indicated for people with sleep apnea.I have read the HGH insert and not seen a contra-indication.

The list of possible medications or substances mentioned in sources as possibe causes of Sleep apnea includes:

Beractant
Dormicum
Fluoxymesterone
Halotestin (or any testosterone)
Midazolam Hydrochloride
Survanta
Versed

And you dont want to buy a CPAP off the net,lol.They are set up according to the results of a sleep study.The clinician monitors your pulse ox and sets the CPAP to get you in normal O2 range.

When you're awake, throat muscles help keep your airway stiff and open so air can flow into your lungs. When you sleep, these muscles are more relaxed. Normally, the relaxed throat muscles don't stop your airway from staying open to allow air into your lungs.

But if you have obstructive sleep apnea, your airways can be blocked or narrowed during sleep because:

Your throat muscles and tongue relax more than normal.
Your tongue and tonsils (tissue masses in the back of your mouth) are large compared to the opening into your windpipe.
You're overweight. The extra soft fat tissue can thicken the wall of the windpipe. This causes the inside opening to narrow and makes it harder to keep open.
The shape of your head and neck (bony structure) may cause a smaller airway size in the mouth and throat area.
The aging process limits the ability of brain signals to keep your throat muscles stiff during sleep. This makes it more likely that the airway will narrow or collapse.
Not enough air flows into your lungs when your airways are fully or partly blocked during sleep. This can cause loud snoring and a drop in your blood oxygen levels.

When the oxygen drops to dangerous levels, it triggers your brain to disturb your sleep. This helps tighten the upper airway muscles and open your windpipe. Normal breaths then start again, often with a loud snort or choking sound.

The frequent drops in oxygen levels and reduced sleep quality trigger the release of stress hormones. These compounds raise your heart rate and increase your risk for high blood pressure, heart attack, stroke, and irregular heartbeats. The hormones also raise the risk for or worsen heart failure.

Untreated sleep apnea also can lead to changes in how your body uses energy. These changes increase your risk for obesity and diabetes.


People who have small airways in their noses, throats, or mouths also are more likely to have sleep apnea. Smaller airways may be due to the shape of these structures or allergies or other medical conditions that cause congestion in these areas.

Its usually more prolific in people with large necks whether its muscle or fat doesn't seem to matter.

If anyone thinks they have sleep apnea I would suggest going and getting it diagnosed as self -diagnosing and or medicating can be very dangerous as this condition can be potentially fatal.

I will respectfully disagree with your post about not buying one off the net. The systems from the net can be set configured with your prescription numbers. When I got mine, I also got the "clinical software" so I could monitor myself. Some sleep centers, depending on insurance, actully just send you home with an autopap machine with the software, read it, then set your machine accordingly. I saved over $500 dollars with the setup I got versus getting from a local vendor.

 

[Thick1]

I just was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and am using a CPAP machine which is for me hard to get used to it. I do use it nightly and I find myself constantly trying to readjust the mask. My kid says that since I have been using the CPAP I am no longer snoring so it is doing it's job.

 

[crbody]

i use the machine and i love it. I hadf the same symptoms as u before i got the machine, was tired all the time it didnt matter how much i slept. you will love it. also hgh does make u sleepy so look into that as well, it causes me to get sleepy certain times of the day

 

[123cctv]

Testosterone is contra-indicated for people with sleep apnea.I have read the HGH insert and not seen a contra-indication.

While you've made a few good points, you're still speaking out of ignorance. In other words, you're overlooking or simply ignoring other viable studies and areas of fact. First I guess I should be exact -- excessive use of GH secretes IGF-1. Note the following, taken from the:

Clinical Pharmacy Associates" Drug Class Review:

"Overproduction of growth hormone leads to increase in insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) by the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 causes such symptoms as soft tissue swelling, joint disorders, enlargements of hands, feet, and jaw, visceral overgrowth, as well as diseases such as arthritis, diabetes, colon cancer, increased death from cardiovascular events (i.e. hypertension, cardiac hypertrophy), and sleep apnea."

So here's a "cause" you forgot to add to your list or as I suspect, were ignorant of and because of this, the rest of your entire post OVERLOOKS the above "cause".

However you did say,

And you dont want to buy a CPAP off the net,lol.They are set up according to the results of a sleep study.

Again, it must be ignorance. First, Thick1 made a very good point, so I won't reiterate. However other reasons you're apparently not privy to and why one would opt to purchase the machine off of the net would be because:
1. Some SERIOUS money saved.
2. No sleep study in someone's lab - you perform your own.

There are several legit sources in which to purchase the newest CPAP devices and machines available (which I did). Your medical facility, yes that's right, that can be your source from "off the net" will send you ALL of the information (which is extremely simple I might add) to change the O2 output yourself and whenever you need to! Sleep study clinics on the other hand purposefully remove that particular programing paperwork so you MUST go back to them to make any modifications. It's really just another way for them to suck some more money out of you when you need a bit of extra help.

And by the way, next time you "lol" at reasonable solutions and factual points, you might want to be sure of you've covered your bases.

So I'll say once more, sleep apnea MAY have NOTHING to do with an obstructive airway. Your throat muscles may not have relaxed and closed off the airway. In other words, you may just have stopped breathing -- period! If this is your case, check here for another possible solution. It worked for me, but not the entire night.
**broken link removed**

By the way, the above site accurately describes the real "causes", not just the symptoms.

 

[kid1dakota]

I will respectfully disagree with your post about not buying one off the net. The systems from the net can be set configured with your prescription numbers. When I got mine, I also got the "clinical software" so I could monitor myself. Some sleep centers, depending on insurance, actully just send you home with an autopap machine with the software, read it, then set your machine accordingly. I saved over $500 dollars with the setup I got versus getting from a local vendor.

If you could obtain one as you desribe that you can set-up with sleep study results or a self diagnostic type software included I am with you as money could be saved.Although insurance paid 100% of mine.

But most I have seen for sale are ones people have obtained through their insurance and have been specifically set for their needs and setting can't be changed by the user.

I also feel people should have a sleep study which monitors O2,respiration,brain activity etc.. to really get an accurate assessment and diagnoses.

I know a few people that did sleep studies and were not diagnosed with Apnea.And they had been looking to buy Cpaps from the internet beforehand.

 

[kid1dakota]

While you've made a few good points, you're still speaking out of ignorance. In other words, you're overlooking or simply ignoring other viable studies and areas of fact. First I guess I should be exact -- excessive use of GH secretes IGF-1. Note the following, taken from the:

Clinical Pharmacy Associates" Drug Class Review:

"Overproduction of growth hormone leads to increase in insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) by the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 causes such symptoms as soft tissue swelling, joint disorders, enlargements of hands, feet, and jaw, visceral overgrowth, as well as diseases such as arthritis, diabetes, colon cancer, increased death from cardiovascular events (i.e. hypertension, cardiac hypertrophy), and sleep apnea."

So here's a "cause" you forgot to add to your list or as I suspect, were ignorant of and because of this, the rest of your entire post OVERLOOKS the above "cause".

However you did say,



Again, it must be ignorance. First, Thick1 made a very good point, so I won't reiterate. However other reasons you're apparently not privy to and why one would opt to purchase the machine off of the net would be because:
1. Some SERIOUS money saved.
2. No sleep study in someone's lab - you perform your own.

There are several legit sources in which to purchase the newest CPAP devices and machines available (which I did). Your medical facility, yes that's right, that can be your source from "off the net" will send you ALL of the information (which is extremely simple I might add) to change the O2 output yourself and whenever you need to! Sleep study clinics on the other hand purposefully remove that particular programing paperwork so you MUST go back to them to make any modifications. It's really just another way for them to suck some more money out of you when you need a bit of extra help.

And by the way, next time you "lol" at reasonable solutions and factual points, you might want to be sure of you've covered your bases.

So I'll say once more, sleep apnea MAY have NOTHING to do with an obstructive airway. Your throat muscles may not have relaxed and closed off the airway. In other words, you may just have stopped breathing -- period! If this is your case, check here for another possible solution. It worked for me, but not the entire night.
**broken link removed**

By the way, the above site accurately describes the real "causes", not just the symptoms.

Ignorant? lol!!

you got your information from a holistic herbal website!?!?! come on!! and you call me ignorant.

This ignorant guy has a Doctorate of Chiropractic and has taken all the pharmacology classes at a D.O. school.And you mr. smart guy??


i also have sleep apnea so I have educated myself and not from qauck holistic sites,lol!!!

Go ahead and get your info from bullshit holistic sites and I'll stick to peer reviewed published medical journals and University studies from accreditted teaching hospitals.

ANd YOU CAN SELF DIAGNOSE YOURSELF!!! lol lol how did that work out? Yeah who needs "someones lab" that has PROPER EQUIPMENT!!! like pulse ox,respiration and ability to monitor brain activity or being able to calibrate the cpap on the actual patient while monitoring O2 levels,while they sleep!!! thats just unneccassary,lol.IGNORANT TOO RIGHT?? This is so stupid,why am i even replying!


My post told the cause as explained in a medical journal,but they are wrong and your self diagnoses and Holistic site is right!?!? lol.

Nowhere is HGH contra-indicated for sleep apnea,nowhere.You are taking and article about a pituitary gland disorder and the fact hgh raises igf1 and making your own facts up! ignorance at its finest as theories don't mean fact based on human clinical trials! back it up 123cctv!!! lets see what you got? not a self conclusion,but facts! and from CREDIBLE SOURCES this time please,lol!!!

Don't come on arguing and showing up a gun fight with a knife.

This is comical !!

 

[123cctv]

Nowhere is HGH contra-indicated for sleep apnea.You are taking that hgh raises igf1 and making your own facts up! ignorance at its finest as theories don't mean fact based on human clinical trials!

First off let's just say, your reaction is very childish at best. None the less, to be clear, HGH DOES raise IGF-1 levels. That's a fact. That's not my "own fact". How ridiculous. Thus once again, just for kicks,...

"Overproduction of growth hormone leads to increase in insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) by the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 causes such symptoms as ...sleep apnea."

So as for the study's findings referenced, you're beef is with "The Clinical Pharmacy Associates". Further you should note, the clinincal trails were numerous from which they obtained their findings are drew their conclusions from. So, are you actually challanging this/them? If so, it might be best you expand your research past Chiropractic practice. No kidding.

Get a load of the NUMEROUS studies they reviewed:
**broken link removed**

Now if you still take issue with any of the above, including The Clinical Pharmacy Associates @ Clinical Pharmacy Associates, Inc.: Innovative Drug Therapy Management then I'll not bother talking science, much less sense into your head.

Lastly, you said,

you got your information from a holistic herbal website!?!?! come on!! and you call me ignorant.

Another ridiculous statement. I pointed to this one site which does have facts on why obstructive and central sleep apnea occurs. I even stated their treatment worked for a good portion of the night for me. What I didn't state or clarify was their treatment would work for me the ENTIRE night IF I were to bother getting out of bed and takeing another pill. I'm just too lazy to do that. However my point in bringing this site up again? THEIR TREATMENT WORKS! This leaves you with either attempting to debunk a workable treatment (outside of CPAP) and their claims or calling me a liar and if you choose the latter, you and I sir (or are you a youngster?) are done.

 

[kid1dakota]

First off let's just say, your reaction is very childish at best. None the less, to be clear, HGH DOES raise IGF-1 levels. That's a fact. That's not my "own fact". How ridiculous. Thus once again, just for kicks,...

"Overproduction of growth hormone leads to increase in insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) by the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 causes such symptoms as ...sleep apnea."

So as for the study's findings referenced, you're beef is with "The Clinical Pharmacy Associates". Further you should note, the clinincal trails were numerous from which they obtained their findings are drew their conclusions from. So, are you actually challanging this/them? If so, it might be best you expand your research past Chiropractic practice. No kidding.

Get a load of the NUMEROUS studies they reviewed:
**broken link removed**

Now if you still take issue with any of the above, including The Clinical Pharmacy Associates @ Clinical Pharmacy Associates, Inc.: Innovative Drug Therapy Management then I'll not bother talking science, much less sense into your head.

Lastly, you said,


Another ridiculous statement. I pointed to this one site which does have facts on why obstructive and central sleep apnea occurs. I even stated their treatment worked for a good portion of the night for me. What I didn't state or clarify was their treatment would work for me the ENTIRE night IF I were to bother getting out of bed and takeing another pill. I'm just too lazy to do that. However my point in bringing this site up again? THEIR TREATMENT WORKS! This leaves you with either attempting to debunk a workable treatment (outside of CPAP) and their claims or calling me a liar and if you choose the latter, you and I sir (or are you a youngster?) are done.

You still gave me your opinion.I want CREDIBLE studies proving your theories!

I asked what your education level is? whom am I debating with? another healthcare professional or a kid on mommy and Daddies computer? or just a know it all that won't give it up?

I want you to show me where Exogenous HGH injected into the body causes Sleep Apnea?? So far you have shown something that states

"Overproduction of growth hormone leads to increase in insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) by the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 causes such symptoms as ...sleep apnea."
I can believe that as pituitary issues can stimulate overproduction and cause giantism and all sorts of problems which sleep apnea very well could be one.

You have turned that into injecting HGH causes raises in Igf-1 and causes sleep apnea? I could see the theory and potential ,BUT,NOWHERE HAS THIS BEEN PROVEN! Therefore there is no contra-indication that the prescribing/use of HGH exacerbates or causes sleep apnea!!

And lastly I'm sorry but holistic herbal web sites should be left out of any true debate of western medicine and or its treatment.Not credible my friend,lol.

For the record I'm 41 years old with a decent amount of education and success.I would absolutely listen to or read anything you bring to the table.But you have brought a correlation theory and junk science(holistic website) to the debate.

You should take some basic science courses and learn what is credible information in science and medicine so you can learn to intelligently debate if that is what you plan on doing on this site.ESPECIALLY BEFORE SPOUTING OFF THAT PEOPLE(that are probably way more educated than you) ARE IGNORANT!!

 

[123cctv]

You still gave me your opinion.I want CREDIBLE studies proving your theories!

You've either taken the Evelyn Woodhead Speed Reading Course (if you're 41 yrs old, you'll know the ad's I'm referencing) or you could not have digested, much less read through all the "CREDIBLE studies" The Clinical Pharmacy Associates reviewed. They are credible and are as legit as any studies go. It's amusing to consider the possibility they were reviewing Kindygarden classroom hypothizies? Please point us in the direction of other more "CREDIBLE studies" which DO debunk the "Clinical Pharmacy Associates" Drug Class Review. Where are they?

However to be blunt - I gave no "opinion" sir. I merely referenced the Clinical Pharmacy Associates summation. You have ignored THEIR conclusion. Albeit thus far, you've danced around the fact, which by the way is common knowledge, that raised GH levels raises IGF-1 levels. This is science to which I'll no longer take the time pointing to the many other repeated and yes, "CREDIBLE" studies declaring such.

Now I've narrowed you down to this -->> your rebut is that you do not believe that raised IGF-1 levels "causes...sleep apnea" as their Review proclaimed. Right? This leaves you with actually reading the studies, once again either debunking them, perhaps because you think they're uncredible (please show me which ones are and why) or you merely disagree for no factual reason whatsoever other than?? In other words, since you *feel* overproduction of IGF-1 does not "cause" sleep apnea, maybe it's time you explain why? I've explained why via their medical review it does,...now it's your turn.

I asked what your education level is? whom am I debating with? another healthcare professional or a kid on mommy and Daddies computer?

You're kidding again, right? You believe because you (and not I) have a doctorate of Chiropractic makes you correct? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. However I'm 46 yrs. old and I've mentioned in other posts what I do full time: Security cameras, CCTV cameras, Security camera, Surveillance camera
Yes it's unrelated to BB'ing, but again is not a requirement to spouting off "credible" studies you seem to be ignorant of. Now if you're asking me what my I.Q. is? You don't want to know.

You have turned that into injecting HGH causes raises in Igf-1 and causes sleep apnea? I could see the theory and potential ,BUT,NOWHERE HAS THIS BEEN PROVEN!

We keep saying the same things over and over again, so this is my last -- according to the Clinical Pharmacy Associates summation, it's not "theory", it's their conclusion. NOT MINE.

You should take some basic science courses and learn what is credible information in science and medicine so you can learn to intelligently debate if that is what you plan on doing on this site.

Now this did bring a slight chuckle. Anyone who knows me or my posts, like DatBtrue, I'll always reference science and I'll always have data to back. The user which rebuts if left contesting CREDIBLE STUDIES which I'm swamped/inundated with.

Good day.

 

[kid1dakota]

You've either taken the Evelyn Woodhead Speed Reading Course (if you're 41 yrs old, you'll know the ad's I'm referencing) or you could not have digested, much less read through all the "CREDIBLE studies" The Clinical Pharmacy Associates reviewed. They are credible and are as legit as any studies go. It's amusing to consider the possibility they were reviewing Kindygarden classroom hypothizies? Please point us in the direction of other more "CREDIBLE studies" which DO debunk the "Clinical Pharmacy Associates" Drug Class Review. Where are they?

However to be blunt - I gave no "opinion" sir. I merely referenced the Clinical Pharmacy Associates summation. You have ignored THEIR conclusion. Albeit thus far, you've danced around the fact, which by the way is common knowledge, that raised GH levels raises IGF-1 levels. This is science to which I'll no longer take the time pointing to the many other repeated and yes, "CREDIBLE" studies declaring such.

Now I've narrowed you down to this -->> your rebut is that you do not believe that raised IGF-1 levels "causes...sleep apnea" as their Review proclaimed. Right? This leaves you with actually reading the studies, once again either debunking them, perhaps because you think they're uncredible (please show me which ones are and why) or you merely disagree for no factual reason whatsoever other than?? In other words, since you *feel* overproduction of IGF-1 does not "cause" sleep apnea, maybe it's time you explain why? I've explained why via their medical review it does,...now it's your turn.



You're kidding again, right? You believe because you (and not I) have a doctorate of Chiropractic makes you correct? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. However I'm 46 yrs. old and I've mentioned in other posts what I do full time: Security cameras, CCTV cameras, Security camera, Surveillance camera
Yes it's unrelated to BB'ing, but again is not a requirement to spouting off "credible" studies you seem to be ignorant of. Now if you're asking me what my I.Q. is? You don't want to know.



We keep saying the same things over and over again, so this is my last -- according to the Clinical Pharmacy Associates summation, it's not "theory", it's their conclusion. NOT MINE.



Now this did bring a slight chuckle. Anyone who knows me or my posts, like DatBtrue, I'll always reference science and I'll always have data to back. The user which rebuts if left contesting CREDIBLE STUDIES which I'm swamped/inundated with.

Good day.

Again,A bunch of F'ing jibberish about speed reading,being genius cameraman blah blah blah blah .

You did give an opinion!!! as you took part of something and turned into something else.OVERPRODUCTION IS NOT EXOGENOUS INJECTION!!!!!!

The study quote you keep referring to time and time and time again says
"Overproduction of growth hormone leads to increase in insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) by the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 causes such symptoms as ...sleep apnea."


This is either from a tumor or some type of disease!!!!!! This isn't INJECTING EXOGENOUS!!!!!!!! WHAT DONT YOU GET ABOUT THAT!?!?!?!
How much is overproduction!?!?! For how many years?!?!? ETC ETC ETC!!!!

I went to pubmed and medline and nothing to back up your statement AND YOU STUDY DOESN"T EITHER IT SAYS OVERPRODUCTION Not INJECTION!!!
you are making an assumption they are one in the same.They are not!!!!!

You claim your so smart yet you seem really really really thick!!!

And we still havent gotten into your total misunderstanding of sleep apnea,lol.

Yet you self diagnose!?!?! and treat from internet herbal sites!!

And Einstein a credible study is:
1)peer reviewed published medical journal
2)University controlled studies (accreditted only)

OVERPRODUCTION IS NOT INJECTION and cannot be compared or categorized as the same thing.You are so out of your league on this topic.I am seriously emberrassed for you as you really don't get it.

There are people who produce too much of this or too little of that throughout systems of the body.If someone has medical issues from overproduction this does not mean someone else who needs replacement therapy will get these same issues even if large doses are used.This is what you are implying that someone with a pituitary tumor has issues from overproduction of HGH,that anyone injecting HGH will get these same issues.NOPE!!

This is just crazy.You came onto this thread telling members to self diagnose and treat themselves from herbal internet websites!! very wreckless and naive advice.
Then you argue not only what is sleep apnea but you make up bullshit telling members to stop taking HGH. no study not even your little quote correllates to injecting HGH.

I'm done as this is like arguing with a child.

 

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You did give an opinion!!! as you took part of something and turned into something else.OVERPRODUCTION IS NOT EXOGENOUS INJECTION!!!!!!.

I will not say this again - I offered no "opinion". I QUOTED the Clinical Pharmacy Associates summation. Ignore this FACT if you desire. Yet regardless, readers are able to read what's been said here and determine on their own. I offered you their findings, you OTH offered no factual findings or studies which properly rebut theirs.

This is either from a tumor or some type of disease!!!!!! This isn't INJECTING EXOGENOUS!!!!!!!! WHAT DONT YOU GET ABOUT THAT!?!?!?

<sigh> It is via "injection of exogenous" wherewith overproduction of GH is attainable. THAT'S WHAT THESE STUDIES WE'RE PERFORMING. The various rHGH available and the side effects of. READ!!! Do I need to copy and paste them here for you to actually place your eye's on them? GH secretes IGF-1 and according to them, one such symptom of raised levels of IGF-1 is "sleep apnea". THATS THEIR FINDING, not mine!

How much is overproduction!?!?! For how many years?!?!? ETC ETC ETC!!!!

Now I know you didn't read the studies. Each study gave dosage amount as well as time frames addressed on EACH study the Review referenced.

So to sum up kid, errr kid1dakota -- INJECTION of rHGH, which is exactly what these studies evaluated, READ THEM (as they weren't evaluating the body's normal pituitary gland's GH secretion) when given in higher dosages led to raised IGF-1 levels, which in turn created numerous symptoms, one of which you're well aware of by now.

By the way, if you were honestly open to learning -- I'd be going so far as to contact them myself to obtain an exhaustive explanation for you. However you're not worth it. Of course, you however are welcome to do that on your own? I know we'd love to hear their reply. So, care to dive into this so we can verify your opinion? Yeah, your's is an opinion, mine is a quotation of their summation. Perhaps they will enlighten us differently than their copy and pasted information I provided.

Unless you cite new worthwhile information which properly rebuts the above, don't expect a reply (from me).