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Arimidex and fatloss

Johan

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Jun 5, 2002
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Does realy arimidex and the other anti aromatasa(sp?) aid in fatloss to any great deal? Would nolvadex do the same?

How much difference do the estrogen levels make in dropping bodyfat? I am concerned about how arimidex fucks upp cholesterol levels. Would proviron be a healtier choise?
 
I have found that Proviron hardens me up - gives a "finishing touch" once bodyfat is already sufficiently low.

Nolvadex, Arimidex, etc are great for shedding excess water weight due to the aromitization of Test to Estrogen. I have never found them to be helpful in terms of actual fat loss. That comes down to diet and cardio.
 
Coopie said:
I have found that Proviron hardens me up - gives a "finishing touch" once bodyfat is already sufficiently low.

Nolvadex, Arimidex, etc are great for shedding excess water weight due to the aromitization of Test to Estrogen.

Why exactly is there excess water-weight due to aromatization of test to estrogen?
 
Coopie said:
I have found that Proviron hardens me up - gives a "finishing touch" once bodyfat is already sufficiently low.

Nolvadex, Arimidex, etc are great for shedding excess water weight due to the aromitization of Test to Estrogen. I have never found them to be helpful in terms of actual fat loss. That comes down to diet and cardio.

I was thinking since many fat deposits are estrogen related that removing estrogen would make the fatloss easier? :confused:

Me personaly I find proviron just as good as arimidex to get rid of bloat. Its my favorit anti aromatasa. Arimidex also effects my sexdrive negativly. To bad proviron is hard to find and expensive :mad:
 
In my opinion, and assuming there is not a serious imbalance between your TEST to ESTROGEN levels, attacking estrogen to target fat loss is the wrong approach. A more direct approach is DIET and CARDIO - then when you're sufficiently cut, use an anti-estrogen like ARIMIDEX (more potent than NOVLADEX) to get you to that final "stage-ready" look.

Otherwise, you're not attacking the root of the fat problem, which is simply excess FAT! You'll probably be better off using CLEN and T3 to burn off the fat as opposed to an anti-estrogen - unless you're already ripped and trying to get super-ripped!

Also - estrogen causes bloat. Why? I never learned why, I just know it to be true. So, if you're using lots of gear then an anti-estrogen is useful to keep the bloat at bay, but without proper diet it's like pissin' in the wind.
 
Yes, its easier to shed fat in a low estrogen environment as it is easier to gain fat in a high estrogen environment.
 
any thoughts on using Nolvadex to eliminate excessive water bloat? (the type that hurts).
 
I wouldnt rely on armidex to help you lose weight, the havoc it wreaks alone on your cholesterol, I would use it only when absolutely needed... just put down the cheeseburger! ;)
 
Coopie said:
In my opinion, and assuming there is not a serious imbalance between your TEST to ESTROGEN levels, attacking estrogen to target fat loss is the wrong approach. A more direct approach is DIET and CARDIO - then when you're sufficiently cut, use an anti-estrogen like ARIMIDEX (more potent than NOVLADEX) to get you to that final "stage-ready" look.

Otherwise, you're not attacking the root of the fat problem, which is simply excess FAT! You'll probably be better off using CLEN and T3 to burn off the fat as opposed to an anti-estrogen - unless you're already ripped and trying to get super-ripped!

Also - estrogen causes bloat. Why? I never learned why, I just know it to be true. So, if you're using lots of gear then an anti-estrogen is useful to keep the bloat at bay, but without proper diet it's like pissin' in the wind.

No no I dont rely on anti e's to drop fat. I am on a good diet, on clen and t-3 and a nice cutting cycle. Already dropped 28ibs. Im Just curious if arimidex would aid the fat loss in anyway. If it doesnt then I will ditch it for sure and save it for the last few weeks.

My worst fat areas are love handles and titty fat. Since I know those 2 are estrogen related fat deposits would arimidex make it easier for the body to burn fat from those 2 places?
 
Johan - Without seeing you, and just by taking what you posted at face value - I'd have to say "No, the weight you're trying to lose is not going to fall off any faster with an anti-e."

Take the diet and cardio to the end and then use the anti-e's for the last bit of weight.
 
Coopie said:
Johan - Without seeing you, and just by taking what you posted at face value - I'd have to say "No, the weight you're trying to lose is not going to fall off any faster with an anti-e."

Take the diet and cardio to the end and then use the anti-e's for the last bit of weight.

Ok thanks. Il ditch it and save the cash then :)
 
Rogue said:
Yes, its easier to shed fat in a low estrogen environment as it is easier to gain fat in a high estrogen environment.

If anyone thinks this is NOT true, please explain the differences, naturally, in bodyfat levels from males to females.

ADD: And as usual, no one is mentioning aromasin for keeping blood lipid profiles in check.

Skip
 
Skip said:
If anyone thinks this is NOT true, please explain the differences, naturally, in bodyfat levels from males to females.

ADD: And as usual, no one is mentioning aromasin for keeping blood lipid profiles in check.

Skip

I wonder how many people truely know about Aromasin. I have mentioned it to a couple buddies of mine and most are clueless. Im not too sure why Arimidex is more popular seeing as they are about the same price from a HRT clinic if they carry both. 25mgs Armoasin EOD does wonders....zero bloat, no rise in bad cholesterol, and no negative impact on IGF-1. Most HRT clinics are starting to carry it and if they don't just mention it and they soon will.
 
I cant get ahold of aromasin unfortunaly, not that I know of.

The sex drive issues with arimidex. Is it becuase of low estrogen levels or are other factors playing in? Does aromasin lower sexdrive?
 
Johan said:
I cant get ahold of aromasin unfortunaly, not that I know of.

The sex drive issues with arimidex. Is it becuase of low estrogen levels or are other factors playing in? Does aromasin lower sexdrive?

Not that I am aware of as none of my clients complain of this - however, they only use it precontest and that isn't exactly peak sex season. lol

I know a few *cough* who are using it offseason for long periods of time and there is certainly no impact on sex drive, at all.

Skip
 
ROGUE AND SKIP....THANKS FOR YOUR REPLYS!

MUCHOS GRACIAS! :)
 
Skip said:
If anyone thinks this is NOT true, please explain the differences, naturally, in bodyfat levels from males to females.
By Karl Hoffman (Nandi on the boards):

A Few Common Bodybuilding Myths

Estrogen makes a person fat, doesn’t it? Well, women do have a higher body fat content in general than do men, especially in the gluteofemoral (hips and buttocks) region. Is estrogen really the cause of this gender dimorphism in adiposity? Probably not. In fact, there are a wealth of data that implicate estrogen as both an anorectic and antiadipogenic hormone. It is much more likely that progesterone is the culprit in supporting higher levels of gluteofemoral fat in women (1). The model described in (1) has progesterone as the lipogenic hormone. Before menopause, both estrodiol and progesterone are secreted by the ovaries. After menopause, estrone becomes the primary circulating estrogen produced from aromatization of adrenal androgens (primarily the aromatization of androstenedione to estrone by adipose tissue), while progesterone levels drop dramatically since adrenal production of progesterone is minimal.

In premenopausal women, progesterone increases lipoprotein lipase activity, which is greater in the gluteofemoral region, while estrogen suppresses it. Lipoprotein lipase is the body’s primary fat storage enzyme; it is responsible for allowing fats to leave the circulation and enter adipocytes. The progesterone wins out however and before menopause, women tend to have more gluteofemoral fat and less abdominal fat.

Why do women have more gluteofemoral fat while men have more central (abdominal) fat? One popular theory is that women hold fat in the gluteofemoral region where it is far removed from the liver and has fewer fat mobilizing enzymes/more fat retaining enzymes than in men. Men hold fat in the visceral and abdominal subcutaneous region where it is closer to the liver and richer in fat mobilizing enzymes. Proximity to the liver is a factor because the portal circulation connects abdominal fat deposits directly to the liver. Free fatty acids released from abdominal deposits can act directly on the liver to promote gluconeogenesis, providing the body with a ready supply of glucose for “fight or flight” situations.

From an adaptational viewpoint, women's fat is designed to be stored until needed for lactation and child rearing. Men's fat on the other hand is designed to be readily mobilized for fight or flight situations during defense and hunting. This theory may be a bit simplistic as well as sexist; but it does make sense to some degree.

Most likely the notion of estrogenic fat originated from the belief that estrogen upregulates alpha 2 receptors in fat cells, retarding lipolysis. This may be just one facet of estrogen’s actions. If one looks at the net result of estrogen’s effects, to quote a leading expert in the field


“Testosterone and GH inhibit LPL and stimulate lipolysis markedly. Oestrogens seem to exert net effects similar to those of testosterone.” (2)

For example, animal studies have shown that testosterone promotes alpha 2 adrenoreceptor mediated antilipolytic activity, just as it promotes beta adrenoreceptor mediated lipolysis.

Interestingly, recent research has even attributed at least part of testosterone's fat burning properties to its local aromatization to estradiol (3). For instance when testosterone is administered along with an aromatase inhibitor, LPL activity increases, showing that the testosterone itself is devoid of any ability to lower LPL. (4)

There are a number of animal studies where estradiol administration led to significant weight and fat loss. Citing just one, for example:


"The administration of 17 beta-estradiol (500 micrograms/kg, 2 or 4 weeks) to male rats significantly reduced the body weight...Basal lipolysis and adrenaline-induced lipolysis [due to increase in HSL action] were also significantly enhanced in the epididymal adipose tissue from the male rat treated either with 7 mg/kg estradiol 12 h ahead or with 500 micrograms/kg estradiol for 2 weeks. These results indicate that estradiol exerts strong effects on metabolism of the adipose and these effects seems to be mediated through cyclic-AMP." (5)

This research indicates that in addition to the abovementioned inhibition of LPL, estrogen also stimulates the lipolytic enzyme hormone sensitive lipase.

Some of the most compelling evidence for the antiadipogenic effect of estrogen in both males and females comes from studies of estrogen receptor knockout mice and humans with aromatase deficiency. Both the afflicted humans and the knockout mice exhibit obesity. A detailed look at this topic can be found here:

I also mentioned that estrogen is a potent hunger-suppressing hormone. Research is a bit sketchier here, but the effect is thought to be due to an estrogen-induced inhibition in melanin-concentrating hormone (MCH) signaling (6). MCH is a neuropeptide found in the hypothalamus that is also thought to be involved in leptin’s regulation of appetite. Leptin, an anorectic hormone secreted from the adipose tissue, acts on the specific receptor present on its target neurons in the brain, and suppresses the expression of both MCH and its receptor. So we see that the actions of both estrogen and leptin are at least partly mediated through interactions with MCH.
 
Good read, Killerstack. Admittedly, I am intrigued but not convinced. There are too many "but the effect is thought to be due to" comments and "popular theory" comments, as well.

Skip
 
ADD: I also know of 2 women using aromasin and they are both having extraordinary results in lower bodyfat quickly and they both started about 70 pounds overweight. I didn't want to bring this up because these results are, of course, preliminary but the progress is so incredibly fast and easy that it almost has to be related to the anti estrogen.

Skip
 

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