bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides (similar to 2-3iu GH)

[achilles415]

Thanks Tregar I don’t get lethargy either but I have only used MA mk in caps ... 2 ius morning 12.5 mk at night ...

 

[brandon706]

I wonder about combining mk677, with ipa/mod grf combo, combined with hgh. Is this too much ?

 

[rmtt]

I wonder about combining mk677, with ipa/mod grf combo, combined with hgh. Is this too much ?

Just depends on your body. I know a few that do this so they can use less GH.

But pricewise....I think it all pans out about the same.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

 

[tregar]

Hi Achilles415, glad to hear you don't get lethargy either. I have bumped up my dose to 25mg the past few days, still no lethargy, actually noticed increased energy at work, great sleep at night, and the good sense of well-being continues day after day, it does actually feel like I am younger if that makes any sense, I love the way it makes me feel. I take 25mg every morning with my coffee, along with huperzine A and egcg capsule. I have decided to be patient, and give it one more week (2 weeks total before I go and get bloodwork, as I want to get a good stable igf-1 reading).

I dont know brandon706 if adding in the peptides on top the mk677 will actually send it too much higher, as there seems to be a limit the body will allow it to reach, as it senses the increased igf-1, and keeps it within a boundary, that is the boundary of high end igf-1 produced by a young adult. I have seen a study by stan g who used mk677 with cjc1295 at 750mcg a week, and his levels still only rose no more than 80 points.

Jimmyinkedup (25mg mk677 with 750mcg cjc1295 a week):

IGF Baseline Test: 193.4 , this draw: 273.2 (flag:High)

MK677 should bring you to the high level of a young adult if you are already at the high end for an older adult.

Older folks (59-225ug/L)
young adult (116-358 ug/L)

Ref levels from the MK677 study on healthy older adults.

Effects of an Oral Ghrelin Mimetic on Body Composition and Clinical Outcomes in Healthy Older Adults: A Randomized, Controlled Trial.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757071/
hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757071/

Here is another fascinating new study on the use of arginine/ornithine from 2010 that shows greatly increased GH and igf-1 levels when taking both amino acids (you can find them combined together from many places like NOW or puritan's pride) right before a workout and at other times of the day:

https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/...d_Ornithine_Supplementation_Increases.28.aspx
hxxps://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2010/04000/Arginine_and_Ornithine_Supplementation_Increases.28.aspx

Figure 2 from the study: there was a 200 point increase in igf-1 from 400 to 600 ng/ml during exercise with those who took the 2 amino acids pre-workout.

Figure 1 from the study: there was a 1.5 fold increase in growth hormone during exercise with those who took the 2 amino acids pre-workout

p.s when I was younger I used to take GH fuel by twinlab (no longer made) before every workout, as it was a high dose combo of arginine/ornithine (just like the study above) and made tremendous progress with it, I used it for many years.

** I would suggest adding in 3 grams L-arginine + 2.2 grams L-ornithine pre-workout on top the daily mk677 to see further increased levels of growth hormone and igf-1. An MK677 study I read in the past mentioned that those who exercise can increase there levels even more while on it (see mindandmuscle article to the ref).

Anyhow, I will be back in about 1 and 1/2 week from now (after being on 2 weeks) to post my bloodwork from the 25mg mk677.

 

[tregar]

Figure 1: The plasma insulin-like growth factor 1 concentrations before and after 3 weeks of resistance training with and without arginine and ornithine supplementation (200 point increase in igf-1 during and after exercise (recovery) at 3 weeks with those who used supplementation).

Figure 2: The plasma growth hormone concentrations before and after 3 weeks of resistance training with and without arginine and ornithine supplementation (1.5 fold increase in GH during exercise) at 3 weeks with those who supplemented.

 

[tregar]

Attached: Arginine and Ornithine Supplementation Increases Growth Hormone and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 Serum Levels After Heavy-Resistance Exercise in Strength-Trained Athletes. (Could not attach as file is 333kb, and limit is 100kb for a pdf file). But here is link: https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/...d_Ornithine_Supplementation_Increases.28.aspx

Zajac, Adam1; Poprzęcki, Stanisław2; Żebrowska, Aleksandra3; Chalimoniuk, Małgorzata4; Langfort, Jozef3,5

Having igf-1 bloodwork pulled this Wed after being on 25mg MK677 for two weeks, will post results 3 business days later. Baseline was 227ng/ml for age of 48, curious to see how much the rise will be.

MK677 should bring you to the high level of a young adult if you are already at the high end for an older adult.

Older folks (59-225ug/L)
young adult (116-358 ug/L)

Ref levels from the MK677 study on healthy older adults.

 

[tregar]

Bloodwork has been taken after being on 25mg of MK677 for 2 weeks, will post results in several business days when it comes back.

Just as Huperzine A + EGCG are used to lower somatostatin, Arginine was found to stimulate GH secretion by "suppressing endogenous somatostatin secretion" by Julia Alba Roth o. from the Journal of Endocrinology.

It turns out that oral arginine and ornithine are particularly effective at blocking somatostatin and therfore releasing GH when you add a couple of additional factors to it, choline (CDP choline) and vitamin B5 (pantothenate). That's because GH release involves the cholinergic nervous system.

Therefore, a combination of MK677 25mg a day with 3g arginine + 2.2g ornithine taken before workouts and sleep (and making sure 1.5 to 2 hours is allowed away from other food before taking, just like the study posted above) seems like a no brainer to me, and why I've ordered a bottle of 250 capsules of arginine/ornithine combo (super cheap) to start taking in the future, (along with CDP choline + vit b5) then have more bloodwork done after being on the amino acid combo + MK677 for about a month, to see if the levels raise even higher than just MK677/huperzine A/EGCG alone. I figure, the more somatostatin blockers in the system at optimum times, the better.

 

[tregar]

I have a feeling this stuff at 25mg for 2 weeks raised my igf-1 to a pretty decent level from a baseline of 227, as at the end of my 2nd week, I noticed moderate increases in strength (up 5lbs) on all lifts upperbody, and as much as an extra 10lbs added to squat and 15lbs to leg press, hamstring curl up 10lbs as well, very full feeling in the muscles, good nitrogen retention when combined with the 2grams per lb of body weight in protein, 50grams of that from met-rx daily after workout or with dinner on non-workout days. I plan on adding in 3grams of HMB next week daily to further increase LBM and strength.

I will have the results of the mk677 bloodwork at the end of the day on Friday.

 

[tregar]

So I got the results back from the bloodwork after being on 25mg of mk677 only for 2 weeks, and the result was 372 ng/ml !

That's an increase of 145 points from baseline !!!:headbang:

227 baseline igf-1----->380 igf-1 after being on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade GH for 2 days

washout period of 4 weeks (took nothing for 1 month)

227 baseline igf-1----->372 igf-1 after being on mk677 only for 2 weeks.

So, in conclusion, being on mk677 for 2 weeks was similar to being on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade GH, for me anyhow, as the bloodtest proves it.

Will post actual lab report here tomorrow when off work.

This is an incredible raise in igf-1 for my age of 48 as reference is 67-205 for my age group, and the mk677 for 2 weeks brought me beyond the high range for a young adult in their early 20's!

I couldn't be happier, this helps explain the increases in strength at the gym, as well as the fast recovery from workouts.

MK677 should bring you to the high level of a young adult if you are already at the high end for an older adult.
Older folks (59-225ug/L)
young adult (116-358 ug/L)

Ref levels from the MK677 study on healthy older adults.
So I could not be happier that MK677 brought me beyond the very high level range for a young 20 year old. I could only imagine what it could do for a 20 year old.

Mk677 at 25mg a day cost me only 15 a month for the pure powder vs 170 a month for 100 iu of pharm grade Chinese GH at 4iu for 20 days, so the cost savings is quite substantial, and shows that a person could even alternate the two from month to month should they desire to save money, or just stay on mk677 to remain at a 4iu GH level.

 

[tregar]

p.s. keep in mind I took 25mg of mk677 every morning along with huperzine A and EGCG just once a day of both. You could also use CDPcholine and vitamin B5 in place of the huperzine A, this all helps to lower somatostatin.

 

[tregar]

Attached: baseline IGF-1 (age 48)

Attached: 25mg MK677 bloods after 2 weeks, baseline = 227, mk677 = 372, increase of 145 points.
p.s. keep in mind I took 25mg of mk677 every morning in a capsule with my coffee (I use a 1mg scale) along with huperzine A and EGCG just once a day of both. You could also use CDPcholine and vitamin B5 in place of the huperzine A, this all helps to lower somatostatin.That's because GH release involves the cholinergic nervous system.

For what it's worth, I just started a new experiment taking 3g of L-arginine + 1.5g L-ornithine before workouts and 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach along with the 25mg mk677 + huperzine A + egcg, and for the first time I have noticed tingling in the fingers (just like high dose gh) for about 4 hours total after taking all together as arginine/ornithine are both potent somatostatin inhibitors (see 2010 study I posted from Zajac, Adam) I believe the combo of all these somatostatin inhibitors along with the mk677 may be sending my igf-1 even higher then the latest lab, so in the future (in a month) I will have another blood taken to see if the addition of arginine/ornithine is helping to send the igf-1 levels even higher.

 

[tregar]

So in conclusion:

4iu of GH for just 2 days --------> increased igf-1 levels 68% from baseline.

25mg of MK677 @ 2 weeks-----> increased igf-1 levels 64% from baseline.

note: MK677 was taken in the morning along with 100mcg huperzine A + 200mg caffeine free EGCG to help lower somatostatin.

 

[sillichilli]

Thanks for sharing all this, this is awesome. Do you have any future plans to test anything else like this?

 

[tregar]

Thanks sillichilli, much appreciated. Yes, in fact I am currently next week getting a baseline igf-1 done on my spouse, and she want's to start taking mk677 at 10mg a week, when we will get another bloodtest to see how far it took her levels up, I will report back when have all the bloodwork.

To sum up the results of the research I did so far:
------------
self:
227 igf1---->380 igf1 (4iu chinese generic pharm grade) = 153 point jump

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase

MK677:
---------
self:
227 igf1---->372 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 145 points******
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****

*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"
******self: note took in morning with 100mcg huperzine A + 200mg caffeine free EGCG to help lower somatostatin (instead of huperzine A you could also use CDPcholine + vitamin B5).

 

[tregar]

1st lab is baseline igf-1 [227, high] (age 48, ref is 67 to 205 ng/mL)

2nd lab is igf-1 [380, high] after 4iu of Chinese pharm grade for 2 days (95 point increase per each 1iu)

3rd lab is igf-1 [372, high] after 25mg mk677 for weeks

 

[tregar]

In conclusion:

Comments on the 2 weeks: remember that everyone reacts differently, I have been using it at 25mg every morning for 2 weeks, get no lethargy, great sense of well being, increased energy, even my spouse said my mood improved after coming home from work the past 2 weeks, as I was in a good mood compared to my normal stressed self. I actually feel younger on the stuff at age 48. I spend only 15 a month for 25mg a day, as I get the pure powder and weigh it myself into caps with a cheap quality 1mg scale. Keep in mind I did work my way up to 25mg, by starting at 15mg for day 1-3, then 20mg for 2 days, then went up to 25mg.

Perhaps the increase in igf-1 and increased amount of low level (12+ a day) GH pulses helps to explain why I feel younger on the stuff. Strength increased in the gym by 5 lbs+ on all upper body in 2 weeks for same reps, while squats and leg press went up 20 lbs (and +10lbs on hamstring curl) for same reps while on the mk677...I'm staying on this stuff forever (with breaks here and there) absolutely love it.

 

[tregar]

Concluding notes:

bottom graph: It turns out the level of 372 igf-1 the MK677 brought me too is right around the level of most 16 year old boys and girls (between 300 to 400 igf-1).

StanG [from the thread "the no-bs scoop on mk677"]

Now lets talk a bit abut side effects. I see a ton of people talking about bloat with Mk677. There is a lot of confusion as to why this occurs and how to prevent it. Many people drop the dosage however by doing so you directly impact the potency and effectiveness of Mk. The optimal dose for Mkk677, without a doubt, is 25mg/day. The bloat is caused by an effect in the kidneys caused by the increase in GH on vasopressin. This can easily be offset by the addition of a simple low dose daily aspirin protocol. Thats right, one 82mg aspirin/day with impact ADH (anti dieuretic hormone or vasporessin) to the point where it eliminated the bloat associated with Mk677.

Dropping the dose to 10 to 15mg can also reduce bloat but will still be very effective, studies with just 10mg still showed large increase in igf-1. Another way to control is to be on a targeted year round low carb, high fat/protein keto-diet (which I follow) with increased carbs around workout times/days. Don't think of the minor increased water weight as bad, it has allowed for some rather fast moderate increases in strength in the gym + the muscles feel pumped and very full, and my joints feel incredible as before the mk677 I had had some joint issues which cleared right up about 2 weeks into the mk677.

I was extra hungry for the 1st week on it, but after that the increased hunger died down/went away. In 2 year studies on mk677, it was still effective (no desensitization), and the level of igf-1 at the 1 year point was actually measured and found to have increased beyond what it was at the 3 week level.

The 1st day I took it, I felt a bit funny (even euphoric) as it raises your GH level super sky high, but then the body will sense the increased igf-1 the next day or two and instill a feedback mechanism to keep it within the level of a teenager after that.

 

[Thebigone]

Very cool results and great information but I think we shouldn’t compare MK or any other peptide to HGH. I mean sure it’s fine to compare IGF levels and similar results but the results you get from HGH are not going to be the same as from peptides or anything else that increases IGF levels no matter what equation you do. They are different. For example Clomid and hcg increase test levels but you cannot compare gains from them to actually injecable test or cream. They both increase certain numbers on paper but results differ greatly. I think Mk677 is awesome but you could take a gallon of it a day and you’re not going to get the fat loss and overall body recomposition as real Pharma HGH.

 

[tregar]

Yes, I agree thebigone, I'm not getting the fat loss benefits from it like HGH, but I am seeing all the other benefits I saw with 4iu of GH in the past, an increase of nearly 150 igf-1 points is no joke from mk677, and it is translating into increased strength in the gym weekly. I may not get the same fat burning effects, but mk677 has the added benefit of greatly increased nitrogen retention, so it is a tradeoff, great for mass in my opinion. I am only spending 15 a month, whereas I had spent 170 a month on GH, still have plenty of GH in the fridge, but I am one of the rare people that get increased Blood pressure when I use 4iu of gh or more, so I like the fact the MK677 does not raise my blood pressure at all, plus I feel young on it everyday with increased energy daily, super recuperation from workouts and a great pump in gym, really enjoying the strength increases.

Update, today after a 3 day rest, and at the end of week 3 on 25mg mk667, did back and biceps today, barbell pull to back increased by 10lbs for same rest, db pull to back increased by 5lbs for same reps, barbell curl increased by 5lbs for same reps, and db curl up by 5 extra reps for same lb.

Only other supplements: still on weekly TRT test cyp 200mg a week (year round), 100mcg of huperzine A + 400mg of EGCG taken with coffee along with 25mg mk677 in morning. Also get 1g of protein daily per lb of bodyweight (50g of that from met-rx). Will be adding in 3g of HMB starting next week.

 

[tregar]

I started at 15mg for the 1st 3 days, then went up to 20mg for 2 days, then 25mg everyday after that. I am running baseline igf-1 on my spouse as she wants to start and remain on mk677 at a dosage of 10mg daily, I will report back the bloodwork findings on her in the future. I will also be conducting additional bloodwork on myself several months from now, to see where the levels are after being on 25mg mk677 + choline enhancers (as GH works through the choline system) for many months. Attached study of mk677 on older adults shows levels keep increasing and stay at a high level even at the 1 year mark. Study mentioned that all participants took it in the morning and some experienced increased hunger for several months before that died down. 25mg MK677 for 2 weeks increased my igf-1 by 145 points from a baseline of 227 to 372 after 2 weeks (around the equivalent of 4iu of GH).