bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides (similar to 2-3iu GH)

[sub7percent]

I started at 15mg for the 1st 3 days, then went up to 20mg for 2 days, then 25mg everyday after that. I am running baseline igf-1 on my spouse as she wants to start and remain on mk677 at a dosage of 10mg daily, I will report back the bloodwork findings on her in the future. I will also be conducting additional bloodwork on myself several months from now, to see where the levels are after being on 25mg mk677 + choline enhancers (as GH works through the choline system) for many months. Attached study of mk677 on older adults shows levels keep increasing and stay at a high level even at the 1 year mark. Study mentioned that all participants took it in the morning and some experienced increased hunger for several months before that died down. 25mg MK677 for 2 weeks increased my igf-1 by 145 points from a baseline of 227 to 372 after 2 weeks (around the equivalent of 4iu of GH). View attachment 97463

Does it make sense to compare 2 days of hgh to 2 weeks of mk677?


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[tregar]

It does not, and when I first began blood testing, I did not know that you are supposed to wait 2 weeks before taking igf-1, I was corrected by several vets. But they were still impressed that it rose to that level after only 2 days, the other vets who had the exact same GH tested at 5iu for 2 weeks came back with levels around 350, so I'm not too far off even at 2 days at 380 at 4iu.

 

[tregar]

My 20 rep squat is up 40lbs after 1 month of 25mg mk667 daily, I love the strength gains I have been seeing with it, this is with 1g per lb of bodyweight daily in protein + 200mg test cyp TRT weekly year round.

 

[johnjuanb1]

My 20 rep squat is up 40lbs after 1 month of 25mg mk667 daily, I love the strength gains I have been seeing with it, this is with 1g per lb of bodyweight daily in protein + 200mg test cyp TRT weekly year round.

MK-677 gives me better strength gains than when i add tren. It really helps my joints and old injuries making every lift quickly go up in weight.

 

[jstrong20]

MK-677 gives me better strength gains than when i add tren. It really helps my joints and old injuries making every lift quickly go up in weight.

Mk also gives me a nice jump in strength. I've never take gh but also never remember reading about that happenings with it.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Mk also gives me a nice jump in strength. I've never take gh but also never remember reading about that happenings with it.

I didn’t get any strength from serostim but i do from Meditrope and riptropin due to the water weight gain.

 

[tregar]

Just a quick final closing note: MK677 similar to GH is going to lower your insulin sensitivity a bit, I would suggest taking 1 capsule of Arazo's blood sugar support (read 600 reviews at amazon) or anything similar 1/2 hour before every meal & protein shake to improve insulin sensitivity + shuttle excess glucose towards muscle and liver and not fat storage. These glucose disposal agents have been found by many reviewers to work even better than metformin without the side effects, and blood sugar was lowered from 130 and 120 down to 80 and similar readings for those with issues, helps with weight loss, etc. 1g Cinnamon supplement (not the extract) was also shown in several studies to lower blood sugar levels by 25%, just read the study at ergo-log.

 

[OutToLunch]

Apple cider vinegar is excellent for lower bg levels and increasing insulin sensitivity.

 

[wiseone]

Thanks for replies rmtt, achilles415, sillichilli and cutler. Believe it or not, but I simply use the pure powder from auction sites, now I go directly to a site that used to be on auction, pm me if you need the place (no affiliation whatsoever), costs about 15 for a month supply at 20mg a day, compared to 170 for 100iu of Chinese pharm grade. High quality 1mg scales can be found on Amazon. I am impatient so I will be pulling the bloodwork this Friday after being on 20mg of mk677 for a week. I will post results 3 business days later. So far, I am a big fan of the stuff. Everyone reacts differently, Mike Arnold at one time posted he gets no lethargy from it, same here (lucky I guess in that sense). The taste is absolutely terrible, so I put it into empty green tea capsules. Thanks for following. From the results we are seeing, many are testing around the equivalent of 3 iu hgh, and some lucky people (those with beginning high igf-1 levels) are testing around the equivalent of 4iu of GH.

Hello Tregar,
I tried to send you a PM but I got a messagesaying you didn't have any more room in your mailbox t

 

[hemipower]

Interesting comparisons of IGF levels ... as stated I'd bet actual GH does a better job of fat loss but I've seen similar results IGF wise on LOW gh dose in the am (1.5 to 2iu) and 12.5mg MK in the eve... got into the mid 300s same as with 3-4iu gh. Recovery MUCH improved and nagging injuries seemed to be much less bothersome...potentially due to some water weight as well as the healing of IGF.

 

[tregar]

Hemipower said:

Interesting comparisons of IGF levels ... as stated I'd bet actual GH does a better job of fat loss but I've seen similar results IGF wise on LOW gh dose in the am (1.5 to 2iu) and 12.5mg MK in the eve... got into the mid 300s same as with 3-4iu gh. Recovery MUCH improved and nagging injuries seemed to be much less bothersome...potentially due to some water weight as well as the healing of IGF.

Thanks for the knowledge Hemipower! Those are good test results on around 2iu hgh in am + 12.5mk at night

I have been on mk677 now for 5 months (and I will post my 5 month test results at the end of July here soon) but here is Word to the wise: From the middle of June till just about a week ago (mid July) I was using 3g of some mk677 I had bought from auction that was impure and did not realize it until later. I should have known as the taste of it was not as strong as normal, it did not leave a lingering benzene-ring foul taste in mouth for almost an hour, and it did not form granules or hard rock clumps when vacuum packed, someone had heavily diluted it. It was only about 25% pure (they cut it with something powdery). During that time I did not progress strength wise as I had on the pure stuff, I did not get that incredible refreshing sleep nor the crazy dreams...nor did I notice the increase in neurotransmitters during the day which gave me energy and helped me feel great all day and into the night when I came home. I was also coming home in not the greatest mood as i had been before, and I was falling asleep too quickly on the couch when I used to be able to stay up later into the night after coming home from my super long shifts.

Something was definately wrong, so I switched to the stuff that I knew was pure that I had bought previously and stored away, and low and behold I noticed the difference the very same day, great sleep and dreams, noticed the increased neurotransitters in the brain, good energy all day, pumps came back in the gym, strength increases returned, super recovery, the difference was like night and day.

So just be careful, just because somebody at auction posts a certificate of analysis they could have copied and pasted it from anywhere, what a waste of a hundred dollars for 3grams of crap. Thankfully I kept 3grams of superior mk677 that I knew was good from the effects it gave me for months, the way it formed granules and rocks when vacuum packed, and the super foul taste that would linger for a very long time when swished around the mouth. I can't stand scammers, so I thought I would bring that up and warn others. I have been taking the good mk677 now for a whole week, and I feel so much better, the energy all day, and super refreshing sleep/dreams, strength increases, super mood, I am so glad I am back on the good pure stuff. On the good pure stuff, I feel young and it shows in everything I do, 25mg of the pure stuff is definately the equivalent of 4iu of pharm grade GH for me.

I even did an experiment and took the heavily diluted impure stuff on one day, then switched back to the pure stuff the next day, and my mood/pumps/refreshing sleep/neutrotransmitters improved heavily on the pure stuff day, but went to crap on the alternate days I took the crappy diluted stuff. So buyer beware is all I have to say. I am glad to say I am once again making great progress in the gym by taking only the pure stuff, and I'm so glad to have the great mood an energy back all day again, not to mention waking up super refreshed. So always beware scammers.

 

[tregar]

Two very good articles about HMB:

1) HMB: Overrated, Overpriced, Or Overlooked? (Part 1, 2 and 3) by Derek Charlebois

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast7.htm

2) beta-Hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-Hydroxy_beta-methylbutyric_acid

3) MK677: The Beauty of Modern Science

**broken link removed**

I buy jewelry bag lots from Hobby lobby and load each one with 2g HMB/5g bcaa/1g creatine and take one followed by a cone of water from the fountain around 4 times a day. In the past 2months of adding this to my arsenal with daily mk677, I have noted very good strength and muscle gains, breaking previous records.

Does anyone else get good nootropic effects from mk677? I noticed all day good mood, enthusiasm to go workout, and in increase in feel-good and energy enhancement neutrotransmitters. I noticed this was semi-covered in the above article (3) concerning the brain regions involved with metabolic actions:

MK-677:

Acts as a ghrelin agonist
Stimulates brain regions involved with metabolic action
Dopamine
Opioid
Hypothalamus
Pituitary
Increases growth hormone levels

Will be back in August to post 6 month follow-up mk677 bloodwork. I'm going to wait one more month before I do bloodwork, as I had a month in there where I was taking heavily diluted stuff, so now that I am back on track with the purestuff, i will allow more time before pulling the bloods. Spouse is also doing baseline igf-1 bloodwork next week, and wants to try mk677 and then will post her bloodwork results.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Mk also gives me a nice jump in strength. I've never take gh but also never remember reading about that happenings with it.

MK-677 gives me about a 20% strength gain and it happens very quickly.

 

[tregar]

Yes, like Johnjuanb1 mentions, the strength gains & recovery are impressive (easily 20% plus), MK was the one item I added in which I noticed good strength gains 2 weeks later and still going strong some 5 months later. It really helps to have the igf-1 and GH levels of a gifted 16 year old now (372ng/ml me on daily 25mg mk677) compared to a 48 year old (227 me at high end baseline for age-group). And I can't say enough good things about using 8 to 10g of HMB daily (taken every 4 hours or so) as the half-life is 3 hours. I get the hmb powder and bcaa's dirt cheap from bulksupplements. Musclemedia 2000 was right about the HMB back in the day, it was just too expensive to use back then.

How HMB is anti-catabolic:

There are not many studies on HMB. But the studies that do exist show HMB to have to some positive attributes.

Markers Of Cell Damage

There are three main markers which researchers look at when examining muscular proteolysis (breakdown of protein into peptides or amino acids) or damage: creatine phosphokinase (CK), lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), and 3-methylhistidine (3-MH). Research has shown HMB supplementation to decrease all of these parameters 3, 7.

3-MH only shows up in the blood when contractile proteins break down, making it the best marker to use when examining the effects of exercise on muscle tissue.

A study examining this marker found that after one week of exercising, urine 3-MH levels increased by 94% in the control group, 85% in the group supplementing with 1.5 g HMB/day, and 50% in the group supplementing with 3 g HMB/day.

More interested is after two weeks of exercising, the urine 3-MH level of the control group was still 27% above their basal value, while the group supplementing with 1.5 g HMB/day value was 4% below their basal value and the 3 g HMB/day group was 15% below their basal value12. This shows the supplementing with HMB decreases the amount of contractile protein being broken down.

One study showed that supplementing with HMB decreased CK levels below the initial screening values at the two week mark, while the placebo group's CK levels were more than five times as much as their initial screening value8.

CK levels in the blood rise from CK from muscle cells "leaking" out due to membrane damage. This study shows that supplementing with HMB decreases damage done to the membranes of muscle cells since there was less "leaking" of CK out of the cells8.
Plasma Amino Acids & Urea

The sum of essential amino acids (EAA) in plasma increased by 32% in subjects not supplementing with HMB, decreased by 9% in subjects supplementing with 1.5 g HMB/day, and decreased 18% in subjects supplementing with 3 g HMB/day3.

Urine and plasma urea nitrogen measurements are used to access a person's nitrogen balance. High levels indicate excessive protein breakdown or dietary protein intake.

A study that measured these parameters found that supplementing with 3 g HMB/day decreased urinary urea nitrogen by 42% and plasma urea nitrogen by 26%, while the placebo group's measurements increased 8.

This shows there was less protein breakdown in the HMB group since both groups consumed about the same amount of protein8.

Less Contractile Protein Breakdown

The decrease in urinary 3-MH and plasma levels of EAA supports the theory that HMB decreases muscle proteolysis. Since the body cannot synthesis EAA, they must be acquired from dietary sources.

Therefore, any increase in EAA plasma levels would most likely be due to the breakdown of muscle tissue (the body's most abundant supply of amino acids). Two recent studies done by Smith et al. concluded "These results suggest that HMB attenuates PIF-induced activation and increased gene expression of the ubiquitin-proteasome proteolytic pathway, reducing protein degradation."

 

[kinetix]

great thread following as well !

 

[tregar]

Thanks Kinetix. I've literally blown up in the past 6 months, putting on 26lbs of fat free mass thanks to 25mg mk677 in the morning + HMB 10g a day. I've had more people come up to me in the past few weeks talking about my size out of nowhere, and wanting to start discussions about muscles...catched me off guard many times. TRT at 200mg a week combined with mk677 and HMB is a true game changer. I was using TRT before, but it was the addition of the other two that helped cause such large dramatic muscular changes and fast strength increases not to mention incredible recovery.

 

[picholas]

Thanks for replies rmtt, achilles415, sillichilli and cutler. Believe it or not, but I simply use the pure powder from auction sites, now I go directly to a site that used to be on auction, pm me if you need the place (no affiliation whatsoever), costs about 15 for a month supply at 20mg a day, compared to 170 for 100iu of Chinese pharm grade. High quality 1mg scales can be found on Amazon. I am impatient so I will be pulling the bloodwork this Friday after being on 20mg of mk677 for a week. I will post results 3 business days later. So far, I am a big fan of the stuff. Everyone reacts differently, Mike Arnold at one time posted he gets no lethargy from it, same here (lucky I guess in that sense). The taste is absolutely terrible, so I put it into empty green tea capsules. Thanks for following. From the results we are seeing, many are testing around the equivalent of 3 iu hgh, and some lucky people (those with beginning high igf-1 levels) are testing around the equivalent of 4iu of GH.

Hey Tregar, tried to PM you to see where you are buying this, won't let the PM go through. Can you please try PM'ing me, or share here?

Thanks!

 

[tregar]

I can get 1 gram of the pure powder in the US for 60 with shipping (will pm you picholas), as I no longer use auction sites (due to potential scammers). or go directly to china to get for $15 to $26 a gram. I like to save money, so I try to get a gram of the oral only which last 1.5 months. I used to love pureinfernonutrition who carried 100% pure for $35, but they went out of business. SRhealthtech in China had it for $11 a gram, but no longer carry it. He was also on auction as well as a store. He sold hundreds of very pure 1g lots, he is missed. I wrote about my scammed experience for a month above which makes me very careful nowadays.

During that month of taking mk which was only around 25% pure, I got not the best sleep, not enchanced recovery from workouts, very little in the way of strength gains, felt normal instead of "super-human". It just plain sucked being off it for me at least. I have been back on track with the pure stuff for around a week now, and feel so much better, pumps are back, fast recovery is back, stength gains are back again, and sleep/recovery is just super, and I feel great during the day (good mood) with enhanced energy and enthusiasm towards workouts.

p.s. that was a typo above, don't recommend using 10g of hmb a day as it will result in loose stools, 6 to 8g is plenty.

 

[picholas]

Thanks brother, been sitting on 700iu of black tops, want to do an igf comparison as well since I read this.

Was thinking of comparing 7 month cycles of each.

 

[tregar]

Sounds great brother. I still have a fridge full of potent HGH kits, but I still love the mk677 so much, so I continue with what works for now cheaply.