BrokenBones Fertility PCT HCG/HMG

[brokenbones]

Hello everyone. I recently started a fertility PCT for the purpose of restarting my system so that I am able to produce viable sperm and have a baby with my wife of 10 years, we have no children together. I have child from previous marriage who is now a teenager. I mention that for obvious reasons.

History: Currently 38 years old. I started TRT in 2010. Spring on 2011 I worked with a fertility doctor to try to regain fertility/sperm but failed. LH/FSH failed to rise and sides were awful to say the least. Wife made me get back on TRT, it was that bad, i'll spare you the drama. Got back on TRT plus took nandrolone for a while for other health reasons. (multiple myeloma cancer, muscle atrophy, osteroporosis, etc).

About a month and a half ago we decide to give it another shot and try to have a baby. Please note that at least for the last year or so I have tried to maintain testicular size by taking hCG at low doses.

I wrote some notes down, which I will edit, copy, and paste here, which outlines what I have done in the last month or so. I wrote the following to update my doctor and ask some questions. Turns out I will not be able to talk to him until next week so I thought i'd get some support/help/input from you guys until then and also use this thread to document my success (or failure) with this particular Fertility PCT.

Note: Triptorilen was not doctor prescribed nor recommended.

Meds: hCG 500IU EOD, hMG 150 IU EOD, 1mg Anastrozole
Supps: Vitamin E, Zinc, Cal, Mag, Curcumin, Vit D, DHEA, L-Arginine, L-Carnitine, Vit B12, etc.

Question at the bottom, sorry about format, does that everytime I copy and paste labs and can't fix for some reason...

Fertility PCT Notes

October 18, 2012 Last Nandrolone Injection

October 23, 2012 Last Testosterone Injection

October 31, 2012 Triptorelin 100mg Injection (GnRH)

November 1, 2012 Start 500 IU hCG, 150 IU hMG, 1mg Arimidex (Doing hcg/hmg one syringe intramuscularly. Everything good until further notation.

November 2, 2012 Scheduled labs for oncologist on this day so asked to have some labs drawn for our cause. Wasn’t able to get E2 on this one.

FSH 0.3 [1.4-18.1]
LH 0.07 [1.50-9.30]
Testosterone 1500 [300-1080]
SHBG 25 [11-80]
Bio, Testosterone <1082 [131-682]
Free Testosterone <397 [47-244]
Test. Percentage Free <2.6% [1.6-2.9%]

November 9, 2012 Woke up with symptoms of anxiety, distrust, wife notices something not right.

November 10, 2012 Noticing little joint pain, hairloss, moodiness, emotional sides, unable to ejaculate. I lower Adex to .5mg and thyroid med a bit.
November 11, 2012 Libido gone.

November 21, 2012 Increased Adex back to 1mg to try to counteract sides mentioned before.

November 26,2012 Scheduled labs for oncologist on this day so asked again to have labs drawn for our cause.

FSH 3.5 [1.4-18.1]
LH 0.07 [1.50-9.30]
Testosterone 1001 [300-1080]
SHBG 24 [11-80]
Bio, Testosterone 677 [131-682]
Free Testosterone 254 [47-244]
Test. Percentage Free <2.5% [1.6-2.9%]

November 29, 2012 Feeling better. Emotional sides and moodiness have diminished. Libido gone but not worried about that because I have Viagra/Cialis/Trimix. Gained 5 lbs and still going to gym but struggling. Testicle size should be better, but not.



Question: Really happy about FSH, last time I tried this it only raised to 0.5 (same range as above). My problem is the LH, I don't understand why it is not raising??? Test is really high. What kind of adjustments can we make?

Question: With levels the way they are right now, are my testes more than likely producing sperm now? Has the 75 day sperm maturation period begun?

 

[pittsburgh]

came off 200mg weekly Testosterone and at did 12 weeks of hcg 1000iu twice a week. After that, sperm count was good but not great and Test level was 350.

currently on 50mg clomid, M W F and hcg 1000 iu twice a week. sperm count is great and i feel much much better.

trying to get the wife prego too.

we just did a round of IUI.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

OP your tests levels are top of range aren't they?
why not try some clomid.

 

[brokenbones]

came off 200mg weekly Testosterone and at did 12 weeks of hcg 1000iu twice a week. After that, sperm count was good but not great and Test level was 350.

currently on 50mg clomid, M W F and hcg 1000 iu twice a week. sperm count is great and i feel much much better.

trying to get the wife prego too.

we just did a round of IUI.

Pittsburgh,

Thank you for responding and good luck!

So initially you came off test and did 1000IU twice a week and that produced some good sperm, correct? At that point, assuming you did labs and sperm test, what were your LH and FSH levels, please include range. Most curious at knowing results of FSH after taking hCG only.

Then later you started clomid, what was sperm count after that and how long were you on the clomid when you did those labs?

Any info will help. Cost of hMG is killing me, wifey wants answers. She wants to know how long need to keep buying hmg because it's really expensive. Trying to understand all this better so if you good share those things it'd be a help to me. Again, take care and good luck to you both!

 

[brokenbones]

OP your tests levels are top of range aren't they?
why not try some clomid.

Simpllyhuge, didn't include it because Doc said no. :naughty:

 

[Simpllyhuge]

Why did he say no? If you end up feeling it will help, fuck him, and take it.

 

[brokenbones]

Why did he say no? If you end up feeling it will help, fuck him, and take it.

Bro, when I had my initial consult I was sitting there taking notes and trying to understand everything the best I could. He did explain why but I don't think I can explain it like he did lol, I screw it up for sure. Basically he said you can restart at the hyposumthing or at the testes. hCG/hMG did it one way and clomid/other meds do it another way.

I understand what your saying that if I feel it will help just to go ahead and do it. I felt triptorelin might help so I did it without asking "permission" but let him know I felt it would help and was going to take it. I respect this doctor so i am going to try my best to follow his protocol the best I can.

Thanks SH!!!

 

[SlimyToodleTot]

Get a sperm check count. At this point, that is really all that matters. True, in the beginning things like LH and FSH are important but if trying to have kids is the goal, then sperm count and mobility is all that matters. My wife and I went through this and after one month on HCG (I took clomid and nova too w/o mentioning it), my sperm was over 10,000,000 with good mobility. This is after being on for 4 years with sperm below 2,000,000 with poor mobility. Seeing fertility doc's, honestly is more about the woman. A guy's role feels like a donor of genetic material, that's it. They don't ask the men about family history or ask how we're doing. All they care about is if we have viable sperm at that point and it becomes all about the female since she does most of the work. I just find it weird that he's still looking at blood tests, not sperm tests at this point. Once the sperm levels come up, there's no need for a male fertility doc. Going strictly off blood tests at this point is like checking estrogen levels to see if your test is good. Get a sperm count stat! p. s. after 11 months of staying off, we now have a baby boy. There were some issues with her genetically that had to be fixed that we checked for after the second miscarriage. Things having to do with folic acid. It's all part of the process....

 

[brokenbones]

Get a sperm check count. At this point, that is really all that matters. True, in the beginning things like LH and FSH are important but if trying to have kids is the goal, then sperm count and mobility is all that matters. My wife and I went through this and after one month on HCG (I took clomid and nova too w/o mentioning it), my sperm was over 10,000,000 with good mobility. This is after being on for 4 years with sperm below 2,000,000 with poor mobility. Seeing fertility doc's, honestly is more about the woman. A guy's role feels like a donor of genetic material, that's it. They don't ask the men about family history or ask how we're doing. All they care about is if we have viable sperm at that point and it becomes all about the female since she does most of the work. I just find it weird that he's still looking at blood tests, not sperm tests at this point. Once the sperm levels come up, there's no need for a male fertility doc. Going strictly off blood tests at this point is like checking estrogen levels to see if your test is good. Get a sperm count stat! p. s. after 11 months of staying off, we now have a baby boy. There were some issues with her genetically that had to be fixed that we checked for after the second miscarriage. Things having to do with folic acid. It's all part of the process....

Hey what's up! Yeah we corresponded a few times through private message. It's because of you that I got my chick started on folic acid.

I guess the reason i'm stressing the LH/FSH numbers so much is because last time (6/11) I tried this they stayed flat. LH 0.07 and 0.5 FSH. Also at that time I had two sperm checks and both times I got ZERO everything. So I am 99.9% sure that when I started this PCT I was zero sperm. So since it takes over 75 days to make viable sperm I think I will wait at least that much time before I check it. Blood work is already scheduled monthly for other health issues so I just ask that particular doc to throw in the hormone tests for other doc since were drawing blood anyways.

Again, congrats! And I hope to update this thread in a couple of months with a similar success story as yours! :headbang:

 

[Dopamin]

you dont need to take 150OU HMG eod
it is enough when you take 50-75 IU ed

its impotant to know that it takes several months until yoor body produce healthy sperms at least 3-4 months

 

[brokenbones]

you dont need to take 150OU HMG eod
it is enough when you take 50-75 IU ed

its impotant to know that it takes several months until yoor body produce healthy sperms at least 3-4 months

Dopamin,

How are you doing with your PCT? Have you had labs? What does your FSH look like with only 75IU? How's your LH? Is it low like mine or what? Any luck yet? How you feeling?

What are your test levels with that much hCG?

Thanks for the advice.

Primarily because of cost/lack of finances I am lowering my dose to 75IU starting yesterday 12/1/2012 until further notation.

 

[Dopamin]

i really feel a change in my libido and sex drive since i started my new pct.
i have sex 2 or 3 times a day now and i am still horny
my girl and i deceided to wait with the baby until next summer.

my pct looks like

MO:500IU HCG
TU:37.5IU HMG and 25mg Clomiphene + 0.25 Arimidex
WE:25mg Clomiphene
TH:500IU HCG
FR:37.5IU HMG and 25mg Clomiphene + 0.25 Arimidex
SA:500IU HCG
SU:TU:37.5IU HMG and 25mg Clomiphene + 0.25 Arimidex

 

[brokenbones]

i really feel a change in my libido and sex drive since i started my new pct.
i have sex 2 or 3 times a day now and i am still horny
my girl and i deceided to wait with the baby until next summer.

my pct looks like

MO:500IU HCG
TU:37.5IU HMG and 25mg Clomiphene + 0.25 Arimidex
WE:25mg Clomiphene
TH:500IU HCG
FR:37.5IU HMG and 25mg Clomiphene + 0.25 Arimidex
SA:500IU HCG
SU:TU:37.5IU HMG and 25mg Clomiphene + 0.25 Arimidex

Thanks for the update! How did you come up with 37.5 IU hMG? Did you just divide the dose from 75IU ampule? So did you mix and then store one half in the fridge?

 

[numba1scrapper]

op, I dont think lh and fsh matters as much as your making it out to be, My fsh and lh levels are perfectly fine and my semen anaylsis was still TERRIBLE. I've since have done 2kiu eod of hcg for 1 month and did 50mg clomid ed for the same 1 month.. About 2 weeks ago I did 1 single shot of triptorelin and I go for a repeat semen anaylisis the 21 of this month.... Then again maybe im just wierd, bc youd think 2kiu eod of hcg for an entire month would make my balls bigger, but there still small.

these were my results to my semen analysis and also below were my current bloods

Semen Analysis 1 Profile
Morphology Kruger 0 --- 4-14%
Morphology Who 10--- 30-100%
Raw Concentration 3--- 20-200M/ml
Raw Volume 2.0--- 1.5-5.0ml
Raw motility FF+SF 40 50-100%
Raw Tomo 2--- 20-200M
Washed Concentration 4--- 20-200M/Ml
Washed Volume 1.0--- 0.5-2.0ml
Washed motility FF+SF 14--- 50-100%
Washed Tomo <1 (0.56)--- 13-200M
Round Cells SA 6--- <8 HPF

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

[brokenbones]

op, I dont think lh and fsh matters as much as your making it out to be, My fsh and lh levels are perfectly fine and my semen anaylsis was still TERRIBLE. I've since have done 2kiu eod of hcg for 1 month and did 50mg clomid ed for the same 1 month.. About 2 weeks ago I did 1 single shot of triptorelin and I go for a repeat semen anaylisis the 21 of this month.... Then again maybe im just wierd, bc youd think 2kiu eod of hcg for an entire month would make my balls bigger, but there still small.

these were my results to my semen analysis and also below were my current bloods

Semen Analysis 1 Profile
Morphology Kruger 0 --- 4-14%
Morphology Who 10--- 30-100%
Raw Concentration 3--- 20-200M/ml
Raw Volume 2.0--- 1.5-5.0ml
Raw motility FF+SF 40 50-100%
Raw Tomo 2--- 20-200M
Washed Concentration 4--- 20-200M/Ml
Washed Volume 1.0--- 0.5-2.0ml
Washed motility FF+SF 14--- 50-100%
Washed Tomo <1 (0.56)--- 13-200M
Round Cells SA 6--- <8 HPF

-----------------------------------------------------------
number1scrapper,

Thanks for sharing your labs and SA. Your labs look great. When you write "2kiu" is that an abbreviated 2000 IU ? If so, that's heavy. I did something like 2000iu to 3000IU last year when I tried this. Can't remember last protocol exactly but balls did get normal to bigger size. Prior to that I had never done any TRT dose over what I was prescribed if you catch what I'm saying. Not so this time around and I seem to be having the same problem. They seem only 65% of their previous size.

Can't comment on Semen Analysis (SA), knowledge is very limited in this area. Try copy and paste your post over at this Infertility Forum that I am going to put a link up for you. Maybe someone there can help. Good luck to you! **broken link removed**

 

[numba1scrapper]

op, I dont think lh and fsh matters as much as your making it out to be, My fsh and lh levels are perfectly fine and my semen anaylsis was still TERRIBLE. I've since have done 2kiu eod of hcg for 1 month and did 50mg clomid ed for the same 1 month.. About 2 weeks ago I did 1 single shot of triptorelin and I go for a repeat semen anaylisis the 21 of this month.... Then again maybe im just wierd, bc youd think 2kiu eod of hcg for an entire month would make my balls bigger, but there still small.

these were my results to my semen analysis and also below were my current bloods

Semen Analysis 1 Profile
Morphology Kruger 0 --- 4-14%
Morphology Who 10--- 30-100%
Raw Concentration 3--- 20-200M/ml
Raw Volume 2.0--- 1.5-5.0ml
Raw motility FF+SF 40 50-100%
Raw Tomo 2--- 20-200M
Washed Concentration 4--- 20-200M/Ml
Washed Volume 1.0--- 0.5-2.0ml
Washed motility FF+SF 14--- 50-100%
Washed Tomo <1 (0.56)--- 13-200M
Round Cells SA 6--- <8 HPF

-----------------------------------------------------------
number1scrapper,

Thanks for sharing your labs and SA. Your labs look great. When you write "2kiu" is that an abbreviated 2000 IU ? If so, that's heavy. I did something like 2000iu to 3000IU last year when I tried this. Can't remember last protocol exactly but balls did get normal to bigger size. Prior to that I had never done any TRT dose over what I was prescribed if you catch what I'm saying. Not so this time around and I seem to be having the same problem. They seem only 65% of their previous size.

Can't comment on Semen Analysis (SA), knowledge is very limited in this area. Try copy and paste your post over at this Infertility Forum that I am going to put a link up for you. Maybe someone there can help. Good luck to you! **broken link removed**

yes, 2,000iu every other day, thanks

 

[RexHead]

My g/f and I are working trying to conceive. Here is the protocol I was prescribed:

1000 iu HCG 3x / week
75iu HMG (menopur) 3X/week
50 mg clomid every day

I continued with my trt.

My total semen went from 5 to 10 million in 80 days. We are still doing ICSI because of the low morphology/motility.

Don't forgot that it takes ~70 days for sperm to mature. I didn't see big results until 60+ days.

 

[SlimyToodleTot]

I'm glad you're still going through with it. Your mind will always want instant gratification by getting back "on" but you're smart to make this a priority. I hadn't realized you're sperm levels were zero, my bad. When I was seeing the male fertility doc he told me a story of a cop that had to use steroids for years "because his life depended on it because he was kicking in doors of drug dealers." I know, doesn't make much sense to me either, taking drugs to bust drug dealers but whatever. Anyways, to make a long story short, my numbers came back, his didn't. But, they got them raised just enough to go in there and extract SOME sperm from his balls to be used for IUI or IVF. IUI is where they just put the sperm in a syringe and put it in the vagina during ovulation. Much cheaper but only about a 50% success rate. It cost us about $500 per IUI. IVF they actually take the egg out of the woman, fertilize it outside of the body, then insert the fertilized egg back in the uterus. This costs about $20,000 and there's no guarantees either but I think the success rate is higher but as you can see, much more expensive. The doctors believe that they're may be a genetic component as to why some steroid users are able to get their sperm levels up after years with PCT and why it doesn't work as well on On some people. So at this point, it does seem as though your DR knows what he's doing. He may be working in conjunction with the regular fertility Dr since your case is a little more complicated. I think your numbers will come up some with time off and extended PCT. You've had one kid so you weren't born without sperm. That means that you're more likely to get those numbers up from zero. Keep your head up and keep us posted. God bless!

 

[Dopamin]

My g/f and I are working trying to conceive. Here is the protocol I was prescribed:

1000 iu HCG 3x / week
75iu HMG (menopur) 3X/week
50 mg clomid every day

I continued with my trt.

My total semen went from 5 to 10 million in 80 days. We are still doing ICSI because of the low morphology/motility.

Don't forgot that it takes ~70 days for sperm to mature. I didn't see big results until 60+ days.

yes....must of the guys here forget the fact that the maturation for sperms take 90 days

 

[brokenbones]

My g/f and I are working trying to conceive. Here is the protocol I was prescribed:

1000 iu HCG 3x / week
75iu HMG (menopur) 3X/week
50 mg clomid every day

I continued with my trt.

My total semen went from 5 to 10 million in 80 days. We are still doing ICSI because of the low morphology/motility.

Don't forgot that it takes ~70 days for sperm to mature. I didn't see big results until 60+ days.

Wow, that menopur is expensive stuff. HMU if you need some leads on where to get some hMG. Also if you and your girl need help financially with that type or other name brand fertility meds try filling out an application with Fertility Lifelines/Freedom Pharmacy and also look into the Heart Program. For hCG compounding pharmacy is usually cheaper. Most insurance don't cover infertility.

Yeah, I know about the sperm maturity that's why I won't bother going through the hassle/embarrassment of doing that until I absolutely have to.

I hear now that they have sperm testers at pharmacy. I read online that you can even check your own if you have a microscope.

Let me ask you a question... When is best time for woman to get pregnant. I was looking into breeding my bulldog and with them you count a certain amount of days after period and then you use some kind of ovulation kit and go from there. How is it done with women? Any basic info will help lol.

Good luck to you. Thanks for sharing. Still waiting to talk to doctor, going to mention clomid again.