BrokenBones Fertility PCT HCG/HMG

[RexHead]

Let me ask you a question... When is best time for woman to get pregnant.How is it done with women? Any basic info will help lol.

Our doctor told us a woman is most fertile a few days before her ovulation (since sperm survives a few days inside her) up until 24 hours after her ovulation (when the egg will die if it's not fertilized). The doc said typically a woman ovulates 14 days after the first day of her period.

My girls period/menstrual cycle is not normal. Her cycle wasn't always 28 days and some months she spots all month. We couldn't use an ovulation calendar. There were other signs she was going to ovulate. Her vaginal secretions changed so we were able to predict when she was going to ovulate. We also had sex every other day trying to keep live sperm inside of her. We did use an ovulation kit just to double check. As soon as she ovulated we made sure to have sex within 12 hours.

Now that we are doing IVF we don't have to worry about any of that. Everything is controlled with meds and they grab her eggs when they reach a certain size.

She just had an ultrasound today and there are 13 eggs growing inside her.

My total semen went from 5 to 10 million in 80 days.

Just to clarify...I meant it went from five (yes only 5 were detected) to 10 million. Not 5 million to 10 million.

 

[brokenbones]

Our doctor told us a woman is most fertile a few days before her ovulation (since sperm survives a few days inside her) up until 24 hours after her ovulation (when the egg will die if it's not fertilized). The doc said typically a woman ovulates 14 days after the first day of her period.

My girls period/menstrual cycle is not normal. Her cycle wasn't always 28 days and some months she spots all month. We couldn't use an ovulation calendar. There were other signs she was going to ovulate. Her vaginal secretions changed so we were able to predict when she was going to ovulate. We also had sex every other day trying to keep live sperm inside of her. We did use an ovulation kit just to double check. As soon as she ovulated we made sure to have sex within 12 hours.

Now that we are doing IVF we don't have to worry about any of that. Everything is controlled with meds and they grab her eggs when they reach a certain size.

She just had an ultrasound today and there are 13 eggs growing inside her.



Just to clarify...I meant it went from five (yes only 5 were detected) to 10 million. Not 5 million to 10 million.

Very useful information. Thanks!!! And congrats on the positive ultrasound, good luck!!!

 

[herman01]

This is some great info guys. Im trying to get my wife pregnant while still on trt by taking hcg and clomid(just started a week ago)..looks like i need to up my dosages on those two.

 

[RexHead]

Very useful information. Thanks!!! And congrats on the positive ultrasound, good luck!!!

Thank you. While its a positive sign there is so many variables that we just continue to pray. This is our third IVF attempt.

First one she ovulated before harvest. Her meds were increased.
Second one we fertilized 7 eggs, 4 grew and were implanted, and none attached.

I'm just happy I could produce sperm and ICSI is available. I was not ok with donor sperm. I know a lot of guys are, and I can understand it, but its not for me. Kind of a double standard because I did agree to donor eggs (we aren't there yet but it was discussed). But my feeling is at least she grew the baby.

 

[Dopamin]

when you on TRT the chance that you get your wife pregnenat is very small

you need testosterone for sperm production but it have to be intracellular testosterone told me the doc

 

[brokenbones]

Update on meds- CLOMID

Just an update to my regimen. Many of you suggested Clomid would help me. Since I had to decrease my dose of hMG recently I feel comfortable doing it. Also have Toremifene 30 mg. How can I combine these two to my current protocol???

I'm thinking...
50mg Clomid ED
60mg Toremifene ED Split and taken in two doses daily. ???

Please read my current protocol above before posting replies. Gracias

 

[RexHead]

How long where you on the HMG? I assume you are taking your original protocol and adding these correct?

Just some info that helps to show you should be able to end hmg and continue HCG and continue producing sperm for a good amount of time.

Eur J Endocrinol. 2002 Nov;147(5):617-24.
Maintenance of spermatogenesis in hypogonadotropic hypogonadal men with human chorionic gonadotropin alone.
Depenbusch M, von Eckardstein S, Simoni M, Nieschlag E.
Source
Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University, Domagkstr. 11, Munster D-48149, Germany.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
It is generally accepted that both gonadotropins LH and FSH are necessary for initiation and maintenance of spermatogenesis. We investigated the relative importance of FSH for the maintenance of spermatogenesis in hypogonadotropic men.
SUBJECTS AND METHODS:
13 patients with gonadotropin deficiency due to idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH), Kallmann syndrome or pituitary insufficiency were analyzed retrospectively. They had been treated with gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) (n=1) or human chorionic gonadotropin/human menopausal gonadotropin (hCG/hMG) (n=12) for induction of spermatogenesis. After successful induction of spermatogenesis they were treated with hCG alone for maintenance of secondary sex characteristics and in order to check whether sperm production could be maintained by hCG alone. Serum LH, FSH and testosterone levels, semen parameters and testicular Volume were determined every three to six Months.
RESULTS:
After spermatogenesis had been successfully induced by treatment with GnRH or hCG/hMG, hCG treatment alone continued for 3-24 Months. After 12 Months under hCG alone, sperm counts decreased gradually but remained present in all patients except one who became azoospermic. Testicular Volume decreased only slightly and reached 87% of the Volume achieved with hCG/hMG. During treatment with hCG alone, FSH and LH levels were suppressed to below the detection limit of the assay.
CONCLUSION:
Once spermatogenesis is induced in patients with secondary hypogonadism by GnRH or hCG/hMG treatment, it can be maintained in most of the patients qualitatively by hCG alone, in the absence of FSH, for extended periods. However, the decreasing sperm counts indicate that FSH is essential for maintenance of quantitatively normal spermatogenesis.

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1978 Dec;89(4):763-9.
Maintenance of spermatogenesis induced by HMG treatment by means of continuous HCG treatment in hypogonadotrophic men.
Johnsen SG.
Abstract
In a long-term hypophysectomized male HCG treatment was unable to initiate spermatogenesis. However, a spermatogenesis induced by HMG/HCG treatment could be maintained by HCG alone for 7 years with clinical fertility. In another hypogonadotrophic male HCG was also unable to initiate spermatogenesis. But a spermatogenesis once induced by HMG/HCG treatment could be maintained for more than one year with HCG alone. It is suggested that gonadotrophin treatment of the hypogonadotrophic male should consist of HMG + HCG until complete spermatogenesis is induced followed by maintenance treatment with HCG.

 

[brokenbones]

How long where you on the HMG? I assume you are taking your original protocol and adding these correct?

Just some info that helps to show you should be able to end hmg and continue HCG and continue producing sperm for a good amount of time.

Rexhead,

I've been on hMG since Nov 1, so around 40 days. Yes original protocol except recent decrease in hMG from 150IU to 75IU due to high cost of hMG. Thanks for the info...

Most likely won't stop hMG until pregnancy occurs. (If doesn't happen by March then maybe i'll stop hMG at that point)

Thanks!

 

[brokenbones]

UPDATE

Around day 30 I started feeling a subtle tingling or pulsating feeling in my nuts. Ran it by a few members and seems like it should be a good sign.

My doc reviewed my labs and commented that indeed my T levels are high considering my last injections and that once my T levels begin to drop my nuts will begin to grow and will likely hurt a bit. (Good to know so I don't freak out later lol)

If you've been following this thread you know that I have been concerned with my lack of LH levels rising. I was told that hCG mimics LH but does not show up as LH on labs. Good to know, did not know that.

Today is Day 41 of Fertility PCT. :headbang:

 

[brokenbones]

Day 46 Update

So a few days I decided to throw in some Clomid/Tore 50/60mg. Ran for two days along with hcg/hmg 500/75 IU. On the second day I felt like extremely crappy, so much that I discontinued the Clomid/Tore.

Next day I was doing some reading. I have a book called BodyBuilders which is a Christian Devotional book with stories a page long explaining a certain Bible verse for the day. I opened it up and the verse was Genesis 17:16-19. If your interested in a good story feel free to check it out in your Bible if you have one. Anyhow there was a couple who were very old and wanted a kid but instead of waiting on God they sort of wanted to do their own thing and help God out instead of waiting around for God to keep his promise. God had promised him a son earlier. They ended up making things worse by their impatience and that's what I think I have been doing.

So from this day on, no more stressing about it. I'm going to finish the hCG/hMG which will end on December 19, 2012 and after that just do the hCG. Thanks for reading.

 

[Dopamin]

maybe you should also use Tamoxifen

i also tried, Clom but i felt like shit
Tamoxifen works really good in my case


i also discontinued hcg and hmd since 10 days,i use only Tamoxifen twice a day and i feel very good.

 

[Strunk]

I've heard that you can still stay on HRT while using hmg, but if your using hcg/clomid...you need to come off. Is this true? Off HRT...my test is at 99ng and I feel like total crap.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

Why don't you use the clomid at 25 mg a day and tough it out. Also add some novla. The HCG is going to suppress your LH, so unless you are producing sperm on HCG then discontinue it after starting the clomid at 25 mg and the novla at 20 or more.

That bible verse is pretty irrelevant.
you can't judge things day by day. Just take the clomid at 25 mg plus the novla and wait up to SEVERAL months. HCG needs to stop for you to recover your own LH.

 

[TallMan]

I'm on this protocol:
500iu hcg once a week
75iu hmg twice a week

If I take more hcg I get gyno and anti e's make me feel like #$% so I hope it's enough

We've been at it for about 3 months now and have a lot of sex around her ovulation but no luck yet

 

[brokenbones]

Day 62 UPDATE

So today is day 62 of my fertility pct.

Changes to my protocol include the following:

Day 50 (Dec 19, 2012) was my last hMG injection. Ran out and not going to buy anymore, too expensive. This day forward (Day 51) only taking 500 IU hCG EOD.

Day 58 Labs...

Testosterone not in yet.
FSH 0.3 (1.4-18.1)
LH 0.07 (1.50-9.30)

 

[Simpllyhuge]

Your LH levels are not going to rise while you are on HCG.

 

[brokenbones]

Your LH levels are not going to rise while you are on HCG.

Yeah, doc explained that to me recently, good to know. What about fsh? Last labs while on hmg it rose nicely but I had to discontinue a couple weeks ago. The numbers last quoted are about a week post discontinuation of hmg?

 

[Myself]

op, I dont think lh and fsh matters as much as your making it out to be, My fsh and lh levels are perfectly fine and my semen anaylsis was still TERRIBLE. I've since have done 2kiu eod of hcg for 1 month and did 50mg clomid ed for the same 1 month.. About 2 weeks ago I did 1 single shot of triptorelin and I go for a repeat semen anaylisis the 21 of this month.... Then again maybe im just wierd, bc youd think 2kiu eod of hcg for an entire month would make my balls bigger, but there still small.

these were my results to my semen analysis and also below were my current bloods

Semen Analysis 1 Profile
Morphology Kruger 0 --- 4-14%
Morphology Who 10--- 30-100%
Raw Concentration 3--- 20-200M/ml
Raw Volume 2.0--- 1.5-5.0ml
Raw motility FF+SF 40 50-100%
Raw Tomo 2--- 20-200M
Washed Concentration 4--- 20-200M/Ml
Washed Volume 1.0--- 0.5-2.0ml
Washed motility FF+SF 14--- 50-100%
Washed Tomo <1 (0.56)--- 13-200M
Round Cells SA 6--- <8 HPF

-----------------------------------------------------------

can you scan those pages for me. I see something wrong. I need clarity!

 

[mace123]

Yeah, doc explained that to me recently, good to know. What about fsh? Last labs while on hmg it rose nicely but I had to discontinue a couple weeks ago. The numbers last quoted are about a week post discontinuation of hmg?

Bb, what were you spending on your hmg? The cheapest I've found is $25/vial from a london based pharmacy that is big on infertility forums and supposedly even recommended by some clinics.

Being that it is not a product that any of our sponsors carry (that I'm aware of) the place is ivfmeds.com.

I'm thinking of adding 37.5iu 2x/week to my trt protocol just to keep the little guys swimming until I'm ready to use them. I'm still looking into it, but from what little I have read so far it may be able to help retain fertility for someone like me that wishes to avoid future complications.

 

[brokenbones]

Bb, what were you spending on your hmg? The cheapest I've found is $25/vial from a london based pharmacy that is big on infertility forums and supposedly even recommended by some clinics.

Being that it is not a product that any of our sponsors carry (that I'm aware of) the place is ivfmeds.com.

I'm thinking of adding 37.5iu 2x/week to my trt protocol just to keep the little guys swimming until I'm ready to use them. I'm still looking into it, but from what little I have read so far it may be able to help retain fertility for someone like me that wishes to avoid future complications.

Yeah, seems like everyone is pointing to ivfmeds.com on all the fertility forums i've been on. My source dried up and no longer has hmg. You can also try craigslist and try to get some females left over ivf meds. You might get lucky. Good luck to you.