Cytradren

[PHIL HERNON]

Another thing I have noticed

The same people on here giving dosage advice are on here the next week looking for answers for their cycles. What Einsteins!! You ask these people questions??This site should be about training and diet advice. So many people are concerned about steroids that it is getting sad. Even some Mods on her get upset when someone blames steroids for health problems in our sport. WAKE UP. This is why I have so much respect for Skip, Dante, IABADMAN. These guys dont come on here preaching drugs, just hard work and diet manipulation. I dont mean to offend anyone here, I also dont want to be a hypocrite, but we need to keep it real. Lets put diet and training first, leave the drug talk to PMs.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

After your show you were complaining about all your weight gain and feeling bad. Were you prepared for that to happen? Rebound? The next time you need a doctor to save your life, I hope he doesnt remmeber you from a BBing site where you have put up your pictures and drug dosages all the while telling us that doctors dont know shit. He/she just might not want toi help you since they dont know shit.

lol well yes i was prepared, i just didnt do what i know i should have. I ate and ate and ate and drank shitloads of fluid with tons of sodium, BUT i did taper off the diuretics as i should and kicked my water intake back up high as i should have, it just didnt work with my SHIT diet. I was enjoyin myself so i delt with the bloat. When i got tired of it, i came HERE and got great advice, which stopped it. I seriously doubt my doctor woulda had an idea what to do about it. He probably woulda prescribed lasix lol (which didnt work by the way)

When i need advice in the bodybuilding field with anythng that i am taking or plan to take, i come HERE or IntenseMuscle. I have learned to decispher good advice from bad and who to listen to and who not to. Pro/Intense muscle hasnt failed me yet, and i feel privilaged to have a place like this to go for help.

I have been to more than a few different doctors that, when i discussed AAS or anything in that field, they proved to me they dont know SHIT. Unless hes a doctor in the field like MikeS says that specializes in that area, hes probably not too on top of the subject and up to date with info. Now im not callin doctors idiots or say they dont know their stuff, cuase they do, just not in this specific area to the extent we would like.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

lol well yes i was prepared, i just didnt do what i know i should have. I ate and ate and ate and drank shitloads of fluid with tons of sodium, BUT i did taper off the diuretics as i should and kicked my water intake back up high as i should have, it just didnt work with my SHIT diet. I was enjoyin myself so i delt with the bloat. When i got tired of it, i came HERE and got great advice, which stopped it. I seriously doubt my doctor woulda had an idea what to do about it. He probably woulda prescribed lasix lol (which didnt work by the way)

When i need advice in the bodybuilding field with anythng that i am taking or plan to take, i come HERE or IntenseMuscle. I have learned to decispher good advice from bad and who to listen to and who not to. Pro/Intense muscle hasnt failed me yet, and i feel privilaged to have a place like this to go for help.

I have been to more than a few different doctors that, when i discussed AAS or anything in that field, they proved to me they dont know SHIT. Unless hes a doctor in the field like MikeS says that specializes in that area, hes probably not too on top of the subject and up to date with info. Now im not callin doctors idiots or say they dont know their stuff, cuase they do, just not in this specific area to the extent we would like.

Who gave you advice? Where did that advice come from? A doctor. I understand your point, dont think I do. A doctors true knowledge just might surprise you if they spent more than 5 minutes with you while worrying about their next patient or if you have insurance.

 

[MikeS]

Yes I agree all doctors are not bozos, but you must admit-as a group they have come off as such in relation to their opinions on steroids.And this is not new-their collective stand has for decades been FAR off the mark. Id bet an endocronoligist would of course be more knolwdgeble in the field of hormone
manipulation. And a doctor can read a array of bloodwork more accurately than most of us. But for HTR, what is so special? Low test levels, precribe 100-200mg test wk. We go way beyond that (like it or not-its reality) in the complicated cycles we construct. And I'll repeat-Cytadren is very dangerous and I for one, wont use it. But ignorance (by not discussing AS use on BBing forums) wont solve anything, instead the opposite. It would be the same as making AS illegal (so we go black market instead); or banning prohormones (so people use AS instead). Do any of those restrictions work? Hell no. Neither will stopping talk of drug use on the boards-it will just lead to more
ignorance and less education. The one problem is that any idiot can profess to be a 'guru' and unfortunately some will listen. This is where personal responsibility comes into play. Dont be lazy! Throughly examine and study everything BEFORE you use it. I mean for months. I did this before I used AS (studied for 1yr). Same with Slin, IGF1, gh...Ive made a few mistakes, but I honestly did my best to learn first and not take the word of the first guy who opened his mouth on something. This is everyones responsibility, and if you dont do this, you have noone to blame but yourself. And these boards and their discussions on drugs and other subjects provide us the chance to accomplish that.
In the end its each persons decision to use what they may. Trying to impress ones own standards on everyone is plainly judgemental, and there is really no
room for judgement here-especially in what we do. You can use test but gh is crazy...or anything above 500mg is nuts...or slin use is insane, just because I say so, or because thats what I do-who makes that call? Do you know how many people in the public society see a guy who only uses 500mg test wk and is 5'9" 225 8% as a complete freak? Noone need to impose judgement here especially within our community, its a contridiction of what we believe in (the right to make what we want of ourselves). Of course common sense should be used-but one guys common sense is anothers insanity.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Do you know how many people in the public society see a guy who only uses 500mg test wk and is 5'9" 225 8% as a complete freak?

what r u tryin to say, im not a freak? ..... lol

 

[Skip]

Skip, I always thought Cytadren was most effective in lowering Cortisol levels, more so than lowering estro and andro (yes, lowers testosterone) levels. Or aldosterone. It lowers the Demolase hormone, kind of a master hormone.

It is incredibly effective at lowering cortisol levels but not at the lower dosages. It is first, at lower dosages, an aromotase inhibitor and will lower aldosterone levels considerably and relatively quickly even at these lower dosages. I won't comment on my opinions of what lower and higher dosing is because I don't want to put info out here that is partial or not complete and not geared toward that particular individual. If someone were to take my info and run with it and something happened, I would feel terrible.

Cytadren does lower desmolase but not significantly until the dosing is higher and this is directly related to ACTH production in the pituitary. Now, I disagree when it has been said that dosing can't get around this. You can most certainly get around this AND the dosing pattern that I use allows less stress on the adrenal glands, as well. I have had very good success with my guys that use this compound. I also have not had one guy blow up after a show from cytadren use and this was without a taper after the show. I have since implemented a taper that I feel is even easier on the adrenal glands. In my opinion, TP4U blew up because he approached post contest in the wrong manner at the dinner table trying to impress his boyfriend by eating as much food as he could. I believe that this was his problem, not the cytadren.

I do agree that cytadren is NOTHING to play around with. Anyone who knows me knows that I am a very cautious individual when it comes to taking compounds either precontest or not. I am always VERY up front with my guys that this stuff is serious shit and that it is not a necessity for contest prep. I do feel it is incredibly effective for guys who get into crazy condition to get that extra added touch that you just don't and can't get without using cytadren.

Phil, I completely understand your comments about doctors and I agree that talking with your doctor about your supplementation would be ideal but I don't ever see this happening for 99% of the doctors out there. I think it safe to say that if you went to your dad and asked him about cytadren and what you could expect from a certain dosing protocol he would probably look you blankly in the face and say "wuh?"

I would love to see professionalmuscle become less of a drug type board with more attention and focus on nutrition and training but I don't see this changing any time soon.

Skip

 

[Iabadman]

Thanks Phil, for the words of respect ,the feeling is mutual for sure . Maybe we are wiser because we learned some hard lessons from our involvement with AAS and we both have been pro in our respective sports .I just can't believe how complex all young kids what to make bodybuilding . Always thinking there are secrets and hidden processes . TP4U is a great example of this . He is great kid , cool as hell , and very knowlegable . But he doesn't get it . He is all over the place searching for the trueth that will make him great . He admits to using gear publically and gives advice to others on use . [ both things are illegal ] He thinks knowing every little water manipulation tactic is somehow important , when the bottom line is that competitive bodybuilding is about genetics period .........The overall USA champ this year was on 900 total mgs a week at 8 weeks out and the 4th place heavy was on 700 mgs a week and some gh [and lets just say this isn't heresay .]When you were winning shows ,I bet you weren't using anti -e's and crazy carb loading and water methods . [ and I know you weren't a big gear user ] It sad when I see kids using before 25 [ I was 23 ] because it alters your natural hormone output forever and mentally you are not giving yourself a chance to get better without them .[ setting yourself for early failure ] I love TP4U's drive , thirst , and ambition to be the best he can be . But I think he jumped the gun and is setting himself up to fail . Think about it .....can he be a competive national level guy in the future ? Probally ......but does he have pro genetics ? I think he will even say no way on that .......So think about it .....what is he doing by competing in bodybuilding ? Risking his health , his freedom , and spending a ton of money that he could be investing for his future . Competive bodybuilding should be reserved for the absoulute genetic elite . The rest of us should use it for health , longevity , and to build our own self esteem . [ try to create a pleasing healthy look for ones own genetic structure ] I am not judging ,just stating my opinion .Bodybuilding is no longer beautiful to me anymore because somehow people got self esteam from being big , strong , and bloated ......or by winning some mid level show by taking a ton of gear ........[ shoot, I know guys spending 1000s to win local shows ] I have seen many lives destroyed by this delussional bodybuilding lifestyle [ including my own at one time ] I am not against the intelligent safe use of gear by people over 25 and I think it can be helpful as well as healthful . But we as bodybuilders need to take a harsh look at ourselves . We killed the sport with our egos , hunger for attention , and unrealistic expectations . Bodybuilding can improve the quality of one's life , but it won't make your life better ........This goes out to the young bucks reading this ........ Diet first , progressive heavy training , rest , and gear last . Be honest with yourself , if you are missing some bodyparts or structure isn't near perfect don't waste your time competing . Just stay lean and be proud of what you have forever . If haven't used AAS , hold out until at least 25 ,and then keep things simple and low dosed ......There are no secrets ........Bodybuilding should be about looking as good as you can for as long as you live . Always trying to improve on what you have . Not competing with others .......So many guys look great in there teens and 20s to go to shit later on and die young ........How does that make sense ? Everyone can be great with in thier own realm , that is true challenge of what bodybuilding should be about .........Wake up .....I think Phil and DC will agree what I am saying from thier expirences .....health , longevity , and feeling good about how you look within your framework is what this should be about [ how many of you guys reading this like the way you look naked right now ? Honestly ......I rest my case ] Think guys .........lots of great people here , but open your eyes .....before reality bites you in the ass !!!

 

[Skip]

If you want to lower aldosterone levels, why not just take spiralactone?

That is why someone using Cytadren needs to know that it's function is not just to lower cortisol levels. If using cytadren, it it usually unnecessary to use aldactone at the same time. I would never recommend the use of cytadren for simply lowering aldosterone levels.

Skip

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I like learning all tactics to help me better understand the process. I am still learning. After i learn the tactic, i learn to understand WHY it is done that way, what the reasoning is, so i can better understand the process. I am not looking for any secret drug or a special protocol which will transform me into a national competitor. I do this for fun, not a career opportunity(there is no money in this sport), i dont abuse drugs (i use pretty low doses), i get my blood tested regularly to insure im healthy, i take lots of time off the drugs (i dont even like taking them honestly), but i do it because im competitive. If i dont have something in my life to directly compete in, i feel kinda.... empty. Its my hobby and my choice, i love lifting, and i find it gives me better drive when i have a competition to shoot for and i get much better results. I will never put my health on the line to try to win a show. Whatever i use, i feel confident iv done my research and can use very safely, and i dont use a lot of anything so i know i wont overdo it. Now as far as my potential, i will never tell myself "i cant" cause as soon as u do, u already lost. I will strive to be the best i can be always, i dont half ass nothin, and i never will. I thank you for some of the kind words in your post, but i hope i dont come off as that way, becuase most of it is not how i am.

 

[Vander_V]

DRS ARE BEST

Not all Drs are assholes and dont have time to talk , i understand most Drs are busy and are against steroid use but there are many who arent , here in my town i know a couple well respected Drs whon will take the time to help i just set up a regular appointment to get my bloodwork done and then chat , it may be somewhat hard to find a Dr like this but its worth every penny once you have , best advice i can give is do NOT rely on what you read on a computer screen go get an opinion from somebody who has spent there entire life in the feild and has the proper documantation to show for , does anyone realize what it takes to be a solid reputable MD , lets just say alot.

 

[Skip]

V: Did you check with your doctor before your prep and ask him his opinions on what you planned to take and his opinions on dosing? I would assume that you at least used a diuretic of some sort, maybe some clen and/or t3. What were his opinions on the use of these compounds?

Skip

 

[Vander_V]

V: Did you check with your doctor before your prep and ask him his opinions on what you planned to take and his opinions on dosing? I would assume that you at least used a diuretic of some sort, maybe some clen and/or t3. What were his opinions on the use of these compounds?

Skip

Of course i checked with him and we went over everything in detail several times infact he was annoyed with all of my questioning him , yes i know hes a Dr and a great one to speak but it was contest time and my mind was all over the place so i heventually had to write it all down.

Now if your asking about anything else then drugs , well no i didnt ask him about that.

 

[Vander_V]

Thanks Phil, for the words of respect ,the feeling is mutual for sure . Maybe we are wiser because we learned some hard lessons from our involvement with AAS and we both have been pro in our respective sports .I just can't believe how complex all young kids what to make bodybuilding . Always thinking there are secrets and hidden processes . TP4U is a great example of this . He is great kid , cool as hell , and very knowlegable . But he doesn't get it . He is all over the place searching for the trueth that will make him great . He admits to using gear publically and gives advice to others on use . [ both things are illegal ] He thinks knowing every little water manipulation tactic is somehow important , when the bottom line is that competitive bodybuilding is about genetics period .........The overall USA champ this year was on 900 total mgs a week at 8 weeks out and the 4th place heavy was on 700 mgs a week and some gh [and lets just say this isn't heresay .]When you were winning shows ,I bet you weren't using anti -e's and crazy carb loading and water methods . [ and I know you weren't a big gear user ] It sad when I see kids using before 25 [ I was 23 ] because it alters your natural hormone output forever and mentally you are not giving yourself a chance to get better without them .[ setting yourself for early failure ] I love TP4U's drive , thirst , and ambition to be the best he can be . But I think he jumped the gun and is setting himself up to fail . Think about it .....can he be a competive national level guy in the future ? Probally ......but does he have pro genetics ? I think he will even say no way on that .......So think about it .....what is he doing by competing in bodybuilding ? Risking his health , his freedom , and spending a ton of money that he could be investing for his future . Competive bodybuilding should be reserved for the absoulute genetic elite . The rest of us should use it for health , longevity , and to build our own self esteem . [ try to create a pleasing healthy look for ones own genetic structure ] I am not judging ,just stating my opinion .Bodybuilding is no longer beautiful to me anymore because somehow people got self esteam from being big , strong , and bloated ......or by winning some mid level show by taking a ton of gear ........[ shoot, I know guys spending 1000s to win local shows ] I have seen many lives destroyed by this delussional bodybuilding lifestyle [ including my own at one time ] I am not against the intelligent safe use of gear by people over 25 and I think it can be helpful as well as healthful . But we as bodybuilders need to take a harsh look at ourselves . We killed the sport with our egos , hunger for attention , and unrealistic expectations . Bodybuilding can improve the quality of one's life , but it won't make your life better ........This goes out to the young bucks reading this ........ Diet first , progressive heavy training , rest , and gear last . Be honest with yourself , if you are missing some bodyparts or structure isn't near perfect don't waste your time competing . Just stay lean and be proud of what you have forever . If haven't used AAS , hold out until at least 25 ,and then keep things simple and low dosed ......There are no secrets ........Bodybuilding should be about looking as good as you can for as long as you live . Always trying to improve on what you have . Not competing with others .......So many guys look great in there teens and 20s to go to shit later on and die young ........How does that make sense ? Everyone can be great with in thier own realm , that is true challenge of what bodybuilding should be about .........Wake up .....I think Phil and DC will agree what I am saying from thier expirences .....health , longevity , and feeling good about how you look within your framework is what this should be about [ how many of you guys reading this like the way you look naked right now ? Honestly ......I rest my case ] Think guys .........lots of great people here , but open your eyes .....before reality bites you in the ass !!!

Very solid post bro , i must also agree with this , BB isnt for everyone , take for example basketball- one must posses certain born genetic traits to become great , all the teaching , court time cool pair of shoes and gear isnt gonna get you very far without God given talent and genes , BB fisrt of all is Unhealthy and i agree with u IABAD , for those who dump huge amounts into there system for 10 minutes of glory onstage are not BBs they are the wannabes and at a very young age cant seem to grasp the true meaning of BB , some BB for fun others for a goal or victory but what happens when these are NOT able to be obtained then what is BB for??? beleive me ive asked myself this question and im affraid my time is running out as well, i may have a few more good years left and im gonna load up and hit it hard with the gear butbelive me i know one thing,, i know when its time to move on with whats really impoertant in this life .

My advice to Tp4U is keep BB have fun with it but also realize its a sport and a sport that isnt like any of the rest , when its time to quit and walk you better reconize or your just another chemical mess that won a local show and had half ass genetics to boot.

 

[Steak Helmet]

Thanks Phil, for the words of respect ,the feeling is mutual for sure . Maybe we are wiser because we learned some hard lessons from our involvement with AAS and we both have been pro in our respective sports .I just can't believe how complex all young kids what to make bodybuilding . Always thinking there are secrets and hidden processes . TP4U is a great example of this . He is great kid , cool as hell , and very knowlegable . But he doesn't get it . He is all over the place searching for the trueth that will make him great . He admits to using gear publically and gives advice to others on use . [ both things are illegal ] He thinks knowing every little water manipulation tactic is somehow important , when the bottom line is that competitive bodybuilding is about genetics period .........The overall USA champ this year was on 900 total mgs a week at 8 weeks out and the 4th place heavy was on 700 mgs a week and some gh [and lets just say this isn't heresay .]When you were winning shows ,I bet you weren't using anti -e's and crazy carb loading and water methods . [ and I know you weren't a big gear user ] It sad when I see kids using before 25 [ I was 23 ] because it alters your natural hormone output forever and mentally you are not giving yourself a chance to get better without them .[ setting yourself for early failure ] I love TP4U's drive , thirst , and ambition to be the best he can be . But I think he jumped the gun and is setting himself up to fail . Think about it .....can he be a competive national level guy in the future ? Probally ......but does he have pro genetics ? I think he will even say no way on that .......So think about it .....what is he doing by competing in bodybuilding ? Risking his health , his freedom , and spending a ton of money that he could be investing for his future . Competive bodybuilding should be reserved for the absoulute genetic elite . The rest of us should use it for health , longevity , and to build our own self esteem . [ try to create a pleasing healthy look for ones own genetic structure ] I am not judging ,just stating my opinion .Bodybuilding is no longer beautiful to me anymore because somehow people got self esteam from being big , strong , and bloated ......or by winning some mid level show by taking a ton of gear ........[ shoot, I know guys spending 1000s to win local shows ] I have seen many lives destroyed by this delussional bodybuilding lifestyle [ including my own at one time ] I am not against the intelligent safe use of gear by people over 25 and I think it can be helpful as well as healthful . But we as bodybuilders need to take a harsh look at ourselves . We killed the sport with our egos , hunger for attention , and unrealistic expectations . Bodybuilding can improve the quality of one's life , but it won't make your life better ........This goes out to the young bucks reading this ........ Diet first , progressive heavy training , rest , and gear last . Be honest with yourself , if you are missing some bodyparts or structure isn't near perfect don't waste your time competing . Just stay lean and be proud of what you have forever . If haven't used AAS , hold out until at least 25 ,and then keep things simple and low dosed ......There are no secrets ........Bodybuilding should be about looking as good as you can for as long as you live . Always trying to improve on what you have . Not competing with others .......So many guys look great in there teens and 20s to go to shit later on and die young ........How does that make sense ? Everyone can be great with in thier own realm , that is true challenge of what bodybuilding should be about .........Wake up .....I think Phil and DC will agree what I am saying from thier expirences .....health , longevity , and feeling good about how you look within your framework is what this should be about [ how many of you guys reading this like the way you look naked right now ? Honestly ......I rest my case ] Think guys .........lots of great people here , but open your eyes .....before reality bites you in the ass !!!

I have always liked IABADMAN'S posts...they bring reality to your doorstep in a respectful and professional way. I have chatted with him outside the boards and respect everything he says and what he stands for...so when he makes a post like this, it makes me think.

Everyone has their reasoning behind what they do and why they do it I do have to say I think i look like shit naked never satisfied.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

IABADMAN

What IABADMAN wrote on here should be posted on everyones wall. TPFU, everyone needs a hobby. I love bodybuilding, as does everyone else on here. I think it is EXTREMELY healthy and a great outlet for stress. It builds self etseem and allows me to feel like I accomplished something every day I leave the gym. I think everyone should do it. Drug use is an accepted part of this sport, thats obvious. Everyone has their vices, but I personally think drug use should be legalized. We are all grown up, well, most of us are. Let us decide what we want to take. Dont lock us up because we want to be a little bigger. Unfortunately, steroids are illegal. ILLEGAL. You will go to prison. You will be on probation/parole when you get out. You will pay fines. You can lose your family. You will lose your job. You family members may die when you are in prison and you cant go to the funeral. You will eat 2 slices of baloney per day with 2 pieces of bread and 1 lime. Yes, 1 lime. You will sleep in a tent when it is 120 degrees in the summer and 38 degrees in the winter with 1 blanket on a metal cot.You will bust your ass in there, working in the kitchen or some other physical labor. You will have to fight in there at some point. You will come out having to pay at least 35000 in restitution and fines and now have a felony on your record so it might be tough finding a job. Believe me, it is not worth posting your picture on here along with your cycles. Heck, some guys post their pic, their cycles, where they live, etc.......then 3 weeks later tell us all that they got a seizure leter and should they "clean house". Take wisdom from some vets on here, use their knowledge. They have forged an easier path for you to help you learn from their mistakes. Now, thats all I have time for, my training partner is thinking I am whacked typing on this computer before our workout.

 

[zephyr22]

Phil....

I am a practioner myself. I will tell you half the drugs I prescribe I only know what they do clinacally(I do basic prescribing of medications). Now I know where you knowledge of the body system comes from Phil. I have great respect for your father. I also have great respect for you. You are the one preaching the diet and training etc... we all know what it takes to be a monster but are you willing to pay the piper when the time comes. Trust me when your in that hospital bed with multiple organ failure you will realize what was really important in life like family, friends, vacations etc.... I have no problems with people cycleing on steroids etc... Just know they are prices to pay in life. Some how Im not ready to give up my freedom or my physical health for it. I feel the same way on competing. I love cometing but heck the state level is becoming a drugfest and I dont think I would fare well. I have seen people shooting slin in the pumpup rooms backstage etc...I mean come on people is it worth a 10-20 plastic trophy and set of dirty feet from the floors of the backstage areas. Im puting no one down for competing it just seems crazy to spend 5,000.00 for a show and you get a 10-20 dollar trophy. I know the feeling of being a champion as I was a champion teenage powerlifter for many years. I know the love of the challenge. I personally always have to keep myself in check to try and be healthy, a good father, a good husband. Just my 2 cents.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I appreciate that!

I am a practioner myself. I will tell you half the drugs I prescribe I only know what they do clinacally(I do basic prescribing of medications). Now I know where you knowledge of the body system comes from Phil. I have great respect for your father. I also have great respect for you. You are the one preaching the diet and training etc... we all know what it takes to be a monster but are you willing to pay the piper when the time comes. Trust me when your in that hospital bed with multiple organ failure you will realize what was really important in life like family, friends, vacations etc.... I have no problems with people cycleing on steroids etc... Just know they are prices to pay in life. Some how Im not ready to give up my freedom or my physical health for it. I feel the same way on competing. I love cometing but heck the state level is becoming a drugfest and I dont think I would fare well. I have seen people shooting slin in the pumpup rooms backstage etc...I mean come on people is it worth a 10-20 plastic trophy and set of dirty feet from the floors of the backstage areas. Im puting no one down for competing it just seems crazy to spend 5,000.00 for a show and you get a 10-20 dollar trophy. I know the feeling of being a champion as I was a champion teenage powerlifter for many years. I know the love of the challenge. I personally always have to keep myself in check to try and be healthy, a good father, a good husband. Just my 2 cents.

But I am sure you feel the same way, what we know is piddly! It is the tip of the iceburg. There are so many factors involveds in this sport, it wouold take 2 lifetimes to figure probably 1/2 of it.

 

[biochemgen]

Lucky

Phil,
As you know I have been involved in Bodydbuilding for a long time. You know my history and my medical background. This sport is all about researching your sport and experimenting on yourself on what works and what doesn't.
Find a Doctor who knows you and is willing to help out.
Tell him everything and let him know you rather have his supervision and your intention is to do it legally and clean. You will be surprised as how many will accept your offer. Vander has it down.
As for doctors, unfortunately most I would never trust with my own life and their knowledge is fundamentally flawed at best and I am certainly qualified to judge since I work with them on a daily basis.

 

[xcelbeyond]

The same people on here giving dosage advice are on here the next week looking for answers for their cycles. What Einsteins!! You ask these people questions??This site should be about training and diet advice. So many people are concerned about steroids that it is getting sad. Even some Mods on her get upset when someone blames steroids for health problems in our sport. WAKE UP. This is why I have so much respect for Skip, Dante, IABADMAN. These guys dont come on here preaching drugs, just hard work and diet manipulation. I dont mean to offend anyone here, I also dont want to be a hypocrite, but we need to keep it real. Lets put diet and training first, leave the drug talk to PMs.

I guess I need to throw my $0.02 into the pot

Sounds like many agree with my signature

I probably provide more answers to questions in order to help direct people in a sensible direction. If we don't provide the best info (on AAS or anything else), they're just gonna go elsewhere and get "shit" info. I'm not saying we're the only reputable web site out there. I've seen way too much bogus info from way too many sites.

With the lastest Steroid Mania, be careful when approaching doctors. This stuff is illegal and while it "may contribute" or exagerate pre-existing conditions, it is getting blamed for everything - this really gets the "insurance" industry's attention. Your doc may put a "black mark" on your record (a steroid user) so when you develop a health complication (like heart disease, which is killing millions of American, that ALL MUST BE past steroid users ) your insurance company now has a reason to not pay those bills as your illegal use caused this to happen .

Here's the "thing" that I heard at my first bodybuilding contest/seminar that got me interested and hooked into bodybuilding. If a bodybuilder were to tell you his "secrets," it would not be his drug/supplementation protocal, or workout program, it would be "how he eats!"

I knew that I could not be the strongest person for my size and I would workout as MUCH as it took (actually really overtrained). Drugs didn't really excite me at the time (and it wasn't a felony at this time). But I could figure out what, how much, and when to eat - that I HAVE CONTROL OVER.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Good point!

I guess I need to throw my $0.02 into the pot

Sounds like many agree with my signature

I probably provide more answers to questions in order to help direct people in a sensible direction. If we don't provide the best info (on AAS or anything else), they're just gonna go elsewhere and get "shit" info. I'm not saying we're the only reputable web site out there. I've seen way too much bogus info from way too many sites.

With the lastest Steroid Mania, be careful when approaching doctors. This stuff is illegal and while it "may contribute" or exagerate pre-existing conditions, it is getting blamed for everything - this really gets the "insurance" industry's attention. Your doc may put a "black mark" on your record (a steroid user) so when you develop a health complication (like heart disease, which is killing millions of American, that ALL MUST BE past steroid users ) your insurance company now has a reason to not pay those bills as your illegal use caused this to happen .

Here's the "thing" that I heard at my first bodybuilding contest/seminar that got me interested and hooked into bodybuilding. If a bodybuilder were to tell you his "secrets," it would not be his drug/supplementation protocal, or workout program, it would be "how he eats!"

I knew that I could not be the strongest person for my size and I would workout as MUCH as it took (actually really overtrained). Drugs didn't really excite me at the time (and it wasn't a felony at this time). But I could figure out what, how much, and when to eat - that I HAVE CONTROL OVER.

Good point on BOTH!