HGH and Insulin Resistance

[derzwerg]

Good morning, ProM, I've read plenty about gh and insulin resistance and ways to manage glucose but was looking for advice for my particular situation.

When not running gh my fasted glucose is around 90. Within a week of adding gh my fasted glucose will be well over 100. The highest I've let it go is like 150 and then I dropped the gh until it returned to normal.

I've added the gh back in at 4iu and have been using 1 gram metformin per day and supplementing with r-ala but my fasted glucose still goes way high.

I ran igf1-lr3 for 8 weeks at 100mcg and that kept my glucose in the 90's but people always recommend cycling so I've come off. Right now I'm using 15 units lantus before bed and my fasted glucose stays just over 100.

So my question is, in my situation, should I continue with the lantus? Only run gh with lr3? Or perhaps the growth isn't worth it if my glucose can't be managed?

Thanks in advance.


Increasing the metformin or reducing the gh to 2 units doesn't seem to help much and higher metformin wrecks my appetite.

 

[bbxtreme]

Good morning, ProM, I've read plenty about gh and insulin resistance and ways to manage glucose but was looking for advice for my particular situation.

When not running gh my fasted glucose is around 90. Within a week of adding gh my fasted glucose will be well over 100. The highest I've let it go is like 150 and then I dropped the gh until it returned to normal.

I've added the gh back in at 4iu and have been using 1 gram metformin per day and supplementing with r-ala but my fasted glucose still goes way high.

I ran igf1-lr3 for 8 weeks at 100mcg and that kept my glucose in the 90's but people always recommend cycling so I've come off. Right now I'm using 15 units lantus before bed and my fasted glucose stays just over 100.

So my question is, in my situation, should I continue with the lantus? Only run gh with lr3? Or perhaps the growth isn't worth it if my glucose can't be managed?

Thanks in advance.


Increasing the metformin or reducing the gh to 2 units doesn't seem to help much and higher metformin wrecks my appetite.

Welcome to PM. What are your stats, training history, and how does your diet look?

Why lantus before bed/how long, and any quick acting insulin?

Could be many reasons you’re becoming insulin resistant. Usually will always come back to the diet and duration of habits unless you’re a type 1 diabetic.

 

[KingOfSushi]

The highest I've let it go is like 150 and then I dropped the gh until it returned to normal.

150? In the morning fasted?

Are you doing any cardio? What’s body fat?

 

[derzwerg]

Thanks for the replies, sorry for the incoming novel lol but here's where I'm at.

I am 5'8" and will be 35 years old next month and have been training off and on since I was a teenager. For the past few years I've been pretty locked in but a good bit of that time was spent cutting after many years not training and eating terribly.
I dropped from 210ish down to 180, did a small surplus bulk up to 190 and then cut down to 160.

I had my test levels checked after the short bulk and they came back at 340 and decided to hop on a cruise of 250mg test c towards the end of the cut.

I started my first blast the first week of August and plan to push it through December. I tapered test up to 750mg and left it there until this past week. No ai and I haven't noticed any estrogen related sides, blood pressure normal but I am using 80mg telmisartan. I just added in 300 primo and 100 deca... probably a bit excessive for a first cycle lol but that's where I'm at.

Body fat is kinda hard to gauge, the gh makes me hold a lot of water. I was worried I was getting too fat too fast but when I last dropped it my look changed very quickly and I lost like 10 pounds over two weeks. But my current weight is 190 and I would guess like 15% maybe? A bit higher than I'd like for sure but I would rather focus on putting on size than cutting further...

Lantus is in only to keep the fasted glucose down. I've been using 3 units humalog pre and 8 units post, just based on 30-40g carbs intra and 80-90 post.

Diet is pretty clean. Currently doing around 3200 cals on off days, 3500 if training. At least 300g protein, carbs and fats vary. High carb, minimal fat on training days and a more balanced diet on off days. Usually something like a shake for breakfast, four meals of chicken and rice and then some rice cakes and almond butter before bed. Post workout cereal lol. Usually a cheat every Saturday.


Yes, it went up to 150 fasted. Currently like 105 fasted with 15 units lantus. Always under 120 two hours after a meal.

No cardio, I really need to make time for it. I have a three year old and five month and it's hard to balance this hobby with family time. I train at 5am on weekdays and usually only get like 5-6 hours sleep which kills me but I try to save evenings for the family.

 

[Reno911]

I would say that 3500 on TD and 3200 on off days is way too much for someone 190lbs with "15%" body fat. Plus you have a cheat every Sunday? Is this 1 meal or 2, or the whole day? Seems as though your weekly calories are too high for your muscle mass hence the shitty insulin sensitivity.

If you really want to fix yourself I'd use a PSMF style diet for 4 weeks and possible add 200mg of DNP in daily.

Since you don't do cardio, go push your kids in the stroller every night for 30 min. or so. You need some sort of cardio to get some fat off and get your metabolism straightened out.

 

[bbxtreme]

Without pictures this is hard to gauge, but I agree with a PSMF, come off the insulin, suck it up and do cardio, take GDA’s, SBO probiotics and reset your insulin sensitivity.

My guess is that you jumped into using insulin way too quickly to try and grow your physique. Build your foundation with diet, training, recovery, gear, HGH and insulin last. Maximize each one before adding or moving to the other. Just my .02.

 

[derzwerg]

That's a good idea for the cardio, I've got a track right across the street. Going around a bit with the baby in a carrier would probably have me huffing lol

I was planning a dnp mini cut at some point but had wanted to keep pushing for size. I don't mind being a bit soft but I also understand it may be a detriment to putting on lean tissue.

One thing to note is I started gh when I was still cutting and was having less than 100g carbs on off days and like 200 on training days but even on low carb fasted glucose was still high.

Regarding my calories, I've been pretty torn on what a good amount would be. I started at 2800/3000 and have kept increasing over time. I hear many preach a very small surplus but there seems to be just as many people in the eat big to get big camp.

The cheats are one meal a week, almost always the last meal to try and minimize the damage. In the beginning of the bulk they could be a bit over the top but my appetite and cravings have calmed down a lot and the meals have been a bit more reasonable. Usually either pizza or Chinese with some ice cream

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Why not just stop taking gh……

 

[bbxtreme]

Why not just stop taking gh……

… that’s too easy. We all have to take the hard path in life at least once. LOL

 

[derzwerg]

Why not just stop taking gh……

That was an option as well. In the original post I questioned whether the gh was even worth it.

Perhaps I'll try it again when I'm leaner or only use it with lr3. I have a dozen kits so hopefully they get used lol

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I mean it’s become a pain in the ass with multiple facets for 2-4iu

Personally I wouldn’t bother

 

[derzwerg]

I mean it’s become a pain in the ass with multiple facets for 2-4iu

Personally I wouldn’t bother

Kinda where I was leaning. I guess the original post could be summed up as "is gh worth it if it is requiring lantus?"

I've heard John Jewett mention having guys use a small amount of lantus during a growth phase but I'm under the impression these guys are eating way more carbs than I am lol probably far more advanced as well

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Kinda where I was leaning. I guess the original post could be summed up as "is gh worth it if it is requiring lantus?"

I've heard John Jewett mention having guys use a small amount of lantus during a growth phase but I'm under the impression these guys are eating way more carbs than I am lol probably far more advanced as well

Well there’s a reason your bg is getting so elevated. I wouldn’t mask that w insulin. Root cause needs to be identified and eliminated. After that, do whatever the hell you like.

 

[derzwerg]

Gotcha, thanks man

 

[Black Beard]

Good morning, ProM, I've read plenty about gh and insulin resistance and ways to manage glucose but was looking for advice for my particular situation.

When not running gh my fasted glucose is around 90. Within a week of adding gh my fasted glucose will be well over 100. The highest I've let it go is like 150 and then I dropped the gh until it returned to normal.

I've added the gh back in at 4iu and have been using 1 gram metformin per day and supplementing with r-ala but my fasted glucose still goes way high.

I ran igf1-lr3 for 8 weeks at 100mcg and that kept my glucose in the 90's but people always recommend cycling so I've come off. Right now I'm using 15 units lantus before bed and my fasted glucose stays just over 100.

So my question is, in my situation, should I continue with the lantus? Only run gh with lr3? Or perhaps the growth isn't worth it if my glucose can't be managed?

Thanks in advance.


Increasing the metformin or reducing the gh to 2 units doesn't seem to help much and higher metformin wrecks my appetite.

Someone else asked, are you doing regular cardio? This has a very good effect increasing insulin sensitivity.


The elevated fasted glucose on GH at lower doses like 4 IU is often temporary in healthy people. Often times after a month or so, your fasted BG will be back to normal (although your body will be producing a lot of extra insulin to keep it there, so you are still insulin resistant).


In a case like yours, i would probably wait a month and re-test the fasted glucose and DO CARDIO before tapping into insulin (most people do NOT need insulin to achieve their goals, period). This is the # 1 supplement for being healthy and it will improve your workouts and intra-set recovery having a better heart and circulation to the muscles to bring oxygen and nutrients /carry away lactic acid and metabolites.

 

[derzwerg]

No cardio at the moment, I will start making time for it though. I've been meaning to, it's something I absolutely need. My endurance is terrible and can be a bit limiting for squats. I stay pretty active, usually getting like 6-7k steps in just at work but definitely not the same as actually getting heart rate up.

I dropped the lantus and gh and fasted glucose was back under 100 the next day so I'll give it some time and start lower and see what happens.

I did try and ride out the higher glucose earlier this year and it didn't go very well. The highest I actually saw fasted was like 150 and like a week later I noticed some gyno, which can apparently also be caused by insulin resistance. I had a mammogram and sonogram done to confirm. At that time I was only on gh, no test or anything.

 

[Black Beard]

No cardio at the moment, I will start making time for it though. I've been meaning to, it's something I absolutely need. My endurance is terrible and can be a bit limiting for squats. I stay pretty active, usually getting like 6-7k steps in just at work but definitely not the same as actually getting heart rate up.

I dropped the lantus and gh and fasted glucose was back under 100 the next day so I'll give it some time and start lower and see what happens.

I did try and ride out the higher glucose earlier this year and it didn't go very well. The highest I actually saw fasted was like 150 and like a week later I noticed some gyno, which can apparently also be caused by insulin resistance. I had a mammogram and sonogram done to confirm. At that time I was only on gh, no test or anything.

Cardio is extremely important for insulin sensitivity, as is being very lean. The more sedentary / less cardio and the more body fat you carry, the more insulin resistant your body will be.


Lifting weights + cardio have an additive effect on insulin sensitivity. Your muscle cells become more efficient at utilizing and storing glucose and responding to your endogenous insulin production. High glucose is literally poison to your body. Glucose is the # 1 fuel for muscle, brain and cells but too much will literally kill your cells and poison your body.


Get that cardio in, it's one of the single most important things you can do for your health and it will have bonuses for your physique, aesthetics and well-being.


Make it sustainable, cardio can be boring as hell, so listen to music, watch TV or finding something fun like MMA/boxing, etc.