High test vs Low Test with other anabolics/androgens?

[Kaladryn]

Kaladryn, you disagree with almost "everything" Dr.G says? That's pretty harsh considering his credentials, but to each his own...

I've been cruising on test e/tren e at 100/100mg week for the last 4 weeks and have had nothing but good results. Sides are near non-existent and I've actually gained mass. I've also increased my intensity in the gym, so that obviously may be part of it, but needless to say I've been very happy with this protocol.

Much respect,

It's a good low dose cycle. The only problem I see is when cruising and blasting. Are you going to use tren in your blasts? What about orals? Would you be willing to be on tren and/or orals 365 days per year? If so, then go for it, don't even bother with low dose though. My question would be, when will your lipids recover? When when your liver be stress free and allowed to repair? Personally If I was going to blast, I would use high doses of harsher things than test for a period of time and then go off those things so recovery can take, otherwise why call it cruising? Why not just call it not going off? Lets say you NEED to cruise on more than TRT to maintain muscle mass, at least make it just test to give the body a break.

That's just my opinion, because otherwise what is the point of the "cruise?" I'm not preaching, I'm just trying to be logical, people can do what they wish.

 

[ryanbCXG]

It's a good low dose cycle. The only problem I see is when cruising and blasting. Are you going to use tren in your blasts? What about orals? Would you be willing to be on tren and/or orals 365 days per year? If so, then go for it, don't even bother with low dose though. My question would be, when will your lipids recover? When when your liver be stress free and allowed to repair? Personally If I was going to blast, I would use high doses of harsher things than test for a period of time and then go off those things so recovery can take, otherwise why call it cruising? Why not just call it not going off? Lets say you NEED to cruise on more than TRT to maintain muscle mass, at least make it just test to give the body a break.

That's just my opinion, because otherwise what is the point of the "cruise?" I'm not preaching, I'm just trying to be logical, people can do what they wish.

So it would be your opinion that the study(s) on tren for TRT would be false? And that dr. G's assertion that tren at 100/week does not adversely affect lipids and liver values, is wrong? If could you share why?

 

[DK0223]

so both health/effects wise you feel adex is the better option than aromasin? it seems asin gets all the love as the easiest on lipids and all, curious to hear your thoughts

Bumpin this. Thanks kal

 

[Sqwattz]

Adex has been shown to reduce igf. But I think you are thinking serms. Like nolva. Estrogen is needed for the liver to make igf. Since serms are not real estrogen they can't do the job.

Gotcha. Still think I'm gonna try the low test approach so I can avoid using AI's. I've tried all of them with various dosing protocols and no matter what I always feel lethargic when I use them.

 

[Fitness 500]

Low test high tren without a doubt... anyone who says otherwise should try it first or needs to stfu if never tried it.

almost zero sides being on 100 test 600 tren... felt good, libido so high, I dont suggest doing this cyclr unless u have a sex partner

I for one have tried it twice and I will say it's not worth it. And another thing look at you post. All you say is that you felt good and had high libido. You didn't say anything about your gains. If you were going to recommend this to anyone don't you think someone would want to know your gains first?

If anyone is trying to bulk on Tren and they use low Test they will NOT be happy with their results. Low Test high Tren does give you a better sense of well being but the results you will get would be perfect just in time for the summer at the beach.

I say run High Test AND High Tren and you will love the results. Yeah the sides sick but sick it up it's worth it.

 

[raw33man]

I for one have tried it twice and I will say it's not worth it. And another thing look at you post. All you say is that you felt good and had high libido. You didn't say anything about your gains. If you were going to recommend this to anyone don't you think someone would want to know your gains first?

If anyone is trying to bulk on Tren and they use low Test they will NOT be happy with their results. Low Test high Tren does give you a better sense of well being but the results you will get would be perfect just in time for the summer at the beach.

I say run High Test AND High Tren and you will love the results. Yeah the sides sick but sick it up it's worth it.

the thing is, I don't believe in bulking... It's fat and water, I don't know I just don't. Plus I don't want to look like shit, I'm not a competitor

My gains were good ! All lean muscle, and again it all depends on the diet. Gained about 10 solid pounds after being off of juice for 4 months ( I was on TRT 150mg for 4 months)

 

[Fitness 500]

the thing is, I don't believe in bulking... It's fat and water, I don't know I just don't. Plus I don't want to look like shit, I'm not a competitor

My gains were good ! All lean muscle, and again it all depends on the diet. Gained about 10 solid pounds after being off of juice for 4 months ( I was on TRT 150mg for 4 months)

Have you tried running high Test AND high Tren with an AI?

The AI will keep the water off and the Tren will keep the fat off.

 

[pieguy]

I don't like low test high tren during mass gain phases either. Feels like the size gains just aren't there and I don't have horrible tren sides to begin with anyway. If you have tren sides that are severe, you probably just shouldn't use tren at all unless you're precontest.

 

[BigDM]

It's a good low dose cycle. The only problem I see is when cruising and blasting. Are you going to use tren in your blasts? What about orals? Would you be willing to be on tren and/or orals 365 days per year? If so, then go for it, don't even bother with low dose though. My question would be, when will your lipids recover? When when your liver be stress free and allowed to repair? Personally If I was going to blast, I would use high doses of harsher things than test for a period of time and then go off those things so recovery can take, otherwise why call it cruising? Why not just call it not going off? Lets say you NEED to cruise on more than TRT to maintain muscle mass, at least make it just test to give the body a break.

That's just my opinion, because otherwise what is the point of the "cruise?" I'm not preaching, I'm just trying to be logical, people can do what they wish.

Kaladryn - I can see your point, but here's my situation. I'm going to be "cruising" on this low dose test/tren mix for 4-5 more weeks and I'm not taking any orals, so I'm not putting any major stress on my liver during this time frame.

My next cycle will be slin and low dose test/deca and dbol (4wks on/off, etc). I'm only going to be taking the slin at 4-10 iu's pwo for 4-5 weeks, so I really don't see any major issues. I'll run out the test/deca/dbol combo for an additional 6-8 weeks and then start another cruise using test/tren.

Thanks for your feed-back bro and much respect.

 

[Kaladryn]

So it would be your opinion that the study(s) on tren for TRT would be false? And that dr. G's assertion that tren at 100/week does not adversely affect lipids and liver values, is wrong? If could you share why?

The idea that 100mg/week test plus 100mg/week of tren wont adversely affect lipids is ridiculous. Since we know that 200mg of test is worse than 100mg test. So tren would have to be EASIER on lipids than test for that to be true. I guess it's subjective to what you consider the definition of "adversely."

 

[TheOtherOne55]

the thing is, I don't believe in bulking... It's fat and water, I don't know I just don't.

If your bulk consists of you getting fatter and holding water....you're doing it wrong.

 

[Designbuilt]

To be honest, I've gotten in my best shape with little or no test... I remember when I lived in Mexico back in 1997... I was shredded on Primo, halotestin, master and parabolan (very low doses of each) about 2 amps of each per week and I only did it for about a month, all human grade gear... but I was super lean... I think my waist was 27"

 

[Fitness 500]

To be honest, I've gotten in my best shape with little or no test... I remember when I lived in Mexico back in 1997... I was shredded on Primo, halotestin, master and parabolan (very low doses of each) about 2 amps of each per week and I only did it for about a month, all human grade gear... but I was super lean... I think my waist was 27"

27" ?? Damn it's been almost 15 years since I had a waist that small.

What was your weight and height?

 

[raw33man]

If your bulk consists of you getting fatter and holding water....you're doing it wrong.

Name a few pro that dont get fat and look like balloons when they bulk

 

[ryanbCXG]

The idea that 100mg/week test plus 100mg/week of tren wont adversely affect lipids is ridiculous. Since we know that 200mg of test is worse than 100mg test. So tren would have to be EASIER on lipids than test for that to be true. I guess it's subjective to what you consider the definition of "adversely."

Sounds like it is a try and see like everything else. You are just making assumption it will destroy lipids. For some maybe but others quite possibly it will be fine

 

[Kaladryn]

Sounds like it is a try and see like everything else. You are just making assumption it will destroy lipids. For some maybe but others quite possibly it will be fine

This is the broscience attitude. The fact is, at the molecular level, these simple hormones are having nearly the exact same effect on each individual, this is how molecular biology works.

Whether or not it shows up on bloodwork in a select few is moot. The effects of tren on lipids are well established.

Blasting and cruising is perhaps the most unhealthy thing that has come to bodybuilding and AAS use in general for ONE reason: people do stupid shit while they cruise. Doing stupid shit while you cruise=cycling year round. If you are comfortable with that, then go for it, but at least call what it is.

This whole 100test/100tren TRT thing amounts to nothing more than someone trying to move more tren, trust me.

 

[Designbuilt]

27" ?? Damn it's been almost 15 years since I had a waist that small.

What was your weight and height?

I was 23, 5'-11" at 190lbs (roughly) I went two weeks of eating only 1 can of water packed tuna 6 times per day and actually didn't train at all for those two weeks... I can't believe how dry I got... I don't think I have the ability to get it that small again...

 

[ryanbCXG]

This is the broscience attitude. The fact is, at the molecular level, these simple hormones are having nearly the exact same effect on each individual, this is how molecular biology works.

Whether or not it shows up on bloodwork in a select few is moot. The effects of tren on lipids are well established.

Blasting and cruising is perhaps the most unhealthy thing that has come to bodybuilding and AAS use in general for ONE reason: people do stupid shit while they cruise. Doing stupid shit while you cruise=cycling year round. If you are comfortable with that, then go for it, but at least call what it is.

This whole 100test/100tren TRT thing amounts to nothing more than someone trying to move more tren, trust me.

So the fact that everyone's genetics are slightly different and that the activation of genes creates even more difference even among twins that you see no way people can metabolize and react to AAS differently? I guess epigenetics and molecular biology are bro science. Also at what doses does tren affect lipids and how bad?

And I do agree people will always do stupid shit. But the 100/100 seems not as bad as you are trying to make it out to be. Though if you want to post some studies or some better support that 100 tren a week is going to be detrimental I am always happy to learn more

 

[Kaladryn]

So the fact that everyone's genetics are slightly different and that the activation of genes creates even more difference even among twins that you see no way people can metabolize and react to AAS differently? I guess epigenetics and molecular biology are bro science. Also at what doses does tren affect lipids and how bad?

And I do agree people will always do stupid shit. But the 100/100 seems not as bad as you are trying to make it out to be. Though if you want to post some studies or some better support that 100 tren a week is going to be detrimental I am always happy to learn more

genes change many things, but they don't change how a hormone as simple as testosterone interacts with nuclear receptors, and which receptors it interacts with, or which substrates it metabolizes into. Genes express differences on a more macro level.

A fruit fly shares over 50% of the same genes we have, a chimp shares 98%. Chimp endocrinology is nearly identical to human endocrinology, same with all the mammals for the most part.

So, your hypothesis is that in SOME people, cruising on 100mg of tren non stop has no negative effect because of their genetic makeup. You probably want to feel like you are one of these special people also, as this usually the method used to rationalize similar behavior.

Believe what you will, maybe there is magic.

 

[ryanbCXG]

genes change many things, but they don't change how a hormone as simple as testosterone interacts with nuclear receptors, and which receptors it interacts with, or which substrates it metabolizes into. Genes express differences on a more macro level.

A fruit fly shares over 50% of the same genes we have, a chimp shares 98%. Chimp endocrinology is nearly identical to human endocrinology, same with all the mammals for the most part.

So, your hypothesis is that in SOME people, cruising on 100mg of tren non stop has no negative effect because of their genetic makeup. You probably want to feel like you are one of these special people also, as this usually the method used to rationalize similar behavior.

Believe what you will, maybe there is magic.

First off I love when people make assumptions based on the Internet. I do not use tren as of now and am merely attempting to have a discussion. So assuming I am rationalizing just because I don't agree with you is funny

Yes genes can change how test reacts with the new lead receptor. How is a nuclear receptor coded? Genes. What can block the receptor sites that the nuclear receptor complex binds? Other proteins encoded by genes. And my comment was more to epigenetics which is the activation or deactivation of genes. So yes humans have almost the same genetic makeup (still slightly different) but which genes are on and off can vary quite a bit and can very much alter metabolism and reaction to pretty much everything. You also keep avoiding presenting information on trens detrimental side effects. We are starting to go in circles