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"Icarus" Netflix doping documentary

nothuman

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It just literally came out today but I think I'll watch it tomorrow.
 

mikennrg

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The thing that was unclear to me towards the end was why they needed to swap urine. Had testing advanced or did they just want athletes juiced to the gills? The part with the guy testing hgh, test, and epo was pretty amazing. A 100 watt increase out of a long time cyclist is a remarkable increase.
 

alfresco

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no spoilers

Excellent show. Watched it last night. Highly recommended.

I can understand why a country would sponsor such a thing,
but my question is why did Grigory Rodchenkov do it?
Qualifications? Patriotism? Personal interest? Other?

What I found interesting was the small, frequent doses
(which are talked about and shown) they took to get the
results they did.

mikennrg; my understanding why they swapped urine was to
get clean test results, so the athletes could compete while on
or maybe they did not want to risk the ‘clear’ time. (I think
the Russians had the best lab at the time.)
 

aphextwin

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I'm going to watch this tonight. I appreciate the recommendation.
 

mikennrg

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I can understand why a country would sponsor such a thing,
but my question is why did Grigory Rodchenkov do it?
Qualifications? Patriotism? Personal interest? Other?
It might have been out of fear. Look at what happened to some of those guys at the end.
 

totalrecomp

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WADA and IOC dog and pony show as usual. I did not have respect for either going in, still do not.
 

IsaacHaze1

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just confirms what we already knew. most of those athletes are doping. Olympics, nfl, etc. They just have people around smarter than them to help pass these tests.

as far as why they needed the urine, Russia wanted their athletes to compete while "on" for peak performance. So they had to switch samples since they were going to test positive. They had saved clean samples for each athlete.

btw, i did enjoy this. good watch.
 

nothuman

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Very interesting the mechanisms and length they went to dope. That Rodchenkov guy seemed really funny.

I've said this before but I think it's only a matter of time before WADA catches up and most sports will be clean. It will be a very sad day when that happens but I'm afraid it's inevitable. I already think it's less common than it used to be throughout the board.
 

bg091593

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Excellent show. Watched it last night. Highly recommended.

I can understand why a country would sponsor such a thing,
but my question is why did Grigory Rodchenkov do it?
Qualifications? Patriotism? Personal interest? Other?

Maybe he did it simply because he could? Interesting indeed.
 

sol6227

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I thought it was a really good documentary. The drug part was interesting but nothing we already didn't know. What blows my mind is how openly everyone knows Russia just has people eliminated that stand in there way. As funny as that Russian lab director was you could tell he was truly terrified of what they were going to do to him because they no longer needed him.
 

ALLEX

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What blows my mind is how openly everyone knows Russia just has people eliminated that stand in there way. As funny as that Russian lab director was you could tell he was truly terrified of what they were going to do to him because they no longer needed him.

Every government of the world kills whistle blowers and people who know too much and can't be controlled.

Snowden would be very much dead by now if he could be found by the CIA.
 

Reno911

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Also watched it. Very good. As mentioned, I also thought Grigory was a very likable fella.

My thoughts:

- Where there are competitive athletes and money, there will always be some sort of cheating. No arguing this point.

- Testing as come so far that the whole "system" of cheating as changed. I thought it was really cool in the late 90s/early 2000's with the undetectable gear. To me, that was a great way to beat the system but of course technology caught up to it. Now with the technology, the Russians had no other way then to "swap samples". Does anyone remember the early/mid 90's when all the female sprinters had the super long finger nails? Those were used to puncture a false bladder with clean urine placed inside the womens snatch when she went in for a test.

- Although Don Catlin has spent his career trying to catch guys, he's very likable as well and almost seems that he could have made the choice to become one of the bad guys (helping cheaters) but he stayed on the straight and narrow. He's definitely aged since Bigger Faster Stronger but then again he's 80 or so. There's a scene in BFS where he talks about going back with modern technology to test left over samples from the 84 LA Olympics and he decided not to continue testing the old samples because of all the positives that were showing with the current technology. IMO 84 and maybe 88 (until Ben Johnson) was the heyday of PED use in Olympics before the technology and negative media attention caught up.

- I find it 100% of a waste of tax payer dollars that the government is even involved in this shit. Why in the fuck would the US government care 2 shits what Grigory was doing in the Russian lab/program. Same bullshit as the waste of time and money looking into baseball. The US government has much much bigger issues to deal with and dollars to be spent elsewhere- education, infrastructure, etc, etc
 

nothuman

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I thought it was a really good documentary. The drug part was interesting but nothing we already didn't know. What blows my mind is how openly everyone knows Russia just has people eliminated that stand in there way. As funny as that Russian lab director was you could tell he was truly terrified of what they were going to do to him because they no longer needed him.

Yea that was very scary how the Russian government induced a heart attack somehow on that other scientist. The same thing happened to a bunch of holistic doctors over the past year that the news barely mentioned. Maybe they gave him some kind of poison that induces heart attacks? I'm not exactly sure the mechanism, but it's very scary the lengths they go to make things look like an accident.
 

zacharykane

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I was very impressed with this documentary, and also the complete change in gears it made halfway through going from showing how these tests are beat, to a full on spy/thriller that couldn't have been more dramatic if it were a scripted movie.

Besides being the main focus point of the movie story-wise, I also though the Russian scientist was very entertaining as a person and then his concerns for his life just pulled the view in even more.

Definitely recommend taking the time to watch this!
 

IsaacHaze1

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Yea that was very scary how the Russian government induced a heart attack somehow on that other scientist. The same thing happened to a bunch of holistic doctors over the past year that the news barely mentioned. Maybe they gave him some kind of poison that induces heart attacks? I'm not exactly sure the mechanism, but it's very scary the lengths they go to make things look like an accident.

I was under the impression they just deemed it as a "heart attack". Either way..you talk to much you are dead. Even though he is in witness protection, I am sure he constantly fears for his life.
 

nothuman

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I was under the impression they just deemed it as a "heart attack". Either way..you talk to much you are dead. Even though he is in witness protection, I am sure he constantly fears for his life.



Than could simply be the case. I've also heard something about there being a way to make a heart attack look like an accident.
 

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