igf-1 question 1

guns123 · Apr 27, 2008

can anyone comment on the following questions. i posted in the "my take on igf-1" thread but no one has answered

question 1.
-ok so it has been stated to pin igf immediately pwo, then have your pwo shake, but not before.
however, i have a shake during workout, aswell as one after.

considering i have a shake during workout which contains carbs, how do i implement this procedure effectivly?

-1st comment-
"I wouldnt have a shake with protein during your workout only PWO. During training you want your blood flow going to the muscles instead of to your stomach to digest the shake. A "shake" with carbs or aminos only would be different. Pinning immediately then have a shake about 5 min later is what I would recommend. "

-response by me-

but isnt the reason you want to avoid having a shake before pinning igf to avoid the insulin response which you get from the carbs?

although i have a shake like this all the time, i thought it would be a perticularly good idea to do during pct (which is hwen i am planning to take the igf) so that the insulin supresses the cortisol build up during my workout.

one other point, during pct i am planning on doing really low volume.this will mean 4 sets on arms a week .arms is the body part i am planning to pin (also shoulders (5-6) and quads(5-6)).will this low volume still be sufficient enough to be enough of a "trained muscle" so that pinning this area pwo will be locally affective with no spill?

thanks

Bobaslaw · Apr 27, 2008

guns123 said:
but isnt the reason you want to avoid having a shake before pinning igf to avoid the insulin response which you get from the carbs?

Not IMO. I have never heard this before. There is no reason to avoid an insulin response in this respect to pre IGF usage. What is more important is that you do use a PWO shake afterwards to avoid possible mild hypo and take advantage of IGF's nutrient shuttling properties. I'm not certain what your area of concern is here? Never heard anything like this even in the numerous threads with Grunt76 on different forums. The carbs you injest gradually over the course of a workout are not going to spike insulin like a bolus dose in a PWO shake anyhow. Not that it matters with regards to IGF. The PWO shake will spike your insulin which will work synergistically with the glucose/amino shuttling effects of IGF. Grunt said something on AM once, to the effect of slin being synergistic in combination with IGF as each will shuttle a slightly different nutrient/amino profile...

although i have a shake like this all the time, i thought it would be a perticularly good idea to do during pct (which is hwen i am planning to take the igf) so that the insulin supresses the cortisol build up during my workout.

I do that too, although I don't use enough carbs/aminos in my "during workout" shake to make that great of a difference over the length of my WO most likely... The glycemic load from a small spread out dose of carbs is not that huge at it's dose dependent.

one other point, during pct i am planning on doing really low volume.this will mean 4 sets on arms a week .arms is the body part i am planning to pin (also shoulders (5-6) and quads(5-6)).will this low volume still be sufficient enough to be enough of a "trained muscle" so that pinning this area pwo will be locally affective with no spill?

Low volume is good during PCT as long as intensity is 100%, that is key. I do low volume in PCT but keep the weights just as heavy as on cycle following the same routine, keeping the shorter duration as intense as possible.

Take Care.

guns123 · Apr 28, 2008

Bobaslaw said:
Not IMO. I have never heard this before. There is no reason to avoid an insulin response in this respect to pre IGF usage. What is more important is that you do use a PWO shake afterwards to avoid possible mild hypo and take advantage of IGF's nutrient shuttling properties. I'm not certain what your area of concern is here? Never heard anything like this even in the numerous threads with Grunt76 on different forums. The carbs you injest gradually over the course of a workout are not going to spike insulin like a bolus dose in a PWO shake anyhow. Not that it matters with regards to IGF. The PWO shake will spike your insulin which will work synergistically with the glucose/amino shuttling effects of IGF. Grunt said something on AM once, to the effect of slin being synergistic in combination with IGF as each will shuttle a slightly different nutrient/amino profile...

I do that too, although I don't use enough carbs/aminos in my "during workout" shake to make that great of a difference over the length of my WO most likely... The glycemic load from a small spread out dose of carbs is not that huge at it's dose dependent.

Low volume is good during PCT as long as intensity is 100%, that is key. I do low volume in PCT but keep the weights just as heavy as on cycle following the same routine, keeping the shorter duration as intense as possible.

Take Care.

thanks for taking the time to reply

i got this from grunts post in his thread-

"No, no, no. Take your postworkout drink IMMEDIATELY after shooting. 5 minutes max. As soon as you pin it, the IGF starts leeching sugar out of your bloodstream. You need to fill your bloodstream with sugars and aminos to take advantage of this, yet not do so early enough that you would trigger insulin."

i understand that high gi carbs will not trigger as great an insulin response if spread out as oppose to all at one time.saying that tho it is only spread out over 45 mins, 60g carb/40g protein/25g bcaa. half of that being chugged before the workout (which would triiger an insulin response) and then sipped til the end which i guess would keep that initial insulin rise elevated.

so even 3-4 sets tops, would be sufficient to "train the muscle" enough to allow for sufficient uptake of igf?basically i will only train to keep the muscle stimulated, obviously not to build.

Bobaslaw · Apr 28, 2008

guns123 said:
thanks for taking the time to reply

i got this from grunts post in his thread-

"No, no, no. Take your postworkout drink IMMEDIATELY after shooting. 5 minutes max. As soon as you pin it, the IGF starts leeching sugar out of your bloodstream. You need to fill your bloodstream with sugars and aminos to take advantage of this, yet not do so early enough that you would trigger insulin."

i understand that high gi carbs will not trigger as great an insulin response if spread out as oppose to all at one time.saying that tho it is only spread out over 45 mins, 60g carb/40g protein/25g bcaa. half of that being chugged before the workout (which would triiger an insulin response) and then sipped til the end which i guess would keep that initial insulin rise elevated.

So even 3-4 sets tops, would be sufficient to "train the muscle" enough to allow for sufficient uptake of igf?basically i will only train to keep the muscle stimulated, obviously not to build.

Exactly. The concern here is to make sure you get adequet Carbs with your IGF due too its similar but milder glucose/nutrient shuttling effect which can lead to a degree of Hypo. The importance is to take it within the same timeframe as your IGF, just like you would treat slin.
Taking Carbs before your IGF has no impact on this as long as you still have a PWO shake with your IGF-1. Now this scenario would be different if you decided to take 1 shake only, and just during your workout INSTEAD of PWO with your IGF-1. I think your confusion was related to this possible interpretation.

As far as sets, you could go with a couple more IMO . But if you stick to 3-4, definitely go to failure on each set to keep the intensity up.

guns123 · Apr 28, 2008

ok, it was just the"not so early that you trigger insulin" quote that got me thinking.so it will not have a negative effect, only it would be better to take after to take advantage of the "nutrient shuttling" correct.

i have heard different verdicts on the hypo effect, what is your experience? i ask because i plan to NEVER even consider using insulin, due to going hypo and the possible mild side effect death

thanks for input on both threads,very helpfull and appreciated

Bobaslaw · Apr 28, 2008

guns123 said:
ok, it was just the"not so early that you trigger insulin" quote that got me thinking.so it will not have a negative effect, only it would be better to take after to take advantage of the "nutrient shuttling" correct.

i have heard different verdicts on the hypo effect, what is your experience? i ask because i plan to NEVER even consider using insulin, due to going hypo and the possible mild side effect death

thanks for input on both threads,very helpfull and appreciated

You are correct. It does not matter if you have a pre or during workout carb shake. What matters is that you do get carbs with your IGF to take advantage of the shuttling as well as keep your plasma glucose sufficient enough to negate any possible hypo feelings. Personally IGF1 has never made me very hypo. Very mild for me even up to 80mcg at one point a long time ago. (I do keep it at 40-50mcg these days).