igf causing Cancer?

[gridlock]

Guys,

I just spoke to IP and he said he doesnt recommend IGF as it caused cancer to one of his friends. has anybody else heard about this?

 

[goldlifter]

from its mechanism of action, i don't think it could CAUSE cancer but it could act as a catalyst to speed the progression

 

[healthfreak79]

We all ave cancer cells in our body things like igf and hgh i think to a lesser degree will speed up cancer cells. I dont know all the science stuff but they say that igf makes new cells and makes cells bigger. Some of those cells it made bigger are cancer cells. This is how i think its linked to cancer.

 

[celtic-devil]

Well a cancer cell is basically just a damaged cell which mutates and grows uncontrollably. We all have many thousands of damaged cells in our bodies.

When a cell becomes cancerous, it produces massive amounts of IGF-1 which induces it to grow at a very fast rate. A standard test in hospitals is to measure the IGF-1 levels in a patients blood as an indicator of the presence of cancer.

There are some theories which say IGF-1 contruibutes to cancer in a number of ways.
1 - Our bodies normal protection against cancerous cells is to simply let them die. The vast majority of damaged cells in our bodies die off before they actually become cancerous. However, IGF-1 can prolong the life of a damaged cell thus, theoretically, giving it more of a chance of eventually becoming cancerous as our body no longer has the defence mechanism of allowing the cell to die off.
2 - IGF-1, as explained, promotes cell division.

So, IGF-1 does not actually CAUSE cells to mutate and become cancerous. They do this on their own. However, it may increase the chances that a cell can mutate by virtue of the fact that it increases the lifespan of damaged cells.

As regards promoting the division of already cancerous cells...it may or may not. This is because, a cancerous cell will already be producing a massive amount of IGF-1 by itself, in order to self-promote it's own growth (Hence the reason IGF-1 shows up on cancer patients blood tests). It is unclear, however, whether extra exogenous IGF-1 will promote growth even further since there is plenty of IGF-1 being produced by the cancerous cell anyway.

I find it difficult to understand how IP could *know* that IGF-1 caused cancer in his friend. I would think it is unlikely that it actually caused cancer, strictly speaking. However, it *may* have contributed and/or sped up the process for the reasons I already outlined. Of course, I am not familiar with his friends situation so I really wouldnt be in a position to comment on it and it wouldnt be very appropriate of me to do so. IP is more familiar with his friends situation than I am.

But, like I said...the jury is out on this one. Some studies into IGF-1 claim benefits which reduce the rate of cancer. My best advice would be that if you have any pre-disposition to cancer in your family or a fear of it, then steer clear of IGF-1. You should also steer clear of GH (which will convert to IGF-1) and any other peptides for that matter. The science behind them regarding cancer is simply not conclusive. You really do not want to take unnessecary or irresponsible risks where cancer is involved. Trust me, I know...and I'm sure many members here (possibly yourself) have seen it too.

If you want to look up a previous thread, I discussed this same topic with Grunt-76 some time back. I cant recall what the thread title was though.

CD

 

[Golgo13]

How does he know that the IGF caused the cancer, maybe he had it already.

 

[VallhallaOrBust]

I remember reading a post by SWALE that IGF was risky but GH wasn't due to a key difference between the two.

If I find it I will post more info. Does anyone know what he might have been refering to?

 

[mikeheavypecs]

CD,
Obviously, you are extremely knowledgeable in this topic. After 6 months on GH this past year, I got diagnosed with Squamous Cell Carcinoma (skin cancer). Neither the Dermatologist nor Plastic surgeon that removed the tiny tumor on my nose has any idea about GH "causing" this. Do you think there could have been any relationship? I "need " to take GH for a contest this year and mentally I have been debating pros and cons. It seems that no one really knows; I am tempted to take Growth H along with my AAS but I don't want to regret it in the future. Also a bro of mine that knows nothing about medicine says that if I have skin cancer I might have other types of cancer in my body that GH might trigger? What is your opinion on this? I'm in my early 50's and when I was on it I felt on the top of the world (no back (disc) problems etc)....

Thanks for taking the time to answer, Bro. This is very important to me....

Much respect,
Mike

Well a cancer cell is basically just a damaged cell which mutates and grows uncontrollably. We all have many thousands of damaged cells in our bodies.

When a cell becomes cancerous, it produces massive amounts of IGF-1 which induces it to grow at a very fast rate. A standard test in hospitals is to measure the IGF-1 levels in a patients blood as an indicator of the presence of cancer.

There are some theories which say IGF-1 contruibutes to cancer in a number of ways.
1 - Our bodies normal protection against cancerous cells is to simply let them die. The vast majority of damaged cells in our bodies die off before they actually become cancerous. However, IGF-1 can prolong the life of a damaged cell thus, theoretically, giving it more of a chance of eventually becoming cancerous as our body no longer has the defence mechanism of allowing the cell to die off.
2 - IGF-1, as explained, promotes cell division.

So, IGF-1 does not actually CAUSE cells to mutate and become cancerous. They do this on their own. However, it may increase the chances that a cell can mutate by virtue of the fact that it increases the lifespan of damaged cells.

As regards promoting the division of already cancerous cells...it may or may not. This is because, a cancerous cell will already be producing a massive amount of IGF-1 by itself, in order to self-promote it's own growth (Hence the reason IGF-1 shows up on cancer patients blood tests). It is unclear, however, whether extra exogenous IGF-1 will promote growth even further since there is plenty of IGF-1 being produced by the cancerous cell anyway.

I find it difficult to understand how IP could *know* that IGF-1 caused cancer in his friend. I would think it is unlikely that it actually caused cancer, strictly speaking. However, it *may* have contributed and/or sped up the process for the reasons I already outlined. Of course, I am not familiar with his friends situation so I really wouldnt be in a position to comment on it and it wouldnt be very appropriate of me to do so. IP is more familiar with his friends situation than I am.

But, like I said...the jury is out on this one. Some studies into IGF-1 claim benefits which reduce the rate of cancer. My best advice would be that if you have any pre-disposition to cancer in your family or a fear of it, then steer clear of IGF-1. You should also steer clear of GH (which will convert to IGF-1) and any other peptides for that matter. The science behind them regarding cancer is simply not conclusive. You really do not want to take unnessecary or irresponsible risks where cancer is involved. Trust me, I know...and I'm sure many members here (possibly yourself) have seen it too.

If you want to look up a previous thread, I discussed this same topic with Grunt-76 some time back. I cant recall what the thread title was though.

CD

 

[mikeheavypecs]

I can't find the previous thread that CD was referring to. Anyone find it?

Thanks
MIke

Well a cancer cell is basically just a damaged cell which mutates and grows uncontrollably. We all have many thousands of damaged cells in our bodies.

When a cell becomes cancerous, it produces massive amounts of IGF-1 which induces it to grow at a very fast rate. A standard test in hospitals is to measure the IGF-1 levels in a patients blood as an indicator of the presence of cancer.

There are some theories which say IGF-1 contruibutes to cancer in a number of ways.
1 - Our bodies normal protection against cancerous cells is to simply let them die. The vast majority of damaged cells in our bodies die off before they actually become cancerous. However, IGF-1 can prolong the life of a damaged cell thus, theoretically, giving it more of a chance of eventually becoming cancerous as our body no longer has the defence mechanism of allowing the cell to die off.
2 - IGF-1, as explained, promotes cell division.

So, IGF-1 does not actually CAUSE cells to mutate and become cancerous. They do this on their own. However, it may increase the chances that a cell can mutate by virtue of the fact that it increases the lifespan of damaged cells.

As regards promoting the division of already cancerous cells...it may or may not. This is because, a cancerous cell will already be producing a massive amount of IGF-1 by itself, in order to self-promote it's own growth (Hence the reason IGF-1 shows up on cancer patients blood tests). It is unclear, however, whether extra exogenous IGF-1 will promote growth even further since there is plenty of IGF-1 being produced by the cancerous cell anyway.

I find it difficult to understand how IP could *know* that IGF-1 caused cancer in his friend. I would think it is unlikely that it actually caused cancer, strictly speaking. However, it *may* have contributed and/or sped up the process for the reasons I already outlined. Of course, I am not familiar with his friends situation so I really wouldnt be in a position to comment on it and it wouldnt be very appropriate of me to do so. IP is more familiar with his friends situation than I am.

But, like I said...the jury is out on this one. Some studies into IGF-1 claim benefits which reduce the rate of cancer. My best advice would be that if you have any pre-disposition to cancer in your family or a fear of it, then steer clear of IGF-1. You should also steer clear of GH (which will convert to IGF-1) and any other peptides for that matter. The science behind them regarding cancer is simply not conclusive. You really do not want to take unnessecary or irresponsible risks where cancer is involved. Trust me, I know...and I'm sure many members here (possibly yourself) have seen it too.

If you want to look up a previous thread, I discussed this same topic with Grunt-76 some time back. I cant recall what the thread title was though.

CD

 

[vadim_b1]

CD,
Obviously, you are extremely knowledgeable in this topic. After 6 months on GH this past year, I got diagnosed with Squamous Cell Carcinoma (skin cancer). Neither the Dermatologist nor Plastic surgeon that removed the tiny tumor on my nose has any idea about GH "causing" this. Do you think there could have been any relationship? I "need " to take GH for a contest this year and mentally I have been debating pros and cons. It seems that no one really knows; I am tempted to take Growth H along with my AAS but I don't want to regret it in the future. Also a bro of mine that knows nothing about medicine says that if I have skin cancer I might have other types of cancer in my body that GH might trigger? What is your opinion on this? I'm in my early 50's and when I was on it I felt on the top of the world (no back (disc) problems etc)....

Thanks for taking the time to answer, Bro. This is very important to me....

Much respect,
Mike

For igf/hgh to cause cancer they need to be mutagenic i.e change the cell's DNA. Neither of them have this property.
Its not true that we have cancerous cells in our body. We do not. Once a cell has become cancerous it is IMMEDIATELY destroyed. It is not just left to die.
It is when our immune response is jeopardized, and is unable to detect cancerous cells that cancer is allowed to profilerate.
With that said, I definitely do not recommend you to take GH right now. For the simple reasons that the surgery might not have removed all the cells.
If any still remain, GH/IGF will ACCELERATE their growth. (That is the key, they do not cause cancer, but they accelerate it very well - this is why growing children die from cancer very quickly). I suggest you take at least a year off and observe any changes at the surgery site, possibly undergo some more tests. Only when you are completely sure that your cancer has been dealt with can you hop on HGH again.
A competition is not worth dying for.

 

[Otis T Holbrook]

Another study

IGF-1 and advanced prostate cancer
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA. Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) is a potent stimulator of prostate cancer cell growth. It is mostly found in the blood bound to its carrier, IGF binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3). Only the unbound form of IGF-1 has a cancer promoting effect.
A team of researchers from Harvard Medical School and the University of California has just completed a major study aimed at determining if IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels can predict the risk of developing advanced stage prostate cancer. Their study involved 530 patients with prostate cancer and 534 controls matched for sex and smoking status. All participants were part of the Physicians' Health Study and were between the ages of 40 and 84 years at enrollment in 1982. Almost 15,000 of the men provided blood samples that were stored for future analysis. By the end of 1995, 786 cases of prostate cancer had been diagnosed among the 14,916 participants (5.2%). Sufficient blood plasma for IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 analysis was available for 530 of the cases and their matched 534 controls. The diagnosis of prostate cancer was made an average of 9 years after the drawing of the blood samples.
The researchers observed a strong association between IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels and the risk of advanced prostate cancer, but found no association with early stage disease. They found that men with IGF levels in the highest quartile had a 5.1 times higher risk of later developing advanced stage prostate cancer than did men in the lowest quartile. Men with IGFBP-3 levels in the highest quartile, on the other hand, had a 5 times lower risk of later advanced stage cancer (OR=0.2). Advanced stage prostate cancer was defined as stage C (extraprostatic, but no evidence of distant metastases) or stage D (distant metastatic or fatal). About 10% of the total 530 cases were stage D. The researchers speculate that IGF- 1 not only stimulates tumour initiation and growth, but may also facilitate invasion and metastases. They conclude that measurement of IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels may predict the risk of advanced stage prostate cancer years before the cancer is actually diagnosed and may thus be helpful in aiding decision making about treatment.
Chan, June M., et al. Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) and IGF binding protein-3 as predictors of advanced-stage prostate cancer. Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Vol. 94, July 17, 2002, pp. 1099-1106
Chan, June M. Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) and IGF binding protein-3 as predictors of advanced- stage prostate cancer. Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Vol. 94, December 18, 2002, pp. 1893-94

 

[No-Go]

fuck it if i have got them im on a downhill road anyway so i may as well do what i love and bodybuild using IGF as one of my tools. There are so many scientific studies saying you can get cancer through red meat etc next thing you know the air we breathe will cause cancer. I take everything regarding this subject with a pinch of salt

 

[mikeheavypecs]

Vadim,
You are right. A competition isn't worth it. It is amazing how much we get into getting HUGE and winning no matter what happens to our body. I was almost ready to take the risk! Not now thanks to your posting. I will just have to use the ole AAS cycles and hope I can win that way I must say for someone my age, GH is the fountain of youth however......

Thanks a million Bro!

MIke

For igf/hgh to cause cancer they need to be mutagenic i.e change the cell's DNA. Neither of them have this property.
Its not true that we have cancerous cells in our body. We do not. Once a cell has become cancerous it is IMMEDIATELY destroyed. It is not just left to die.
It is when our immune response is jeopardized, and is unable to detect cancerous cells that cancer is allowed to profilerate.
With that said, I definitely do not recommend you to take GH right now. For the simple reasons that the surgery might not have removed all the cells.
If any still remain, GH/IGF will ACCELERATE their growth. (That is the key, they do not cause cancer, but they accelerate it very well - this is why growing children die from cancer very quickly). I suggest you take at least a year off and observe any changes at the surgery site, possibly undergo some more tests. Only when you are completely sure that your cancer has been dealt with can you hop on HGH again.
A competition is not worth dying for.

 

[celtic-devil]

For igf/hgh to cause cancer they need to be mutagenic i.e change the cell's DNA. Neither of them have this property.
Its not true that we have cancerous cells in our body. We do not. Once a cell has become cancerous it is IMMEDIATELY destroyed. It is not just left to die.
It is when our immune response is jeopardized, and is unable to detect cancerous cells that cancer is allowed to profilerate.
With that said, I definitely do not recommend you to take GH right now. For the simple reasons that the surgery might not have removed all the cells.
If any still remain, GH/IGF will ACCELERATE their growth. (That is the key, they do not cause cancer, but they accelerate it very well - this is why growing children die from cancer very quickly). I suggest you take at least a year off and observe any changes at the surgery site, possibly undergo some more tests. Only when you are completely sure that your cancer has been dealt with can you hop on HGH again.
A competition is not worth dying for.

THis is correct.

IGF-1 cannot actually cause cancer. It may contribute to it however.

Perhaps saying many people have cancerous cells in our body is misleading, but many do have damaged/mutagenic cells in their body. Many things can cause this - oxidative stress, Viral infection etc etc (sunburn can damage a cells DNA).

In itself, this is not a major concern since The formation of cancer (uncontrollable cell division) has 2 phases. The initiation phase (cell DNA damage) and then the Promotion phase (division of the damaged cell - this can occur in several ways - several hormones can promote cell division, as can growth factors like IGF-1)

As Vadim says, the body's response to cell damage is Apoptosis (programmed cell death). In most cases of DNA damage, the damaged cell will be allowed undergo Apoptosis. However, when you introduce growth factors into the mix, you are basically throwing in a very powerful "promoter" and making it far more likely that the cell will not undergo Apoptosis and will progress onto the next phase....promotion and divison of the cell.
Then Voila, a tumour begins to form....
So, in this sense they "cause" cancer. "cause" may be the wrong word however....but they are certainly a very important contributing factor.

Like Vadim said, as well as helping the cell progress to the second phase, IGF-1 may speed up this division even further causing even more rapid tumour growth.

The fact is that all it takes to form a malignant and fatal tumour is ONE cell. One cell only.

So, Mike, I'll side with Vadim on this one and encourage you not to take ANY growth factors. It simply isnt worth it...especially considering your history.

I think you should reconsider EVER going on any growth factors again but at this stage I really would urge to absolutley not do it. It simply isnt worth it. We all take risks in this game...some more than others. I dont know if you have a wife/family etc, but I'm sure you have more important things in your life than a competition and where the risks outweighs the benefits I'm sure you'll have agree it's wise to re-assess.


Certainly, if you are ever going to go on growth factors again at some time in the future, I would urge you to be under the strict supervision of a professional and strictly on a "rejuvenative" dose.

Anyways, hope this helps.

CD

 

[bigdog123]

I have read that hgh isnt as bad as igf in that after injecting it your body releases a certain amount of IGFBP-3 in addition to the igf production. This in itself acts as a protector to cells being increased if cancerous.
Is this the case or would hgh be just as dangerous as igf?
also, if one used igf and hgh would the cancerous cell speed up right there and then or could it affect cancer 20 years down the line.
What i mean is you dont see anymore cancer in BB`s than the general population, if anything it is less, so all this hgh and igf being taken (hgh since the 80`s) wouldnt that have lead to more cancers being found amongst the BB fraternity or is it likely using these substances at a younger age (20-40) wopuld increase the chances of cancer developing at a later age (60-70)??

Also, relating back to the prostate cancer article.. If someone has a high IGF concentration (say 3-4 times higher than normal) over their whole life span then obviously cancer has a higher chance of deveolpin and growing at a later age as in the article where guys were looked at for theri igf levels over a 20 year period.
With BB`s who use igf and hgh irregularly, say a few months a year at a young age and once they hit 40`s they may give up the igf and hgh and live a normal life, surely at this point igf levels return to normal and the fact the levels were higher during the younger years matters not??

 

[celtic-devil]

I have read that hgh isnt as bad as igf in that after injecting it your body releases a certain amount of IGFBP-3 in addition to the igf production. This in itself acts as a protector to cells being increased if cancerous.
Is this the case or would hgh be just as dangerous as igf?
also, if one used igf and hgh would the cancerous cell speed up right there and then or could it affect cancer 20 years down the line.
What i mean is you dont see anymore cancer in BB`s than the general population, if anything it is less, so all this hgh and igf being taken (hgh since the 80`s) wouldnt that have lead to more cancers being found amongst the BB fraternity or is it likely using these substances at a younger age (20-40) wopuld increase the chances of cancer developing at a later age (60-70)??

Also, relating back to the prostate cancer article.. If someone has a high IGF concentration (say 3-4 times higher than normal) over their whole life span then obviously cancer has a higher chance of deveolpin and growing at a later age as in the article where guys were looked at for theri igf levels over a 20 year period.
With BB`s who use igf and hgh irregularly, say a few months a year at a young age and once they hit 40`s they may give up the igf and hgh and live a normal life, surely at this point igf levels return to normal and the fact the levels were higher during the younger years matters not??

It wouldn't really be appropriate for me to answer with any authority because to be honest, I really dont know and anything I say would be pure conjecture.

I am not familiar with the IGF-BP3 thing but I would definitely be interested in looking into it.

As far as present use of IGF affecting your cancer risk down the line, I really dont know either, sorry.
I've done a bit of reading on the IGF-1/GH & cancer risk but i am by no means anywhere even close to being an expert on it so I wouldnt like to mislead anyone by offering my opinion as holding any kind of authority.

But, just thinking off the top of my head, IGF-1 use would be unlikely to affect your risk of developing cancer 20 years down the line. Although IGF-1 can help a damaged cell bypass Apoptosis (cell death), it would not do so forever and provided the cell did not begin to divide, then it would die "eventually". How long IGF-1 would help it survive is something I do not know. My guess is that once you stop taking growth factors and cancerous cell division has not actually occurred yet, your cancer-risk level would fall to your "normal" range soon after as your IGF-1 blood levels would return to normal.
But all this is purely a guess....I havent looked that particular issue in any depth.

I would warn people against one thing though. It is quite dangerous to look at any one study and form a conclusive opinion based on it. With this subject, there are literally hundreds (if not more) of studies. Some say IGF-1 contributes to cancer, some say it guards against it in certain ways (like stabilising the DNA structure of a damaged cell and making division more unlikely) and so reduces the risk of cancer. The simple fact is, the science is inconclusive and unclear (at least to me....and I would think to the specialists also). No one study is supreme and the deeper you examine it, the more difficult it gets to form any conclusions. There is NO HARD OR CONCLUSIVE SCIENCE here. It is precisely this unpredictability that gives it an added danger you wont typically find with AAS.

My best advice would be that to think about your use of growth factors. Dont treat it in the same manner as AAS, because it just isn't. Everyone needs to be aware that they carry different risks than AAS and each person needs to decide if they are OK with those risks. When you make that decision thoug, make sure it is an informed one.

I wont advise everyone that IGF-1 etc is a bad idea (many get fantastic effects & zero sides) but for anyone who has a family history of cancer or is a particular risk for some reason, you really are taking a roll of the dice when you take IGF-1, and I would certainly advise you not to.

CD

 

[zephyr22]

Well I work in the hospital directly with patients etc....

I have been reading a bit on some medical journals about the use of Igf-1 etc... in true medical literature. I can say that it is scientifically based that igf-1 can speed up progression of any fast growing cells Ie skin, hair, tissue of intestinal walls, also our good old friend cancer. Now, that being said Igf-1 is not the culprit of "causing" the cancer. There are a lot of views on how cancer starts. Many scientists and Doctors believe it is a mutated cell in our bodies at birth. It seems to be very genetic linked. Just like in womens cases of breast cancer etc... Then there is the idea of toxifying our bodies. Given too many free radicals in the body or outside toxins such as heavy metals, chemicals from industrie, asbestos etc..... are thought to cause mutations in the cells DNA. Like I said I work in the hospital and diagnose and treat these people. I think it is a little of both. Genetics being number one factor, then take in the abuse you put on your body, then add in some Igf-1?????? So, now if you have it in your family heredity, also do a lot of chemicals=ie steroids, DNP etc.... Then you are a high risk person with a high susceptability to cancer. Then all the igf will do is speed up the progression of cancer growth. Also Mike being you have obviously had cancer you should definately not use HGH until your medically cleared. I would not take the risk at this time, not worth it in my opinion. Remember, are you making money from competing??? Is it your lively hood??? Or just a hobby??? I have to stop myself a lot and ask these questions also. Just make sure your Physician knows what kind of AS or HGH that you use so they can follow you closely. I hope your contest goes well.

 

[bigdog123]

If I was Mike I would DEFINATELY not use HGH after having any cancer. It isnt worth the risk.

I still cant understand why the average BB hasnt had more cancer though than the avergae person. look at the pros and thousands of amateurs using bundles of hgh and igf for many, many years now.

Why havent these guys had cancer or are more prone to it?
Maybe all the growth factors used when they were competing may activate some cancer 20-30 years down the line but I cant see how using igf/hgh in 1985 would cause cancer in 2007 if it attacks damaged cells at that point in time... You get my drift??

All the guys from the 80/90`s, Arnold, Zane, Robinson, Labrada, Ray all these guys and thousands more who all most have used a shit load of growth factors at some point.
It seems the biggest risk is heart problems and kidney problems in BB`s.

Guys like Cutler and Coleman and many more must be knocking down 20ius HGH and igf every day along with all the other shit around these days..

Opinions?!!

 

[celtic-devil]

I have been reading a bit on some medical journals about the use of Igf-1 etc... in true medical literature. I can say that it is scientifically based that igf-1 can speed up progression of any fast growing cells Ie skin, hair, tissue of intestinal walls, also our good old friend cancer. Now, that being said Igf-1 is not the culprit of "causing" the cancer. There are a lot of views on how cancer starts. Many scientists and Doctors believe it is a mutated cell in our bodies at birth. It seems to be very genetic linked. Just like in womens cases of breast cancer etc... Then there is the idea of toxifying our bodies. Given too many free radicals in the body or outside toxins such as heavy metals, chemicals from industrie, asbestos etc..... are thought to cause mutations in the cells DNA. Like I said I work in the hospital and diagnose and treat these people. I think it is a little of both. Genetics being number one factor, then take in the abuse you put on your body, then add in some Igf-1?????? So, now if you have it in your family heredity, also do a lot of chemicals=ie steroids, DNP etc.... Then you are a high risk person with a high susceptability to cancer. Then all the igf will do is speed up the progression of cancer growth. Also Mike being you have obviously had cancer you should definately not use HGH until your medically cleared. I would not take the risk at this time, not worth it in my opinion. Remember, are you making money from competing??? Is it your lively hood??? Or just a hobby??? I have to stop myself a lot and ask these questions also. Just make sure your Physician knows what kind of AS or HGH that you use so they can follow you closely. I hope your contest goes well.

Hi Zephyr,

While it's undoubtedly true that IGF-1 does indeed speed up progression of cancer cells (dont think this is really a point of contention) does this apply to exogenous IGF-1 also?

From my understanding, a cancerous cell will be producing massive amounts of IGF-1 in order to sustain it's own growth. So, given that it is already self-producing it's own IGF-1, is this self-production sufficient for optimal cell divison of the cancerous cell or can exogenous IGF-1 actually speed it up further?? I ask because I have found it difficult to find much reliable information on whether IGF-1 will speed up the progress of a cancerous growth when the process of cell division and self-production of IGF-1 has already begun. I was under the impression that the science is unclear that this could actually occur.

What are your views also on the various studies which have attributed cancer fighting effects to IGF-1? It seems to me that the as soon as a study comes out claiming that IGF-1 increases cancer risk for X reasons, I can just as easily stumble across a study stating that IGF-1 reduces the risk of cancer for Y reasons.

Would be interesting to hear your input.


CD

 

[zephyr22]

Well....

Sonny Schmidt did die of cancer. I will say that most cancers are seen later in life. Not, all but most. Also bodybuilders who get sick etc...usually blame it on something other than the use of AS, and other growth promotants. So, that being said not many people come out and say they have cancer, liver failure, intestinal ulcerations etc... Now ask some of the retired pro BB as of late and they may have some bad horror storys. Im just going off what Ive seen. These drugs that are being used for BB should not be taken lightly. These days dosages have never been fully storied and or even thought of by the previous generations of BB. Phil Hernon is a veteran from his era. He could probably tell you im sure that the doses doing today by some local BB to do local shows is just ludicrous.

 

[zephyr22]

The truth is...

It is mostly theoretical..... I know that Igf-1 is being used for what is called "leprechaunism" . This is when your body becomes desensitized to insulin. Igf-1 actually increases insulin sensitivity thus the drop in blood sugars following administration 30 minutes after. Also, this is a good way to see if the Igf=1 injections are even real. Most of the science is not based on weight trained athletes of course.. Exogenous administration of igf-1 can and doese cause increased growth of tissues. This has been well documented but weather it can initate a cancerous growth is uknown at this time. The chemical itself just has not had enough time to be studied in clinical trials.. So basically when we use substances such as this dont be suprised poof is something bad happens. Just my take on it. On the question of cancer cells secreting there own Igf-1 to rapidly produce mitosis, and using igf-exogenously one could say that each would probably give the same result. Again, in theory. The only problem is dosage. What amount of igf-1 is secreted by the cancer cell??? No, one can say. So, the adding of exogenous Igf-1 is probably an extremely large dose compartively to the secretion endogenously. Like, I said all in theory of course.