Metformin year round?

[Mike Arnold]

Exactly . Do you know how much lower your igf levels will be with metformin at 500 850 or 1000 when using 4iu gh , 6iu gh. I'm curious because this is the info I look for my self now, and like you said will the benefits outweigh the negatives it's such a slippery slope, because when all of those things are combatting each other (gh , slin, met) it's really hard to see the differences especially because your research will never be exactly the same, weight and bf% wise.

And yea you can post marijuana lowers insulin levels and probably have 50 new bodybuilders smoking it because of something you said. It's that simple, my only argument was using it in the same cycle as you use insulin and gh because I see the potentials for the drug I just don't see it year round.

There are so many potential variables that it would be impossible to answer what someone's IGF-1 level will be when using a certain dose of met and GH. Personal response, drug-use, diet, etc--all can impact IGF-1 readings.

This is why I said before that posting studies is not always possible. Could you imagine anyone funding the type of research that would needed in order to come to even a semi-definitive conclusion? Yeah, right. This is why real-world experience is to vital to getting answers to bodybuilding related matters.

When feasible, we can have guys get bloodwork, but again, with so many potential variables, even with a dozen people doing bloodwork, we would only nip the tip of the iceberg on this one. In addition to the above-mentioned variables, we would also need to some way to confirm product legitimacy. In other words, unless the testers were using pharm-grade PED's, we could not be sure that the dosages, and therefore the results, were accurate. There's just so many possible things which could change the scenario, some of which are in our control and some which aren't..


When dealing with individuals, I look at the bigger picture in order to determine whether or not I think metformin use is warranted. What's their diet like? What PED's are they using, in what dosages, and for how long? Are they displaying any signs of insulin resistance, and a half-dozen other things.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I have taken up to 1G at a time empty stomach before cardio just to test.

Been dieting last month, I can say one thing for sure, hunger is way down. drastically.

All the guys asking how much it cuts IGF levels. there is nothing out there with relevant data. I propose we do testing like we all did with GH serum tests.

I will do a on met and off met before summer. We should get 5-10 guys to see if we can come up with enough data to see some trending.

Sounds interesting.

 

[Allday]

I have taken up to 1G at a time empty stomach before cardio just to test.

Been dieting last month, I can say one thing for sure, hunger is way down. drastically.

All the guys asking how much it cuts IGF levels. there is nothing out there with relevant data. I propose we do testing like we all did with GH serum tests.

I will do a on met and off met before summer. We should get 5-10 guys to see if we can come up with enough data to see some trending.

Think that's one of the best things about metformin when dieting. It slows gastric emptying so you stay fuller on the same food much longer.

Also a potential reason why it might be more effective in such a situation vs bulking. From an appetite standpoint, that is.

 

[spartan995]

@Mike Arnold - I appreciate your input on metformin. I have been extremely curious and am trying it once it lands. There isn't much out there, that I have found anyways, about it. I love good solid experience and information on new tools to further my goals.

 

[devenidas]

Hi Mike quick question you mentioned in your Max growth and recovery article that '' Berberine is potentially the most potent of the OTC sensitizers. When taken at equivalent doses, some clinical trials have show improvements in insulin sensitivity in par with metformin, which is exceedingly impressive, to say the least.'' So I ordered it as i am on thr insulin resistant side/ visceral fat and started it last night. Glycox 500 mg x 3 times a day with berberine HCl and banana leaf. I have read normal people reviews not bbers who suffers from diabetes etc on amazon UK and USA sites where they found berberine so damn good that they didn't need their doc prescribed metformin anymore and stopped using Met totally .

So my question is if berberine is so good and close to Met in its good effects does it also have the sort of negative sides of Met which you mentioned in your previous posts for non PED user bbers ? I would like to know please as I am not on any PEDs at present. No gear nothing . Many thanks

 

[Jizzmo]

Hi Mike quick question you mentioned in your Max growth and recovery article that '' Berberine is potentially the most potent of the OTC sensitizers. When taken at equivalent doses, some clinical trials have show improvements in insulin sensitivity in par with metformin, which is exceedingly impressive, to say the least.'' So I ordered it as i am on thr insulin resistant side/ visceral fat and started it last night. Glycox 500 mg x 3 times a day with berberine HCl and banana leaf. I have read normal people reviews not bbers who suffers from diabetes etc on amazon UK and USA sites where they found berberine so damn good that they didn't need their doc prescribed metformin anymore and stopped using Met totally .

So my question is if berberine is so good and close to Met in its good effects does it also have the sort of negative sides of Met which you mentioned in your previous posts for non PED user bbers ? I would like to know please as I am not on any PEDs at present. No gear nothing . Many thanks

i use the same stuff you do, i can say so much that it doesnt give the gastric distress.
berberine also has many other health benefits.
imo its even superior to metformin.

 

[Beaver24]

we an all bullshit a response or you could take glucose test on and off and prove it.

PS share the result.

Ok I can do that. What am I trying to prove? I do not follow.

So take glucose test with Metformin after I eat carbs so 10 minutres later.

Then next day do not take the Metformin and repeat?

 

[DonVin]

Since HGH use decreases insulin sensitivity which is why many use insulin with it.....Would Berberine hcl be good to use say after training when you would consume a high protein and high carb meal or shake. This would be to try and achieve more uptake and more mass. AS would also be used in conjusction so anyone have any feedback?

 

[LEX]

Ok I can do that. What am I trying to prove? I do not follow.

So take glucose test with Metformin after I eat carbs so 10 minutres later.

Then next day do not take the Metformin and repeat?

What was your original question?

 

[LEX]

Sounds interesting.

Obviously its Broscience but if we see trends we can have a better guess.

 

[sma]

Does anyone else notice strength loss? My overall gym sessions get in the gutter even being 10-12% bf with metformin , this isn't the case if I'm just dieting not using met. My gym performance only declines once I'm breaking the 8% mark and strength gets affected when I'm under 8% I would say more around 6% anyone else notice this?

 

[sma]

Obviously its Broscience but if we see trends we can have a better guess.

No i would say it could be clinical if you have set variables we can control and have like you said various testers that are healthy. We can definitely prove something .

 

[Beaver24]

What was your original question?

Got you.

 

[Allday]

Does anyone else notice strength loss? My overall gym sessions get in the gutter even being 10-12% bf with metformin , this isn't the case if I'm just dieting not using met. My gym performance only declines once I'm breaking the 8% mark and strength gets affected when I'm under 8% I would say more around 6% anyone else notice this?

I kind of have. At least it's what I thought the last time I dieted. I would use 2-3 grams once a week on my carb up and 1 gram split between my pre/post workout meal 2 times a week when dieting for my last show. Definitely felt weaker than past preps. But I also got more shredded than I ever have before.

I ended up rebounding afterwards eating an extremely low fat, high carb diet with consistent cardio using metformin and my strength skyrocketed.

I didn't hit prs (also wasn't training for them) but strength and energy was far from an issue.

Funny because I share that feeling you had last time I dieted with it, but ultimately think it came down to severe calorie restriction. From my experience, anyway.

 

[LEX]

No i would say it could be clinical if you have set variables we can control and have like you said various testers that are healthy. We can definitely prove something .

Lets work on a protocol.

 

[Cerberus777]

Since HGH use decreases insulin sensitivity which is why many use insulin with it.....Would Berberine hcl be good to use say after training when you would consume a high protein and high carb meal or shake. This would be to try and achieve more uptake and more mass. AS would also be used in conjusction so anyone have any feedback?

I like berberine a lot, but it needs to be taken through out the day, and seems to need a few days to start working.

 

[Cerberus777]

Does anyone else notice strength loss? My overall gym sessions get in the gutter even being 10-12% bf with metformin , this isn't the case if I'm just dieting not using met. My gym performance only declines once I'm breaking the 8% mark and strength gets affected when I'm under 8% I would say more around 6% anyone else notice this?

Do you use intra workout carbs? It blocks a lot of glucose storage in the liver. If your workout is long at least sip on gatorade.

 

[sma]

Do you use intra workout carbs? It blocks a lot of glucose storage in the liver. If your workout is long at least sip on gatorade.

No I don't use intra workout carbs, I tried it but I feel to high , i will admit that I did get 1-2 more reps or can lift 5-10lbs heavier but I don't like the feeling. I rather feel calmer more relaxed and go about my workout with a clear state of mind. I guess I should be using a lot more intra workout carbs but my diet has been far from bodybuilding esque in that I've been focusing on 2-3 bigger meals a day every 6 -8hours. I been reading a lot on digestion and protein synthesis and this has helped me to keep a much tighter waist and lower fasting glucose, with less cardio . In comparison to same macros over 6 meals.

I think in the future I will just use metformin 4-6 hours away from training so something like am, lunch and before bed with training at 7pm bed at 11pm . So pre and post workout carbs get fully utlized

 

[Whey2Heavy]

This is amazing... Ever since starting a gram of the extended release metformin daily, I have to practically force myself to eat 2000 calories when I typically feel hungry eating 4000+. This is my new favorite dieting tool.

 

[FranJ]

After 2 days of cheating, eating shitloads of food while doing keto, I went back to my keto diet and after 1 week I keep fullness in my muscles, no flat.

Used 500mg morning after cheat, another 500mg 6h later and 500mg before bed, I was in keto state again after 36h...

I love this drug pre contest :headbang: