Mixed feelings on IGF1 bloodwork #'s

[Itachi]

just so I'm reading it right, you said you got HIGHER IGF-1 readings WITHOUT their protocol?

i was always taught to never inject gh and insulin at the same time (or eat to cause insulin release) because it will make the gh useless

Yep you're reading it right, and on half the dose. It was only about 50 points higher but it was worth mentioning.

Before the video protocol, I was the same way (avoiding insulin release around my gh shots). I'll be going back to the avoid insulin release method.

 

[thewizkid]

Yep you're reading it right, and on half the dose. It was only about 50 points higher but it was worth mentioning.

Before the video protocol, I was the same way (avoiding insulin release around my gh shots). I'll be going back to the avoid insulin release method.

yeah I've always done it this way, i was too paranoid on wasting gh because it was so expensive

i know many others tell you to inject them both creating some sort of IGF synergy but i find that quite weird since in the human body, GH is released at NIGHT/USED and unless you have someone walking up to you pinning you with insulin while you sleep then you're not eating anything

i think that was pretty much chad's theory in very simple words

 

[RamboStallone]

Why would the natural laws of endogenous hormone apply to injected exogenous hormones? Yea your body may not release slin and GH at the same time but when you injecting them there is no inhibition because you are injecting them, they are not released by the body. Slin and GH is the number one formula for IGF and muscle recovery.

 

[thewizkid]

Why would the natural laws of endogenous hormone apply to injected exogenous hormones? Yea your body may not release slin and GH at the same time but when you injecting them there is no inhibition because you are injecting them, they are not released by the body. Slin and GH is the number one formula for IGF and muscle recovery.

if your body only releases insulin when you eat food, do you inject exogenous insulin when you don't eat food?

do you inject igf-1 in the morning when you're sleeping? or when the body usually creates igf-1 like post workout?

it's not a law, it's just what IS done,

I've been taught BOTH that it doesn't matter and it does. I TRUST the person who taught me that it DOES matter more that you don't inject both proteins at the same time

you can inject them both if you'd like, I've never done that and have had great igf-1 levels and results, i guess my body is different than everyone else's

 

[RamboStallone]

Your reasons for doing it was becuase naturally you said the body does it that way. But naturally is out the window once you take exogenous hormones but you seem to think the same principles apply. Hence you don't inject gh and slin at the same time cuz the body usually doesn't do it that way. While in essence that is the key to maximum IGF production. The body isn't naturally geared towards bodybuilding, which is why we alter our hormonal make up to make it so. Gh won't blunt slin and slin won't blunt gh, they actually work together and very well.

So then you shouldn't eat postworkout or intra cuz the slin might blunt gh release? Think about that. And yes I've used lr3 prebed and AM successfully, so it should only be used postworkout? Why? Why are we even taking hormones if we want our body to function like it naturally does? What you're saying makes no sense brother.

 

[thewizkid]

Your reasons for doing it was becuase naturally you said the body does it that way. But naturally is out the window once you take exogenous hormones but you seem to think the same principles apply. Hence you don't inject gh and slin at the same time cuz the body usually doesn't do it that way. While in essence that is the key to maximum IGF production. The body isn't naturally geared towards bodybuilding, which is why we alter our hormonal make up to make it so. Gh won't blunt slin and slin won't blunt gh, they actually work together and very well.

So then you shouldn't eat postworkout or intra cuz the slin might blunt gh release? Think about that. And yes I've used lr3 prebed and AM successfully, so it should only be used postworkout? Why? Why are we even taking hormones if we want our body to function like it naturally does? What you're saying makes no sense brother.

why would eating postworkout or intra be affecting gh? i dont inject gh during training


Why is GH released at night for humans? Your theory is the human body wasn't meant to be bodybuilders, BUT were they meant to grow? During preteen times the most IMPORTANT thing is growth. I guess the human body forgot about the GH/INSULIN combo. How come people are injecting all this GH with little IGF1 but preteens have elevated IGF-1 levels without a ton of GH release? Why do we grow when we sleep and not eat while we sleep?

Theres honestly not enough research done, what you and I are claiming are just theories. Too many un answered questions.

I don't have any reason to argue, you do what you want to do. Doesn't bother me.

 

[RamboStallone]

Because the body naturally releases GH postworkout, under your theory eating postworkout would blunt this and hinder recovery (GH not present) and as bbers we know postworkout is probably the most important meal.

Sure we were meant to grow but that's only up to a certain age. After that we are done growing, we only recover. Naturally we don't grow like we do on PEDs, this is why I see a flaw in your theory. Those old theories were based on the natural hormonal system becuase we didn't have all the studies we have today on exogenous hormone use. We HAVE found out since then that exogneous hormones are not simply going to work like the natural process. Once we inject exogenous hormones we have disrupted this. The feedback loop alone will disrupt hormonal release, so thinking cuz you pin GH in the day that your body will release GH that night as you sleep is wishful thinking! Somatostatin levels will be high from the length of time GH levels were elevated which is 8-12hrs with exogenous HGH, why would the body release GH that night when it's been getting negative feedback for roughly half a day? You disrupted the process brother.

Just like After you inject test, its over for the natural production. And with slin and gh, it's the release of the hormone that is inhibited, not the activity. So when we inject them why would they not work? They are not being released, they are exogenous so inhibiting release is not a concern.

No argument brother, just food for thought.

 

[thewizkid]

Because the body naturally releases GH postworkout, under your theory eating postworkout would blunt this and hinder recovery (GH not present) and as bbers we know postworkout is probably the most important meal.

Sure we were meant to grow but that's only up to a certain age. After that we are done growing, we only recover. Naturally we don't grow like we do on PEDs, this is why I see a flaw in your theory. Those old theories were based on the natural hormonal system becuase we didn't have all the studies we have today on exogenous hormone use. We HAVE found out since then that exogneous hormones are not simply going to work like the natural process. Once we inject exogenous hormones we have disrupted this. The feedback loop alone will disrupt hormonal release, so thinking cuz you pin GH in the day that your body will release GH that night as you sleep is wishful thinking! Somatostatin levels will be high from the length of time GH levels were elevated which is 8-12hrs with exogenous HGH, why would the body release GH that night when it's been getting negative feedback for roughly half a day? You disrupted the process brother.

Just like After you inject test, its over for the natural production. And with slin and gh, it's the release of the hormone that is inhibited, not the activity. So when we inject them why would they not work? They are not being released, they are exogenous so inhibiting release is not a concern.

No argument brother, just food for thought.

like i said do what you wish, my time is not wasted arguing online
keep doing you

 

[DM2000]

I don't know what to think about IGF levels anymore. My workout partner is on a decent amount of anabolic with 8iu black tops/ed and his IGF 1 was literally fucking 58. ***58***

He looks like a fucking freak, dry to the bone and reps 405 on bench. So someone explain that to me.

Wow.

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[DM2000]

Great thread

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[thewizkid]

This convo has gotten interesting I ran the insulin protocol they suggested in the EA video (1-2iu humilin-r with a few units of hgh and inject 4-5x per day)

I've gotten higher igf readings on half the growth not running that protocol so who knows.

just wondering, what HGH were you using and dosage?

what were the 2 different protocols?

 

[okko]

Is he using tren? Just like tren can throw off estrogen numbers I think there's a link to IGF scores as well

Right my recent experience with bloodworks while on tren : tren fucked up my liver enzymes and bilirubin hard over the normal limits and my igf1 went 100 instead of usual 180
Then on 2iu pharma gh igf1 came back at 130...

Be careful this is a sign of rhenal cholestasis : I found articles linking high bilirubin high asat alat to cholestasis and very low gh to igf1 conversion is a published consequence of cholestasis

Just search Google scholar on this

Stopping tren now I I'll see how long it will take to get back to normal... Stupidly I did tren enanthate...

Just an advice : do bloodwork!! I am feeling great on tren no side I could tell except for mild nausea when I don't eat for a while


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[okko]

Yeah, 4-500 tren ace. Only thing i can give credit too also. Ive seen other ppl have these issues while on tren/deca also. I think it screws the # but not the effect. Trust me, this bitches IGF isn't 58.

I don't think the number are wrong I understand tren leads to abnormal e2 reading which is the case with the lab that do my bw
Dose dependently so 2x more tren 2x more e2 reading
But e2 and tren are very similar molecule
Igf1.... Nothing close

There are plenty of articles linking cholestasis to very low igf1 conversion by the liver
And tren to even lethal or close to lethal case reports of bodybuilder liver cholestasis
Only injectable linked to this I think
Due to double bonds which have same effects as 17a methylation...

All published data on scholar Google

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