New to Juice and dont want to kill me self

[5F00ter]

Ok guys here it gos. I have been an avid to say the least bodybuilder for the last 4 and a half years I am now 24. Though my strenght has increased dramaticly as well as my physical stature I am the classic carb sensitive endomorph who for the love of all things holy can't loose the extra padding surrounding my frame. I am now about 265 and 6'2 almost 6'3. My BF % hovers around 15%. My diet is good, but it could always be better, right? Supplements im taking HMB, CLA, Tribulus, GNC Multi, ZMA, Creatine, Whey Protien, Muscle Maker, Fish Oil Compound, Chromium, Arginine, and Glutamine. The usual one and a half grams of protien per pound of body fat and all that good stuff.

Thats the backround. Ok So I want to loose the wieght without comprimsing too much size. I have been told Wini is the perfect thing for me and that the 50mg pills would be fine. I just have questions about; Is this the right pick for me? How long will it take? How do I take it (How long)? Do I need to take anything with it or stop taking any of the above? How much should I increase my water if any? I drink about 2 gallons a day.

When I'm done with this can you reccomend any for growth after my cutting for I have to order a certain dollar amount anyway. I was thinking tes and deca just becasue I have heard good things, but money isn't that big of an issue an I have heard HGH is increadable and have some BBuilder friends that swear by it, but I also heard it is really volatile and I should wait till I'm a little older. Sorrry to be such a nube with this, but I heard its beeter to ask than not.


Thanks in advance for your help guys....

 

[keepittous]

info

Ok Bro, you need to drink at the most 1 gallon of water for starters. You are probably peeing every 20 min, and your body is holding a ton of it also. How much does a gallon of water weigh around 9lbs? Thats a lot of water weight.
As for the winny if its pill take 30mg and work your way up to around 70-100mg. every day. If its injectable 100mg every other day. Get rid of all the stuff that will make you hold all the extra water. Ephrida will also pull some of the water out of you. You will notice a big difference just from loosing the water.

 

[xcelbeyond]

Your first (virgin) cycle is going to be your best (or worst). What you are proposing - it WILL be your worst.

If your goal is to loose BF, which it should be BEFORE you start any cycle, then it's gonna be by DIET - WITH OR WITHOUT juice.

Post your EXACT daily diet and workout and we can help you with that. Don't even think about wasting your first go-around with an oral-only cycle.

 

[Coopie]

Here's my .02 cents...

First of all, I recommend you spend some more time on the Beginner's Forum. That forum is specifically to the questions/concerns of a beginner, and it's your best resource for fast and accurate information.

Second, based upon your presumption that Winny is "perfect for you" and that you'd follow that up with Test and Deca, I'd say you're FAR from being knowledgable enough to put any substances into your body. I'm not knocking you bro - it's a learning curve - but before you take the step of becomming an "enhanced" athlete, the RESPONSIBLE thing to do is to gain as much education as possible. That's why you're here and I commend you for that!

So, to answer your question...

1. See above, and
2. No, do not take Winny. Test should be the base of any cycle you run. You'll most likely never get the type of gains that your FIRST cycle will grant you, so don't waste the opportunity by not planning ahead.

C

 

[xcelbeyond]

If its injectable 100mg every other day.

FYI
Even injectible winny has a "short" half life. Doing EOD as you suggest would result in very high fluctuations in blood levels. 50mg ED is pretty standard with injectible and if your "real serious" it's 25mg 2x ED

 

[Coopie]

XCEL'S RIGHT...

Give us some more info and we'll try to provide feedback!

 

[5F00ter]

Here it b

Thanks for you guys help here, I have never found aplace like this in all my years so far, and again I am sorry if I sound like an idoit about this but I am digesting as much information as I can and as fast as I can. I keep track of everyting I eat and every routine so reproducing will be easy. My meals each day are almost identical (in numbers) so I'll post my average and than I'll post routine after it. Ooh and about cutting some, I have lost 25 punds since I was a 38 waist in December and I am now down from 288 to 257 and a comfortable 34 waist (weighed today). Just got back from the gym too an dmy bf % was 11 the first test 15 the next and 13 the one after that. It was the machine u hold in your hands, dont knwo the name but thought u guys would. Before each workout I take one ripped fule pill as well as drink a 200mg ABB Drink, so over 250mg. I read in someones post I should cut down from 2 gallons of water a day, so you can put me down at about a gallon now..hehe. I've been reading posts and you guys say to be as detailed as poss so sorry I keep reediting this but no one has looked yet I believe anyway. I spend aprox 2 hours each day in the gym lifting than the cardio I do is at the end NEVER before. I also get at least 9 hours of sleep a night, don't ever drink, and usually try to take a nap each afternoon after work is finished.

Breakfast

1 Muscle Milk 400 Calories 1 Fat Gram 35 Grams Protien 65 Carbs

1 1/2 Cups High Fiber All Natural Cereal 180 1 17 36

1 Cup Orange Juice 110 0 2 26


Mid Breakfast

EAS Low Carb Power Bar 200 4 26 4

"Gel" Amino Snack 80 0 0 2


Lunch

3 8oz Chicken Breasts 600 18 110 0

2 Cups Green Beens 217 3 5 13

1 Cup Rice 220 5 6 50


Mid Lunch

"ON" Whey Protien Shake 370 4 64 7
With One Banana and cup
of Strawberrys


Dinner

Low fat Chili w/ Low fat Chesse 400 12 24 35

Cup of Fat Free Milk


Before Bed


1 Muscle Milk 400 1 35 65




Now the Routine (Dont kill me to much on it)

I do cardio 3 to 4 times a week for about 30 minutes. Plus I have a stationary bike at home I ride whenever I can. I don't count that as exercise though, its too easy.

Even though I am listing a muscleon a certain day, it varys each week as well ass some of the exercises just to keep "shocking" my muscles.

Monday - Legs

Squats 10/135 8/225 6/315 4/405
Leg Prs 10/865 8/920 6/1020 4/1155
Machine Hammer Curl 10/110 8/130 6/150
(Note I work my calves and bi-ceps twice sometimes three times a week and throw them in between on rough days)
Mac Inner Quad 10/150 8/170 6/190
Mac Outer Quad 10/150 8/170 6/190
(I have Sciatica and PT said I have to include these.)
Leg Curl 10/115 8/135 6/155
Leg Extension 10/135 8/175 6/215
Alternating Dumbell Curl 10/45 8/55 6/65
Barbell Incline Lunge 8/95 8/115 8/135

Tuesday - Chest

Incline Dumbell Press 10/70's 8/90's 4/110's
Flat Smith Press 10/225 10/275 4/315 3/335 2/355 3/335 4/315 8/185
Super Decline Smith 10/225 8/315 6/335 4/405
One Leg Seated Calve Raises 10/90 10/90 10/115 12/70
Cable Free Motion Fly 10/70 8/100 6/110 Drop set
Standing One Leg Calve Raise 10/50 10/50 10/50
Dips 3 sets of/25 Dont do as many as pull ups cause my triceps are huge
Than Abs

Wednesday - Back

Deadlift 10/135 8/275 6/335 4/405
Smith Up right Row 10/135 8/185 5/225
One Arm Row 10/70 8/120 6/140
V-Bar Pull Down 10/150 8/165 6/220 Drop Set
Wide Grip Row 10/160 7/185 6/160
Pull Ups 5 sets of/25

Thrusday - Arms

Hammer Curl 10/45 8/55 6/65
Incline Bar Tri Xt 10/90 8/105 6/120
Concen Curl 10/45 8/55 6/65
Behind Hd Dumb Raises 10/95 8/105 6/120
Partial Prone Curl (Lying over a bench) 10/35 8/45 4/55
Tri Cep Press Down 10/70 8/80 6/90 4/120
Cable Curl (Superman's) 10/60 8/70 6/80 4/100
ABS

Friday - Shoulders

Standing Shoulder Press
Lateral Dumb Raise
Barbell Shrugs
Front Bar Raise
Lying Upright Row
Cable outer Delt
Dumbell Shrugs

That be it. Please if you have time pass along some of your wisdom on my routine so that I can make it better. If your reading this you took the time to look it over and I thank you very much in advance for any advice that you guys have for me. Also I read that I Shouldn't waist first go around on oral, I just have never injected my self with anything so I was going the way I could least screw things up. I do have a reliable contact for whatever I need, so I will listen up to you guys and do some more research on what you say than go ahead and get started.

Guess just for shits and giigles I also put supplements

8 Tribulus Tessterus
4 HMB
6 CLA
4 Fish Oil
1 Ripped Fuel
1 ABB Extreeme Ripped Caffenie Drink
2 GNC Multi Vitamens
2 Zinc MAgnesium Aspertate

THe Muscle Maker Muscle Milk I drink has like a book of stuff in it, arginine, chromium and like 50 other things beside protien if you want I can alos list but it would take a while.

I read BIG A's Article on for Beginers. I had always been told that over one and ahlf grams of protien per pound of body fat could be toxic. Five hundred seems like alot could you guys comment. Also the list of "additives" for a beginer seems well really advanced to me, http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1158. So I should really start off my first cycle with all of that. I dont mean to sound like a simpleton.

 

[5F00ter]

Why u guys are here

While you guys are helping me, when I'm working out, in my right for arm I get a pain that shoots down my arm likie a shin splint any ideas?

 

[Crowler]

Ok Bro, you need to drink at the most 1 gallon of water for starters. You are probably peeing every 20 min, and your body is holding a ton of it also. How much does a gallon of water weigh around 9lbs? Thats a lot of water weight.
As for the winny if its pill take 30mg and work your way up to around 70-100mg. every day. If its injectable 100mg every other day. Get rid of all the stuff that will make you hold all the extra water. Ephrida will also pull some of the water out of you. You will notice a big difference just from loosing the water.

I don't agree that 1 gallon is the very most you need to drink. If I let my intake dip down to a gallon my piss starts getting yellow instead of a nice clear color. I don't do a physically demanding job, I am in A/C all day and don't do any cardio.

Some people just need more than others.

 

[xcelbeyond]

WTF - 1-1/2 pound of Chicken at ONE meal! Where are you getting your numbers? Is that raw weight or cooked weight? At raw, it should be 158 grams protein. Cooked is 213 grams! Check out http://www.nutri-facts.com/index.php

I believe in trying to distrubute protein closer to same amounts throughout the day. IMHO you can't really makeup protein amounts in one meal.

I didn't really study your program to a great depth but it made me tired just reading it. I haven't done that type of training (for adding mass) since prior to around 1994. In other words, after switching to a higher intensity type of program, I gained 14 pounds of muscle in less than 4 weeks at the age of 41- and I was clean.

You have like a shin splint in your forearm. When that has happened to me, I just avoid exercises that really bother it - a PAIN in the ass!

 

[5F00ter]

ALL aboves

Ok, well the chicken, sounds crazy but I grill up a but load. I have a training log and it gives me the nutrition ifo I am using here. That is after cooking wieght. I loves me some chicken, hehe.

As far as my other question, I think I answered it. In the latest Muscle and FIction they talk about that pain and how doing curls and bending wrist forword can casue it.

Lastly, the question that started this tread, I still have not answered. I read big 's beginner article and how tess should be first along with a bunch of other stuff, I did understand it, but it seems really exteme, to me, for my first time. Could anyone comment...

As for the water, yeah im steady at about a gallon and a half now.

Thanks Again

 

[xcelbeyond]

I'd say 400mg or maybe 500 because of your size test a week (androgen).

Then add in an "anabolic" - anavar or d-bol (d-bol is much cheaper). 25-30mg ED divided into 3 dosages - like every ~8 hours.

Have enough anastrozole or letrozole on hand to take daily, but only if necessary. If your nipples start feeling tingly or sensitive, take about 1/2 tab ED. If that doesn't do it, up to 1 tab.

Here is an example:

wk 1-10: 400-500mg test cypionate or enanthate
wk 1-4: 30mg d-bol
wk 8-10 30mg anavar
wk 11-12 50mg winny ED

Begin PCT 3 day after you stop taking the winny. Make sure you have all the PCT stuff (and EVERYTHING else) on hand before you start.

 

[5F00ter]

XCEL

Thanks man, I really apprieciate all the help that you and everyone else has given this newb and shed light on the feeble amount of knowledge I truly had on something I was about to jump headstrong into. Thanks alot, I feal more comfortable now with what im doing and how to do it. Thanks again, hopefully some day I can return the favor some how.




Oooh and side noit. I found the DC, workout and I am gonna start that next week, I hope. Hehe, again thanks to all members.

 

[coolbreezendez]

Do you understand PCT and how it works?

 

[5F00ter]

PCT

I havent got a clue as far as PCT. I do everything else though. Thanks to you gents I have extensive information on all but that, so if you want to take the time to enlighten me, I would be again more than apprieciative. Thanks in advance for like the fifth time, hehe.

 

[xcelbeyond]

Here's an anrticle on Clomid PCT - not the only method but a very basic one: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1172

Here's another on post cycle: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320

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